People are so ignorant these days of Lordship Salvation...

For what it is worth, if you have the MacArthur study Bible check the notes re Lot in Genesis 19.

Downright free grace.

 

I think you are jumping the gun here. What do you believe Jesus meant when he said "not worthy"

 

The Friberg's Anlex: strictly bringing up the other beam of the scales, equivalent; (1) of things in relation to other things corresponding, comparable, worthy (AC 26.20 ); of price of equal value (RO 8.18)"

So, not deserving of. We are not deserving of the name "Christian" (little Christ) if we do not dedicate our all to Him, even unto the possible death of the cross. We are commanded to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice in Rom. 12:1-2, written to believers.

 

Great, when does this need of ours to be worthy begin?

 

The Holy Spirit was speaking of the visible church when Paul wrote 2 Corinthians 11:2-3. It is the Episcopalians and Presbyterians who have a mixed church and look to an 'invisible' pure church at the Last Day. It is the duty of Pastors and elders to keep the church as pure as possible. If the Church is the body of Christ, then it is shameful for that body to have a diseased limb.

'Therefore put away from yourselves the evil person' (1 Corinthians 5:13). 'Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition' (Titus 3:10).

Amen!

 

At salvation. At that time we are made able to surrender our life to Christ. Until we are saved, we are rotten to the core, completely sinners. Without being regenerated we cannot surrender to Christ's Lordship. We can only become as a little child (Mark 10:15, paidion, baby or toddler) and lean on Him, trusting Him for salvation.

I was saved at age 4, and dedicated my life to Christ at age 16 under the preaching of Evangelist Bud Lyles, from Rom. 12:1-2. I have never looked back.

Back in the day there was no one preaching or teaching a doctrine of LS. I never heard of it until 1972 when I took a class from Arend ten Pas at BJU, who wrote a pamphlet about it in 1978, which MacArthur referenced in his book. LS is a new doctrine.

What was preached when I was growing up was called dedicating your life to the Lord. No one preached that you did this at salvation.

 

There is a problem with this. What else can we not surrender to? Can we not surrender to the cross?

So from 4 to 16 you were not worthy?

 

So could you just answer my question?

As much as I would absolutely love to come visit your fellowship, that opportunity is not open at this time. So in the meantime, a simple answer would be much appreciated.

Here is the question again:

Martin, I would ask one question: what does the wheat represent? In contrast to the Tares?


God bless.

 

Indeed Martin, I wholeheartedly agree. Although I disagree with much of LS I believe each local church needs a pastor with a heart of gold who is a spiritual healing physician and not a judge, jury and hangman.

2 Timothy 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.


HankD

 

John, I would ask you the same question posed to Martin:

I would ask one question: what does the wheat represent? In contrast to the Tares?

Secondly, is there an application in this Age, meaning, does the truth spoken by Christ to the disciples have a direct correlation to the Church?


God bless.

 

I'm not John of Japan but FWIW I will go out on the proverbial limb an give my answer to your inquiry and wait for the incoming:

Jesus gives the answer.
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Jesus did not use the word church because technically speaking a local church in all probability does not contain only those who names are written in heaven.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Therefore and IMO, the sum total of all who name Christ as Lord (worthily or not including the cults) is therefore called the kingdom of heaven on earth - IMO of course. But there will be the Great Separation.

The end result of Matthew 13 is the Great Separation of the wheat from the tares and the fiery judgement upon the tares (Tribulation?) so (again IMO) it is safe to assume that Matthew 13 runs the course of the "times of the gentiles".

HankD

 

Bingo.

The wheat contrasts those who are not genuine, though distinguishing them from the genuine is difficult. And I agree we have to distinguish between the application of this parable under Law and in this Age.

We can absolutely make application of the wheat and the tares to this Age, and the contrast is still that which is genuine with that which is false but appears genuine.

When Christ sent out His disciples He did not allow them to go to the Gentiles and Samaritans and we consider why this would be the case. My answer would be because Christ's foremost purpose in ministry was as the Messiah of Israel, and because the Gospel of Christ was yet a Mystery not meant to be revealed at that time, the Kingdom in view is primarily in regards to that promised to Israel. That is a real Kingdom, and it will be fulfilled, because God has made promise unto His people. But, we do not confuse that Kingdom with the Kingdom in which Christ states that the least shall be greater than he which of men there arose no greater, that is, John the Baptist.

Doesn't mean that John was not a part of that spiritual Kingdom of God in which all genuine believers have always been a member of, nor does it mean that the "least" in view will actually dwell in that physical Kingdom. What it does mean, though, is that there is a genuine nature of believing, and a false, and the false can appear to be identical to that which is genuine.


God bless.

 

I like your view Darrell.

HankD

 

Certainly. Matthew 13:38. 'The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.'

It's a good time to visit Britain just now. The exchange rate is in your favour. I have kept the answer nice and simple for you.

 

:( Then shame abounds:Notworthy

 

No. The Bible doesn't put it that way. According to the Bible it is offering a living sacrifice.

I was immature and learning obedience, though I had not made a conscious decision to do whatever God wanted me to.

But why are you making this personal?

 

Here is a practical illustration of what I have been saying in this thread.

This morning I was just in an ordination council for a young man who was saved after ten years as a drug addict. The way he put it in his testimony, two seconds after he was saved he prayed, "Dear Jesus, if you will take a way my drug addiction I'll do whatever you want me to." God miraculously took away the addiction so he's had not cravings whatsoever since, and now he is planting a church.

Salvation comes first. This gives the sinner a new nature and makes it possible for him, by the grace of God, to surrender to God's will.

To put it Biblically, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20). We are able to live the Christ life through Christ living in us, and only through that. The Christ life, the surrendered life, is only possible because Christ lives in the believer starting at salvation.

 

OK Jesus said if you do not take up your cross and follow me you are not worthy. You are either worthy or not worthy. During that time what was your status.

I am just responding to your posts. You used yourself and your story. I am just inquiring how you are applying this scripture to your own life.

 

Okay, sure, if you want to go down that route, I was not worthy. Still am not. But I kept my word to the Lord Jesus Christ and went literally to the ends of the earth for His sake, to the other side of the world. I would be willing to die as a martyr for the cause of Christ, which is what "Take up your cross" means: be willing to die for Christ.

Are you worthy?

 

What do you believe Jesus meant by worthy?