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Featured Perishing without having ever heard the gospel they end up in....

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Agent47, Jan 27, 2017.

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Billions who live and die without any exposure to the gospel, where do they spend eternity?

  1. Lake of fire

    6 vote(s)
    54.5%

  2. Heaven

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%

  3. I don't know

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%

  4. It's a mystery

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  5. They get a second chance to receive the gospel before judgement

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  6. I don't care

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Not sure if this has been addressed before so please forgive me if it is repetitive.

    Coming from Kenya where Christianity is less than 200 years young, and where vast parts of the country are yet to hear the gospel,this question is for ever coming up in Christian circles. My great grandparents were not Christians in any sense.

    I wish to receive your views on this based on your current beliefs and understanding.

    My objective is not to belittle anyone but to learn, and understand how diverse theological frameworks deal with it. So beyond voting I'd appreciate some brief rationale for your choice. You may explain your choice if it is not among what I have given.

    Thank you
     
    #1 Agent47, Jan 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    If this is actually the case, what is the cause of it?

    'Exposure to the gospel' is not the determining factor of one's eternal destiny.


    Under the Mosaic Covenant, was 'exposure to the law' ever the determining factor of one's eternal destiny?

    My answer to the question, 'where do they spend eternity'; God knows those who are His, and stand they will in the judgement.
     
    #2 kyredneck, Jan 27, 2017
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  3. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I think the Bible would support a position that all in such a situation are damned.

    That does create some thorny apologetic issues, admittedly.
     
    #3 StefanM, Jan 27, 2017
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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Citation?
     
    #4 kyredneck, Jan 27, 2017
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Paul addresses this in Romans. All men are justly condemned for rejecting God. God (even the Godhead) is revealed through Creation. Not knowing the gospel message, what is revealed of God is sufficient to lead to a knowledge of God's nature and grace. But all men reject this and are justly condemned.

    While we were sinners Christ died for us. We were already condemned (our future was that "second death", Hell). But God moved in such a way that we are now the product of his work in Christ, made to do "kingdom work" which God planned before hand.

    We have an example of one of these men in the Bible. He, like all men, was condemned. But from the knowledge of God that he did have, the Holy Spirit began to work. He did not have the gospel, but he wrestled with what he did have. And the Holy Spirit took Phillip and put him with this man as a witness of the gospel.

    Do you see the difference? Scripture never presents people as being condemned out of a failure to hear or respond to the gospel. We were already condemned AND condemned for rejecting the Light (God, Christ) before Christ was born in Bethlehem. Christ did not come to condemn but to save out of an already condemned world.
     
    #5 JonC, Jan 27, 2017
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  6. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Jon's response above addresses the point better than I could.
     
    #6 StefanM, Jan 27, 2017
  7. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Why would we even go around calling ourselves Christians if ' God knows who are his'? This sounds escapist

    Of course he does, so the question is, are they among his?
     
    #7 Agent47, Jan 27, 2017
  8. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Wonderful, eloquent but so what? Where do they end up?

    Reason I brought up the gospel aspect is because as Christians we generally believe the gospel has the power to save (ignore diverse Ordos salutis for now). There also appears to be condemnation for those rejecting the gospel. This class of humanity have not had such privilege.
     
    #8 Agent47, Jan 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  9. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Where do they end up?
     
    #9 Agent47, Jan 27, 2017
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    All I wanted was a simple citation from the bible that undeniably proves that all who have not been 'exposed to the gospel' are damned eternally. Jon's response contains no such citation. :)
     
    #10 kyredneck, Jan 27, 2017
  11. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    No idea.
     
    #11 StefanM, Jan 27, 2017
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  12. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Romans chapter 10? It is more implicit than explicit, though.
     
    #12 StefanM, Jan 27, 2017
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The better question would be, 'Are His among them'?
     
    #13 kyredneck, Jan 27, 2017
  14. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Thank you.

    But permit me to ask. Is it that you find the scriptures silent or ambiguous on this, or you have not given it a hard thought?
     
    #14 Agent47, Jan 27, 2017
  15. Agent47

    Agent47 Active Member
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    Regardless, what is your answer?
     
    #15 Agent47, Jan 27, 2017
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Actually, the text is pretty explicit on how to be 'saved'. But 'saved' from what?

    1 Brethren, my heart`s desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved. Ro 10

    Was Paul's prayer here for all Jews to be saved from hell?
     
    #16 kyredneck, Jan 27, 2017
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ....what was the question again?
     
    #17 kyredneck, Jan 27, 2017
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Once again, if this is actually the case, what is the cause of it?
     
    #18 kyredneck, Jan 27, 2017
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God will make sure those whom will get saved by the Cross will hear the message, radio.satellite/tv/missionary etc!
     
    #19 Yeshua1, Jan 27, 2017
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Citation?

    :D
     
    #20 kyredneck, Jan 27, 2017
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