Apparrantly not if believers here are discussing their differences of opinion, all the while saved by Jesus.
Poll concerning Creation(ism)
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ReformedBaptist, Jun 9, 2008.
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Literal, 6-day creation - young earth/universe.
68 vote(s)76.4% -
Gap Theory
5 vote(s)5.6% -
Progressive Creationism
9 vote(s)10.1% -
Theistic Evolution
8 vote(s)9.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Just like God doesn't completely reveal many things. As Paul says we look through a mirror dimly, we don't understand all the mystery of God's ways and that should be okay with us. Creation is one of those things. We shouldn't condemn people who hold a different view. It isn't something we can know for certain, but we can have faith in how God has revealed Himself.
Frankly the language of the Hebrew is not a crystal clear as others have said and the Bible isn't a science textbook. You want some crazy unclear langauge look at the first book of Bible and the last book fo the Bible. Revelation is written in some of the most confusing Greek out there, it is actually mightily different in form and function than the rest of the NT.
I think it's okay for God to not reveal everything. We have lots of stuff we are to believing in faith and not know in knowledge. I'm okay with that.
Why can't we stop saying, that just because a good brother in Christ has a serious question about the nature of creation (but doesn't deny that God created) is denying God's Word. When we do this we take the Bible and add it as a divine figure in the Trinity (usually after we remove the Holy Spirit.) Why must we constantly be telling people if you don't read it the same way I do than you're wrong?
Creation is not a knowledge thing, it is a faith thing. I weep when someone questions another Christian's faith and salvation when they have serious, and legitimate, questions about a confusing set of passages. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
What do you use to interpret scripture?
Archeologist found the city of Jericho? Is this faulty? Or is science only faulty when it doesn't agree with the bible. More to the point. Is science only faulty if it disagrees with what you believe about the bible?
For instance Mormons (I puposely picked a heretical group) believe that Jesus apeared to a civilization in the america's that came from Isreal. There is no evidecnce of this no data. Science evidence says this is not true. Is science evidence wrong?
You and I beleive God's word is reliable. But you and I differ on what that may mean.
There is a danger in what you state. Science can and does promote the scriptures such as the qumran find. Does scripture have to be translated in such a way that agrees with what you believe? I mean look at the multitudes of christian churchs agreeing disagreeing on about every issue. Surely the Holy Spirit is not the author of all this discord is it? Can Science lead us to the truth. I believe so. Can it be used to understand scripture. Sure. Will it lead me away from Jesus. No.
Now scientist can be wrong in the conclusions they draw or they can hinder true science but thats not the methods fault. It's the scientist and their biasis that make the error. It then is not based on fact and build upon a wrong premise. What if issues were built on the right premise? What would the conclusions be? -
Therefore it makes it a secondary issue...
Only issues that deal directly with Salvation is primary issues.
And BTW, I believe in a literal 6 day creation...
Those 6 days does not establish the Gospel.. The perfection of Adam, the fall of Adam.. is the closest we can come to injecting the Gospel into Genesis 1.
And one does not need to believe that God created it in 6 literal days to believe that through Adam all sin came. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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The same way Creation was observed by a Trustworthy source, then wrote a book to explain it to finite man. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Fair enough. Let me make myself more clear. The conclusions that is reached by the secular scientists is faulty regarding scripture because they start out with the premise that there is no God. This is the premise of evolution. The sad part is Christians are grabbing hold of these conclusions based on this ungodly (therefore faulty)premise and trying to mix God into to it. Which is like trying to put an elevator in an outhouse. What I meant was that the conclusions of these faulty premises are not to be used to interpret scripture
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I can think of several off hand, some who I know personally, who are fine Christian people but believe differently about the nature and role of creation. In reaching this conclusion they began at faith and used that faith to understand their reasons for belief.
Fides quaerens intellectum -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Jews didn't write the bible so it lines up with their current understanding. God moved via the Holy Ghost/Spirit upon Godly men to write it. God said there are 4 corners not man, even though it was a sphere. As I stated also we today still make the statement of there being four corners or points. Do we still believe in a flat earth? No, we understand the language to refer to the 4 points of the compass. -
Literally simply means we take it as the context directs us to. We take it for what it is literally (or truly) saying it is to be. -
I believe in the literal 6-day creation, young universe. If it isn't true in the Genesis account, how would I know what to believe? I take it as it is in the Bible. I know B. B. Warfield and Charles Hodges didn't and Scofield went with the gap to go along with the old earth, but I disagree with these smart men. Darwin, Huxley , Lyell and others from their camp aren't go to cause me to twist the Scriptures.
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Revmitchell: //Mans science is faulty and ever changing//
IMHO you understand neither 'man', 'science', nor 'faulty'.
Here are the Axioms whereby 'science' was logically formed:
In the beginning God created the Universe(s) [i.e.heavens and the earth.
God is not arbitrary but predictable & unchanging - so what you observe is how His Universe works.
Obviously, if one's science then says "There ain't no God" - that 'science' is logically faulty - you just cannot logically contradict your axiom(s). -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I agree with MP on this one...Which is why one of my Science profs said that it can never be proven that God does not exist.
Science is a tool to understand the the natural.
Faith is the tool to understand the supernatural.
If Faith is involved in Science, it is no longer Science..
And if Science is required for faith, it is no longer faith.
Science cannot disprove the existence of God because in order to set up a controlled experiment one would have to have somewhere that God is not present... which is incompatible with the very meaning of God.
At the same time, and for the same reasons, Science can never prove there is a God.
When a "scientist" says there is no God, they are basing that statement on faith, and not science.... and is not really upholding their dogma of only making conclusions on observable facts.
So a true scientist will never say there is no God... it can't be proved.. it can't be observed.. There is no way to even conduct the experiment... -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
To my knowledge no one has even brought up the crazyman Richard Dawkins (a man whom most scientists of any stripe have walked away from.) The major subject here is how faithful Christians can disagree over this issue and remain faithful to God. To paint those who disagree with you as Dawkins' lovers is a wrongheaded argument completely. :)
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