The very nature of Preterism means that history and Scripture support this view. This is not about a worldwide event, but was localized to Jerusalem and the surrounding area. Nero didn't simply kill those he didn't like. Domitian may have exiled people to nearby islands, but that doesn't mean that Nero didn't also send people into exile. I did know that Patmos wasn't a desert island, but I'm glad you brought that up for the sake of other readers.
The long history of Rome has no bearing on this issue. BTW, Julius was the first Caesar. This is about the specific history of the Jewish Wars from AD 66-70. There is plenty of strong evidence that John wrote Revelation during Nero's reign, where the evidence for the later date writing is very weak.
The "666 thing" was a very big deal. Otherwise, John wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. The history of the events described in Revelation fit the Jewish Wars perfectly. Don't you find it more than coincidence that the Jewish Wars lasted 42 months? While you could associate 666 with other guys throughout history (e.g. Mussolini, Hitler, even Reagan), this specifically pointed to Nero. On the one hand, you say that many Roman names added up to 666, but then you say that it didn't take much wisdom to use "the right system of geometrics" to get 666 to make it point to Nero. Your statements contradict each other. Anyway, John didn't say it took a lot of wisdom. He said "This calls for wisdom." Big difference.
The mark of the beast was during Nero's reign. However, it wasn't a physical mark like a tattoo. The Beast from the earth was Apostate Israel. The "great tribulation" was the Jewish War. I believe the events from Rev 20:7 onward, including the two beasts being cast into the Lake of Fire, are future events.
The Beast was in power when Jesus "came" in judgment in AD 70, but this is not the same as the 2nd Advent. To reiterate what I said earlier, the Beast of the Sea was Rome, and the Beast of the Earth was Apostate Israel. Since you haven't disproven anything I've said, you can't make the claim that the Partial Preterist case has ever lost - except to your own satisfaction.
Poll: Was Nero the "beast/antichrist"?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, Apr 19, 2019.
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Yes, Nero was the "beast/antichrist".
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No, Nero was NOT the "beast/antichrist".
78.6%
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Many Reformed, Lutheran, English Baptist. Methodists believe the papacy is the Antichrist. Also Calvin and Luther included Islam. Clarence Larkin says the Jesuits launched "futurism" that placed a gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks to make Antichrist yet future, to take the heat off of the pope which happened as planned with the advent of Dispensationalism.
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The Jesuit Origins of Futurism
“The “Futurist School” interprets the language of the Apocalypse “literally,” except such symbols as are named as such, and holds that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet “future” and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of “Daniel's Seventy Weeks.” This view, while it dates in modern times only from the close of the Sixteenth Century, is really the most ancient of the three. It was held in many of its prominent features by the primitive Fathers of the Church, and is one of the early interpretations of scripture truth that sunk into oblivion with the growth of Papacy, and that has been restored to the Church in these last times. In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century, with the Jesuit Ribera, who, actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the “Antichrist,” and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and that among Protestants. It is the most largely accepted of the three views. It has been charged with ignoring the Papal and Mohammedan systems, but this is far from the truth, for it looks upon them as fore shadowed in the scriptures, and sees in them the “Type” of those great “Anti-Types” yet future, the “Beast” and the “False Prophet.” The “Futurist” interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book.” Dispensational Truth; pg. 5 Clarence Larkin -
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ROFL!
You just won't give up that unprovable false view! You're fighting Scripture & history, not me. I don't make that stuff up; I present it as written
As a partial pret, you agree Jesus hasn't yet returned. Well, that means the beast hasn't come either, as Scripture says he will send his army to fight Jesus. Thus, Jesus will return when the beasts are here, simple as THAT!
The beast from the earth plainly will be a MAN. How can a nation perform miracles? And JESUS said the trib will be the worst disaster in history. The 66-70 AD war is minor compared to the NAZI HOLOCAUST!
Nations are NOT living things! THEY'RE ORGANIZATIONS MADE BY MEN, a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular territory. And God certainly isn't gonna destroy ISRAEL any more! (Nor was old Israel cast into the LOF, as is quite-obvious!)
Can't you see the contradictions in your stuff? It simply doesn't make sense, & all the other readers except what few prets are here can see them as well! Seems that reading too much pret garbage has warped your thinking so you don't apply COMMON SENSE to your doctrine now! I hope to give you some eye-openers, & that the HOLY SPIRIT steps in! -
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The only history that has any bearing on this is specifically the Jewish Wars of AD 66-70. We know Rome and Jerusalem are at the center of the prophecies. We know the events of AD 70 fit perfectly with what has been prophesied.
To repeat what we've said before, we will not come to an agreement because we take completely different approaches to our understanding of End Times prophecy. -
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Neither one has come yet.
There is no denying what Domitian did. However, that doesn't mean that Nero did not send John into exile to Patmos. The Bible doesn't specify how or why John was on Patmos. While the most likely reason is exile, he may have been there for another reason - maybe to witness to their inhabitants.[/quote]
More guesswork. Several Jewish authors, as well as several Christian ones, said John was exiled there.
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@robycop3 , rather than re-hash every point, I will give a simple response to all of them. It comes down to our hermeneutical method. You see many things as literal which I see as symbolic. We interpret these prophecies from entirely different perspectives.
I'm happy to discuss other topics with you, and I appreciate your insight on other questions. However, when it comes to "end times" prophecy, the only thing we agree upon is that Christ's 2nd Coming is still in our future. Unless you have something new to bring up, I am moving on. Besides, I will be out for several days after today. -
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As for Rev, it's largely a supply of the details for Jesus' other prophecies, such as that of the great trib. Yes, there's new material as well, such as the beast from the earth who will be the main beast's sidekick, the marka the beast, the two witnesses, etc. But we have the advantage of hindsight to see what symbolism there is in it represents. And it's all LITERAL things.
I will never, EVER, agree the eschatological prophecies are symbolic, especially the Olivet Discourse. Again, I have history shaped by Scripture behind my view. And Matthew 24:29-30 stand as proof texts that partial preterism is as false as full preterism! -
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God's word is mostly LITERAL. If it wasn't, there'd be no standards of faith/worship! More men would do what the authors you read did-make new definitions of Scriptural meanings to fit THEIR agendas.
Just because certain prophesied events haven't yet happened doesn't mean they WON'T happen!
We could dismiss preterism as mere ignorance if it didn't cheapen Jesus' return. Full preterism, of course, stupidly says He has already returned, but can't explain the absence of all the prophesied events accompanying His return. And partial preterism stands in defiance of Matther 24:29-30, JESUS' OWN WORDS, in which He says He will return immediately after the great trib. So, if the great trib has already occurred, WHERE'S JESUS??????
Now, I'm not trying to prove "I'm smarter than you" or anything such, but I AM trying to show you that most Scripture is LITERAL, not symbolic, and why. Knowing that fact is essential for understanding what Jesus wants from you, and being better-equipped to present the Gospel to others, and causing the skeptics among them to accept it when shown the proofs that Scripture is completely true. All that Preston, Gentry, etc. wanna do is sell boox & make $$ while tossing God's truth aside.
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