Polygamy Showdown

[Magnetic Poles]

Many of the great characters in the Bible also murdered people and committed adultery. You okay with that?

Your argument is invalid.

It isn't part of my argument. It is an observation. And it is not universally condemned in the Bible either.

The problem I have with polygamy as practiced by the FLDS is the abusive forced marriages of female children, and the casting out of male children.

 

[windcatcher]

Marrying and divorcing are not good, but it is nowhere the same as polygamy, which is being married at the same time to more than one woman. You may see both as immoral, but they are not the same.

"Serial polygamy" is an oxymoron because the meaning of polygamy is being married simultaneously to more than one wife.

I guess one is free to believe what they want...

I don't believe that God recognizes divorce, so any marriage afterward is adding another spouse. He allows divorce (that doesn't mean giving permission.... but implies his patience and his grace ) because of the weakness in humankind..... but, as Jesus said, from the beginning it was not so.

So, I consider repeated patterns of divorce and remarriage is essentially a serial polygamy: It is legitimizing multiple partners, in a series of monogomous relationships. By saying that people who have been married but can't get along, can divorce and remarry, it is like saying adultery is okay..... and we wont call it what it is because too many Christians would be offended at the naming of our sins. If we were true to the word, we would neither take marriage lightly, nor take divorce lightly..... Recognizing, that once married, any divorce would mean no remarriage .......... ever so long as our spouse lived. And if remarried, we'd recognize the weight of our acts of disobediance as a strain to our testimony, which should be to live is Christ to die is gain; but we keep 'the old man' with us and make provisions and exceptions instead of putting him away, and putting on the life of Christ to which we are called to his glory.

 

[Marcia]

It isn't part of my argument. It is an observation. And it is not universally condemned in the Bible either.

The problem I have with polygamy as practiced by the FLDS is the abusive forced marriages of female children, and the casting out of male children.

Polygamy was allowed by God for His own reasons in the Bible but never condoned or set as the pattern for marriage at all. Especially in the NT we see that it is not practiced or taught.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Polygamy was allowed by God for His own reasons in the Bible

Where does it say this? What were those reasons? Sounds like interpretation to me.

 

[windcatcher]

Polygamy was allowed by God for His own reasons in the Bible but never condoned or set as the pattern for marriage at all. Especially in the NT we see that it is not practiced or taught.

I don't know to the extent in which it was or was not practised in the times of the NT........... BUT I do agree with you that it was not taught in the NT nor was it given any recognition or mention. If it was allowed and practiced then, it certainly was not endorsed. Rather the opposite is stated ......regarding the qualifications of a deacon, the husband of one wife.

It would appear, that polygamy as practiced in the OT times, kind of served the purposes similarly to slavery which was also practiced in the OT and which had laws pertaining to the treatment and provision of and the release to freedom. It served to populate the earth, mix the gene pool (which is a scientific fact not recognized or understood in that day....as far as we know), and functioned to secure relationships for provision, protection, economy of industry and the building of strenght from family to tribe to nation. Additional wives might be added also as a practical move of alliance and bonding one nation or tribe to another by the accepting of that responsibility and producing children with kinship ties between 2 potential rivals or friends.

 

[windcatcher]

Where does it say this? What were those reasons? Sounds like interpretation to me.

As far as I know, you are correct. Polygamy was never endorsed nor am I aware of any commandment given to the practice thereof. If anything, it would seem that the definition of adultery, coupled with the seventh commandment, should have negated the practice of polygamy..... but we know the Bible doesn't indicate an end to the practice after the commandments were given to Moses and the people.

So, yes, whatever reasons I suggest in the previous post is interpretation and not scripturally discerned.

 

[Marcia]

Where does it say this? What were those reasons? Sounds like interpretation to me.

I don't know His reasons.

However, the pattern is clearly for one wife and one husband. This gives a good overview of the issue:
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/polygame.html

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I don't know His reasons.

However, the pattern is clearly for one wife and one husband. This gives a good overview of the issue:
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/polygame.html

That link misuses polygamy, a general term, as opposed to polygyny, yet talks about it being different from polyandry, which is itself a form of polygamy. It also deals with Bible verses talking about divorce and remarriage while a spouse is alive...not marrying a second spouse while staying married to the first. Again, I think it is a matter of interpretation.

 

[Marcia]

That link misuses polygamy, a general term, as opposed to polygyny, yet talks about it being different from polyandry, which is itself a form of polygamy. It also deals with Bible verses talking about divorce and remarriage while a spouse is alive...not marrying a second spouse while staying married to the first. Again, I think it is a matter of interpretation.

Thanks for reading the article.

I do think the article shows the biblical pattern is one spouse at a time. There is no example in the NT of having more than one wife (or husband) as a normal or good thing.

I was in an online debate/discussion with a Christian advocating having more than one wife several years ago. My pastor helped me on it and I used biblical arguments against it (to counter his arguments for it).

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Thanks for reading the article.

I do think the article shows the biblical pattern is one spouse at a time. There is no example in the NT of having more than one wife (or husband) as a normal or good thing.

I was in an online debate/discussion with a Christian advocating having more than one wife several years ago. My pastor helped me on it and I used biblical arguments against it (to counter his arguments for it).

If a subject interests me, I do try to read various viewpoints and keep an open mind. Remember, I am not advocating for polygamy...but just don't think there is a strong set of reasons to outlaw the practice in and of itself. Like I said, the FDLS abuse is what should be cracked down on.

 

[Spinach]

I find myself agreeing with MP on polygamy and Windcatcher on divorce/remarriage.

That said, neither is for me!!! There's only one queen in this hive!

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I find myself agreeing with MP on polygamy and Windcatcher on divorce/remarriage.

That said, neither is for me!!! There's only one queen in this hive!

Now Spinach, wouldn't you like two husbands? One cooking and one cleaning? :wavey:

 

[Jim1999]

Not every nuance or event in history is covered in the Bible. In my mind, since Paul addresses that pastors are intended to be the husbands of one wife as are deacons, there might have been an issue with polygamy along the way. It just isn't addressed as such.

On the other hand, whilst we recognize marriage under God, it is the state, country that establishes laws for marriage and even divorcement.

In Canada, polygamy is illegal, and in Canada, this is the basis for the legal charges in BC. That court will not answer to the Bible, but to the law.

I certainly do not believe in polygamy, but chapter and verse I do not have. It is, however, good for the pastor and deacon, it must also be good for the common member of the churches and for society at large. That is my opinion. If a polygamous man walked down the street with his wives in tow, I would still greet them with human and societal respect and consideration. We must not draw lines in the sand and avoid people for what they are. If Jesus could offer help to a woman facing stoning for being a woman of the night, can I do less?

I do remember a preacher in London who almost had his career cut short because he visited a "career" woman in Soho at the request of her mother. He dared to visit her at her place of employment. He was doing nothing wrong, but members of his church saw him and started the stories spreading. If that man had been maliciously dismissed from ministry, we would have lost G. Campbell Morgan!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Scarlett O.]

Nope. Many of the great characters of the Bible had multiple wives.

They weren't great because they had multiple wives....they were noteworthy IN SPITE of the fact that they had multiple wives.


There is no place in the bible that I can find where a man had multiple wives where life was not miserable for the women and for the husband.

Consider the grief of the following people:

~Abraham and Sarah (inviting Hagar into the marriage and the numerous areas of damage there)

~Jacob and Rachel (she should have been his only wife and her child his first born....ergo the favortism and misery amongst his own sons)

~Jacob and Leah (the bible says that he considered her unattractive and the bible says twice that she was hated)

~Jacob and the concubines (these women were brought in only to appease Leah and Rachel in their contest to bear the most children and Jacob's own son Rueben slept with one of these women just to spite his father who openly showed favortism)

Hannah and her husband (Hannah couldn't have children, so her husband spent a fortune on her in sacrifices...more than he spent on the sacrifices of his other wife and her children. The other wife was hurt and took it out on Hannah....viciously. The bible says that the two women were adversaries. Hannah was in such grief that she was emotional unstable. Even her husband could not comfort her and he really did try.)

David and Michal (The Bible says that Michal loved David, but doesn't say that he loved her. She risked her own life to save his by pretending that he is in bed while she sneaks him out of the window. The next time she sees him, he has other wives. She is naturally hurt and becomes bitter about it. She should have found contentment in some other part of her life, but she could not. She ended up despising David and was punished for her own pain and the wrong way that she dealt with it.)

David and Bathsheba (God grew extremely angry with David. The bible says that God was angry over what David did, not David and Bathsheba. The bible says that she wept over her husband, Uriah. God told David that He had given him everything...even's Saul's wives. He told David, "What more did you want? All you had to do was tell Me, instead of taking something that didn't belong to you." He wasn't telling David that polygamy was alright, just pointing out the fact that David was a glutton. Bathsheba was made one of the wives alright....but she lost a child. She was able to see her son become king......but saw his heart turned by multiple wives, himself.)


There's more.

You are correct. Some of the most noteworthy of men in the Bible has multiple wives.......and life was very hard because of it.

My personal opinion as to why polygamy was not overtly condemned by God was because many of these women had no place to go. A woman in Old Testament had no life....no status....no identity....no protection....no "nothing" unless a man provided it for her. Either a father, brother, or husband.

As the New Testament came along and women were considered "co-heirs" with Christ, they also gained some opportunities to take care of themselves, if need be, other than prostitution and being in a stable of wives.


In my opinion, to try and correlate the lives of men and women today with the lives of men and women in the Old Testament is not prudent. To say...."it was good enough for Jacob, so it's good enough for me" is at best, arrogant, and at worst, ignorant.

 

[Spinach]

Now Spinach, wouldn't you like two husbands? One cooking and one cleaning? :wavey:

Husbands cook and clean? Now this really does belong in the news forum. :laugh:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

:laugh:

Sure am glad you decided to stick around, Mrs. Spinach......