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Poor Old "Uncle Billy"

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Dec 30, 2017.

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  1. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    R.C. Sproul taught me this helpful diagnostic tool.

    I often ask those who appeal to "free will" as the ultimate reason to explain why they've responded positively to God's call but "uncle Billy" has not. I ask them, are you smarter than uncle Billy? Are you more humble than uncle Billy? Are you more righteous than uncle Billy? To which they know they mustn't answer in the affirmative, but they also know they must. If one isn't aware of the trap he is about to walk into, or, if he is intellectually honest, he will answer in the affirmative. He will say that something in/about him was the deciding factor in his being saved over "uncle Billy" being saved.

    Just two days ago I heard of such a case. A man said, "Yes. I believed because I had an advantage. I grew up in a Christian home so I heard the gospel preached and we read the Bible. . .". That answer, which was an honest one, inflicts a fatal wound to his own view, which has an equitable God giving all men, without exception, an equal shot at salvation.

    The wiser non-Cals here on BB understand this dilemma, which is why one of two things happen in the threads that directly expose the error of Pelagianism - Arminianism. First, as @Reformed has already pointed out, they refuse to own their position, That's when they start sounding a lot like Calvinists, or, as in the case of a few of my threads, they simply don't respond, avoiding the issue altogether.

    Why do you believe that you are saved and uncle Billy is not? Does "free will" explain it? If so, how?

    *In case you hadn't already guessed, "Uncle Billy" is a fictitious relative who has heard the gospel but remains unrepentant.
     
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You don't need responses from others on BB. You're doing just fine making up people's voices in your head.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The one who chooses to come to Christ is more humble. It wouldn't be possible to come to God any other way. The prideful do not come to God. Jesus made that clear.

    However, the question in the op is a question begging fallacy. It presumes a deterministic response is necessary but provides no evidence for it.
     
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  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Typical "I can't honestly answer the question so I will mock the questioner" response.

    We don't get much else from you these days. Why is that?
     
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  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    But God's standard is perfect humility. Are you claiming you had, as a lost man, perfect humility?
     
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  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You are conflating what I said with God's standard of perfection. I did not say I saved my self. I spoke to why I or anyone makes a choice to come to God.
     
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  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Would not John (1) understand that by not turning from the light, that the person is more righteous, more humble, smarter (in Godly attributes) then Uncle Billy?

    That those rebellious Uncle Billy’s who turn, rebuke, work against the light are in deed not righteous, not humble, and certainly ignorant (in Godly attributes) then the believers.

    By the way, is Uncle Billy’s last name “Goat?”
     
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  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    What is typical is you cannot tolerate someone to call the poor arguments of cals into questions so you intentionally make false accusations like this. I mocked no one. I suggest you look that word up. I simply called the op on its logical fallacy. That is not mocking. This debate tactic of yours is why these conversations disintegrate. You do not have the ability to have a discussion without these childish attempts. You and I are done.
     
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  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    No, I am recognizing the fact that God has one standard: perfection.

    I didn't say you did.

    Yes, you claimed to meet God's standard of humility. I question that. I seriously doubt you met, as a lost man, God standard of perfect humility.
     
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  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    I didn't make a false accusation.

    I didn't say you did.

    I suggest you look back and see who my post was addressed to. It may come as a shock to you but every post is not all about you. Is that an example of what you call "humility?"

    You don't seem to have the ability to give an honest, reasoned answer. And, again, my post was not directed to you. Every post in every thread is not all about you.

    You never engaged. And I don't blame you for turning tail and running back under the porch. When you can't answer a fairly simple question without claiming God-like perfect humility you have pretty much run out of argument. :)
     
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  11. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    I periodically unblock his posts out of curiosity to see if he has mellowed out, but no such luck. Only insults.
     
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  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    So how can he impose perfection on imperfection?
     
  13. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    Augustine answered that question some time ago:
    "O Lord, command what you will and give what you command" — St. Augustine

    Follow your thought to its logical conclusion and God would have to allow for idolatry because men are idolators.
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Again, how does he impose perfection on imperfection?
     
  15. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    See the Augustine quote: God supplies the perfection.
     
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    He is God. He can do anything He pleases. But I don't believe He "imposes" perfection on us. His Righteousness is imputed to us. Only Christ is Righteous, but His Righteousness is imputed to us that "we might be made the Righteousness of Christ in Him." :)
     
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  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    so you are relegated in a sense to but trying but never really achieving
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    No, I have, positionally, achieved, not by my own efforts but by imputation, the perfect Righteousness of Christ.

    When God looks upon me, He does not see me and my sin, but sees only the Perfect Righteousness of Christ.
     
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  19. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    If you are trying to become righteous on your own/by works of the law, yes; however, if Christ is your righteousness, you are perfect - in Him, by faith. Clothed in white. . .
     
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  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Honestly, I like sin too much to be there.
     
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