Poster on Baptist Board in the news

[paidagogos]

Steven Anderson, a poster on this board, has been allegedly beaten for asserting his Constitutional rights against ureasonable searches. Mr. Anderson is the pastor of a church in AZ. See the news store at the link below:
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95300

 

[abcgrad94]

I was under the impression that this poster was banned a long time ago.

 

[tinytim]

yep. not around anymore...

So a drug dog hit on his vehicle and he refused to get out to allow his car searched...

It seems the Border control was within their constitutional rights as defined by the supreme court.

 

[matt wade]

I agree with Tim. He doesn't get to make the call on whether the drug dogs hit on the car or not, the agents get to make that call.

Also, I've never heard of someone being tased that was cooperating with the authorities. It's real simple..cooperate and you won't have any trouble.

 

[paidagogos]

Constitutional rights as defined by the Supreme Court

yep. not around anymore...

So a drug dog hit on his vehicle and he refused to get out to allow his car searched...

It seems the Border control was within their constitutional rights as defined by the supreme court.

Although I am a very strong "law and order" as well as anti-illegal immigration guy, I still have problems with some of the powers and abuses of power that we're seeing with both homeland security and other federal agents.

Furthermore, I am uncomfortable with the Supreme Court proscibing the limits of the Constitution. It applies here but not here.

Finally, I am very much aware of the brusque and aggressive manner of this former poster. Having said all this, none of us can make the call at this distance but it does give us reason for concern that the Constitution is not an ironclad protection. On the other hand, this individual may have provoked the incident. We don't know.

 

[donnA]

I was under the impression that this poster was banned a long time ago.

He was banned, meaning he isn't a poster on this board, misleading title.

 

[paidagogos]

Correction

I was under the impression that this poster was banned a long time ago.

Yeah, I ought to have written "former poster."

 

[donnA]

Although I am a very strong "law and order" as well as anti-illegal immigration guy, I still have problems with some of the powers and abuses of power that we're seeing with both homeland security and other federal agents.

Furthermore, I am uncomfortable with the Supreme Court proscibing the limits of the Constitution. It applies here but not here.

Finally, I am very much aware of the brusque and aggressive manner of this former poster. Having said all this, none of us can make the call at this distance but it does give us reason for concern that the Constitution is not an ironclad protection. On the other hand, this individual may have provoked the incident. We don't know.

"none of us can make the call at this distance"
"We don't know."

Your right we don't know. We do know he was given orders based the dogs evidence and he refused them, they aren't going to say, well ok go on your happy merry way.

 

[paidagogos]

We don't know................

"none of us can make the call at this distance"
"We don't know."

Your right we don't know. We do know he was given orders based the dogs evidence and he refused them, they aren't going to say, well ok go on your happy merry way.

Well, we don't know if the use of force was justified. What did he say? What did he do?

A simple refusal to submit to an auto search is not necessarily sufficient grounds for the use of force. They could have resolved it in another way.

I've seen video of police tazing a guy because they thought that he didn't respond fast enough. He was no threat. Also, a guy was tazed because he was unresponsive and it turned out that he was in a dangerously low hypoglycemic state. Sometimes, some police are too quick to use force.

The bottom line that we don't know and everything else is conjecture.

 

[Salty]

Sometimes, some police are too quick to use force.
quote]

How cops are dead beacuse they waited too long to use force.

As stated before, when they tell you to do something, do it.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

How cops are dead beacuse they waited too long to use force.

As stated before, when they tell you to do something, do it.

What if the person is mentally handicapped? First, I’m all for police officers using force to protect themselves, but only when the situation calls for such force that puts the officers or publics life in jeopardy.

In my home town in a very wealthy neighborhood a doctor lived with his family that consisted of a young adult that was mentally handicapped. Most neighbors on his street knew him as he would often visit them, but he wonder off his property and found himself lost a few streets over. He approached a hose and attempted to gain entry and left. The lady of the house called the police and rightly so.

The police come upon him walking down a major road through our city. He doesn’t respond to any commands, but he isn’t acting in any threatening manner either. By then back-up arrives and they approach him, he’s still not responding, and still he isn’t threatening them. Also bystanders are now watching and some have pulled over.

In the mean time his mother is looking for him and a neighbor sees this going on and pulls over to tell the police about this boys condition…they have nothing of it. The police begin to man handle him and he become’s agitated and resists. They tase and use pepper spray in attempt to subdue him…the neighbor calls his mother and by the time she arrives to the scene…he’s unconscious on the side of the road, and the neighbor, who's also a doctor is trying to save the kids life. It's was too late...he died at the scene.

I know this is a unique situation and I feel for all involved, but witnesses have stated that this young man wasn’t acting in any threatening way and the fact that the officers disregarded a neighbor’s plea, shows that all these officers cared about was the opportunity to ruff someone up.

In XC
-

 

[webdog]

While I hate to see this happen to Anderson, how does he know the behavior of a search dog?

In Anderson's case, the pastor claims the K-9 dog made no bark or indication that his rental car was tainted with drugs, while Vik insisted to WND that the dog did alert agents to drugs, thus granting probable cause for the search.

 

[Revmitchell]

The standard for use of force is when the officer's feels threatened regardless of the mental capacity of the offender.

 

[Palatka51]

I don't remember Andersen. I would say however, that he should have heeded the officer's advice. Even if he felt that the search was unlawful. Then filed a complaint afterward.

 

[RevGKG]

Had Mr Anderson complied with the directions he was given by law enforcement none of this situation would have occurred. The video gives me the impression that he thinks he is above the law.

 

[annsni]

Honestly, whether they had cause to search or not, what was he hiding?

Of course he and his wife feel Obama is the antichrist or something - and have cursed him in public. They said on their blog "Welcome to the USSA" or something like that. They're not really happy with the government right now.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I agree with Mr. Anderson. People should not be treated that way by the police. However, I note people are treated that way by the police. At the time of the incident there is absolutely nothing* that can be done. Remember everything and act when you are away from those folks authority (which Bro. Anderson apparently did.

Our country is seriously sick with corruption in all levels of government. The rule is NOT by "one person - one vote" anymore - it is by the principle "one dollar, one vote". But this is NOT the fault of Obama -- no more than the surfer causes the big kahuna (wave).

*Note: even the old dodge of confusing the enemy by breaking out in an Unknown Tongue works no more. They will think you are an illegal alien cussing them out :-(

 

[EdSutton]

Well, I'm no great fan of Pastor Steven Anderson, to say the least (I'm kinda' runnin' short on extra TVs, these days.)

However, I'm even less of a fan of "unreasonable searches and seizures" of the 'persons' and the 'effects' of the people, without any probable cause, which, the last time I checked, was still in the U.S. Constitution, as I am able to read it.

BTW, also the last time I checked, I-8 ran East and West, and not North and South to or from, nor anywhere near the US/Mexican Border, at the location given.

And it is ridiculous, beyond the pale, when this treatment is even remotely 'justified' on the grounds that while the Border Patrol set up the initial checkpoint and stop, that it was the AZ DPS 'state boys' who forcibly extracted him from his automobile, IMO.

Ed

 

[Amy.G]

I do not endorse Mr. Anderson, but in this case I think he was treated badly. They had no probable cause to search his vehicle, which was proved after the incident when nothing was found in the car. Either the dog detected nothing and the officer lied, or the dog did detect something and is not worth his weight in dog chow since there was nothing in the car to be detected.

There are police officers who are on an ego trip and look for someone they can bully. Just because this happened to someone of questionable integrity doesn't make it any less true or deplorable.

 

[matt wade]

I do not endorse Mr. Anderson, but in this case I think he was treated badly. They had no probable cause to search his vehicle, which was proved after the incident when nothing was found in the car. Either the dog detected nothing and the officer lied, or the dog did detect something and is not worth his weight in dog chow since there was nothing in the car to be detected.

There are police officers who are on an ego trip and look for someone they can bully. Just because this happened to someone of questionable integrity doesn't make it any less true or deplorable.

Sorry...dog fires on a scent, it's probable cause. He was in a rental car. He has no idea what was in that car before he had it. Last person could have been transporting or doing drugs in the car.