Pre-tribulation rapture

Amen, Brother Ed - Preach it! :thumbs:

 

Note this is different from the eschatology of
Scofield, and Larkin, and LaHaye and Walvoord, etc.
They will say that Matthew is written to Jews and we
gentiles of the Church Age shouldn't read Matthew
that close. Nevertheless, Matthew 24:31 talks about
the same gathering of the saints (AKA: pretribulation
rapture1/Resurrection1) as does 2 Thess 2:1.

 

Amen, Brother Ed - Keep preaching it!

 

Ed, Have you read Things To Come by Pentecost? I like to know what you think about it. I'm thinking about buying it. I'm trying to get a handle on Eschatology.

 

This is NOT confused in my teaching.
Obviously I have taken all scripture and disassembled
it and re-assembled it and studied it -- 55 years!
How could I possibly recreate this process in
ten or 12 Topics?

Of course, not all of my eschatological teachings come from
John 14:1-4.l But nothing in John 14:1-4 invalidates my
eschatological teachings

 

TeeHee!
I guess it is time now to finish the presentation?

 

No, I reads a few eschatologies, read the best book by
LaHaye: HOW TO STUDY THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF,
and decided i'd do word studies and study the Bible
and let the Holy Spirit teach me.

The biggest breakthrough was the Matthew 24 stuff
just today that I resposted. Matthew 24:3 makes
it easy to understand WHat Jesus taught in the
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD).

 

The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):

But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.

But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul -- he didn't endure
to the end."

Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (LATIN: raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.

Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):

1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,

The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.

While the KJV uses "falling away" here, the
English versions before the KJV used a
form of "departure" - again, the idea of
someone leaving this world as in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Geneva Bible):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall
not come, except there come a departing first, and that
that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition,

There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.

1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invastion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Millinnial Kingdom period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Moriah north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.

But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture; they could happen
before the rapture. They do not HAVE TO
HAPPEN before the imminent pretribulation
rapture.

 

Amen, Brother Ed -- Preach it!

 

What would be the necessity of this Temple and would they be sacrificing and what type of sacrifice are we looking at here?

 

Many PTR eschatologists get way past the Scripture with
their theory of 'dispensation'. I stick with the four
scriptures:

Dispensation in the NT, KJV1769 version:

1 Corinthians 9:17 (KJV1769):
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward:
but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel
is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10 (KJV1769):
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might
gather together in one all things in Christ, both
which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3:2 (KJV1769):
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God
which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 (KJV1769):
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation
of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

The Holy Spirit hasn't shown me a lot more than is
here. I do know the Greek word being translated here
as 'dispensation' is the Greek word from which we get
'economy'.

I do know this is what the economy of God is like:

Bible Prophetic times:
'hour' = the appropriate time
'day' = the appropriate time
or '1 day' = 1,000 years
'½-week' = 3½-years
'week' = 7 years
'month' = the appropriate time
'year' = the appropriate time

Other 'economy of God facts':

the blind see
the dead live
the deaf hear
the lame leap like deer
the first is last
the last is first
Jesus Saves (totally!)
God Rules!!

 

I can hear the laughs from the Lake of Ontario as the fishes passing by laugh a lot.

 

Un-messanic Jews will build the Temple under the leadership
of the Anti-messiah.

Just after the First Persian Gulf War I was talking
(on the internet) to a
rabbinical student in New York City. I asked him what
would happen when Messiah came (he was NOT a
Messanic Jew).

Here are the three things he said:

1. Messiah will bring peace to Yisrael
2. Messiah will restart the Daily Sacrifice on Temple Mount in Hierusalem
3. Messiah will rebuild the Temple in Hierusalem

Anybody who does this will be seen by the nation
of Israel (and all world Jews) as the Messiah.
But it will really be the Anti-messiah.

I happen to know that God has a plan to save all
Yisrael (i.e. Jews):
The Anti-messiah will enter the Temple and declare himself
as god at the mid-Tribulation crisis. Millions of Jews will
see through the false Anti-messiah and BELEIVE God
has Raised Jesus from the dead & that Yeshua Ben Yoseph
of Nazareth is the Messiah - they will be saved
(same way as in athe church age, for anti-'dispernsationalists').

 

The average wind speed in Chicago, Ill, USofA is 23 Miles Per Hour.
The average wind speed in exciting central Oklahoma
is 25 Miles Per Hour. Our state song includes the line:

When the wind comes sweeping
down the PLANES ;)

 

Since we did not get an answer to this from anyone in the PTR camp--

John 14

1 ""Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
2 ""In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
3 ""If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again AND receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.[/b]

How can you possibly argue
"I will come again"
AND
"Receive you unto myself" is a reference to TWO different events??

Just HOW do you get this return of Christ to be exactly TWO events given the 100's of millions of saints that have died since then??


The ONLY thing about this text showing TWO events is

1. Christ LEAVING
2. Christ RETURNING

 

In Matt 24 we see the saints gathered to Christ AFTER the "Great Tribulation" so "I get that".

"IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days they shall..."


Matt 24
29 ""But [b]immediately after the tribulation[/b] of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and [b]they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDSOF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31 ""And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect[/b] from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


Bible says it! I believe it!

By contrast WHERE do you have a text pointing to the PRE-TRIB rapture "but immediately BEFORE the Tribulation of those days He will gather His elect from the four winds" ?? where is YOUR text??

 

What is the use of Ezekiel's Temple (Eze 41-47, Eze 48 is the land)
in the Millinnial Messinic Kingdom?

 

No use for temples on earth in the Millennium - because during the 1000 years between the first resurrection (that of the Holy and Blessed ones over whom the second death has no power) that occurs at Christ's coming (1thess 4) and the the resurrection of judgment seen in Rv 20 the saints are in heaven and the wicked are slain.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Yes, please! :thumbs:

 

Amen Brother Bob -- You are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:

To bad it blows a hole in your eschatology any
College half-back dreams of in the defensive line in front
of him.

Matthew 25:31-46 tells about the 'Throne of His Glory' Judgement,
also known as (AKA:) the Sheep & Goat Nations Judgment.
the nations left behind are nations full of sinners to be saved
during the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom.

So when will Ezekiel'sTemple (Eze 41-47) be seen on earth?