SHOWING THAT THE SCRIPTURE DOCTRINE OF PREDESTINATION SHOULD BE OPENLY PREACHED AND INSISTED ON, AND FOR WHAT REASONS
UPON the whole, it is evident that the doctrine of God's eternal and unchangeable predestination should neither be wholly suppressed and laid aside, nor yet be confined to the disquisition of the learned and speculative only; but likewise should be publicly taught from the pulpit and the press, that even the meanest of the people may not be ignorant of a truth which reflects such glory on God, and is the very foundation of happiness to man. Let it, however, be preached with judgment and discretion, i.e., delivered by the preacher as it is delivered in Scripture, and no otherwise. By which means, it can neither be abused to licentiousness nor misapprehended to despair, but will eminently conduce to the knowledge, establishment, improvement and comfort of them that hear. That predestination ought to be preached, I thus prove:-
I.-The Gospel is to be preached, and that not partially and by piece-meal, but the whole of it. The commission runs, "Go forth and preach the Gospel"; the Gospel itself, even all the Gospel, without exception or limitation. So far as the Gospel is maimed or any branch of the evangelical system is suppressed and passed over in silence, so far the Gospel is not preached. Besides, there is scarce any other distinguishing doctrine of the Gospel can be preached, in its purity and consistency, without this of predestination. Election is the golden thread that runs through the whole Christian system;
Part of an article I came across....I find this interesting....how about you?
here is the link
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/classics/absolute_predestination5.html
Preaching the whole of scripture
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, May 22, 2012.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"(1) For the humiliation of our pride and the manifestation of Divine grace. God hath assuredly promised His favour to the truly humble. By truly humble, I mean those who are endued with repentance, and despair of saving themselves; for a man can never be said to be really penitent and humble until he is made to know that his salvation is not suspended in any measure whatever on his own strength, machinations, endeavours, free-will or works, but entirely depends on the free pleasure, purpose, determination and efficiency of another, even of God alone. Whilst a man is persuaded that he has it in his power to contribute anything, be it ever so little, to his own salvation, he remains in carnal confidence; he is not a self-despairer, and therefore he is not duly humbled before God; so far from it, that he hopes some favourable juncture or opportunity will offer when he may be able to lend a helping hand to the business of his salvation. On the contrary, whoever is truly convinced that the whole work depends singly and absolutely on the will of God, who alone is the author and finisher of salvation, such a person despairs of all self-assistance, he renounces his own will and his own strength, he waits and prays for the operation of God, nor waits and prays in vain. For the elect's sake, therefore, these doctrines are to be preached, that the chosen of God, being humbled by the knowledge of His truths, self-emptied and sunk, as it were, into nothing in His presence, may be saved in Christ with eternal glory. This, then, is one inducement to the publication of the doctrine, that the penitent may be made acquainted with the promise of grace, plead it in prayer to God, and receive it as their own
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The difference is that a Calvinist cannot have the confidence an Arminian or a non-Cal does. The Arminian or non-Cal believes that God desires to save all men, therefore if a person prays to God to save them, he most assuredly will.
The Calvinist on the other hand must hope he is one of the elect. If he was not chosen before the foundation of the world, his prayers are in vain. No amount of humility will help him, no amount of prayer.
If salvation is monergistic as Calvinism teaches, why would you teach a person to pray? It would seem to be more consistent to teach folks just to go about their business, and if God has chosen to save them, he will. If you are elect, prayer is not necessary, if you are not elect, prayer is vain.
So, this article seems like a contradiction to me. -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Allow me....as Icon is not here:
I am always here to humbly instruct anyone who sincerely wants to learn :thumbs: -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterHeirofSalvation said: ↑Allow me....as Icon is not here:
This Could be you!! Examine your self Winman....and see if you indeed are in the Faith.....Lest happly you be found to fight even against God!
I am always here to humbly instruct anyone who sincerely wants to learn :thumbs:Click to expand...
A person could read this ,and examine himself according to the verses offered.
Very nice:thumbsup: If a person was honest with themselves....they might say....you know...I have not really tried to study through a good confession of faith before.....I have just opposed them in my prideful ignorance, but now I think I will give them a good look being as many have profitted from them in times past. Thanks HOS. -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
NP :thumbsup: They were not my quotes sir...the credit belongs to you :applause:
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HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite SupporterA person will not believe unless God enables him.Click to expand...
This is a consistent wrong idea, put forth by persons who do not see grace as clear as they should. They seperate calling and election from what they are elected to,and called to....which is election unto a holy life as saints who delight in God's law word.Click to expand...
What non cals seem to miss is when the cal explains that God works through means which he has ordained.Click to expand...
The Calvinist on the other hand must hope he is one of the elect. If he was not chosen before the foundation of the world, his prayers are in vain. No amount of humility will help him, no amount of prayerClick to expand...
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cr 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Those verses are in no way relevant to the statement made or posted by win...they don't contain any keywords whatsoever....If I were to be asked how one can be assured of knowing they are "elect" I might personally post a verse such as:
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
But that is because it is directly relevant to whether or not one can "KNOW" whether or not they are "elect" inasmuch as it sets clear parameters yes? -
If you preach predestination to the lost, you'll lose way over half of them. They could be thinking, "Am I not one of the elect"? "Did Jesus really die for me"? "Was my sins atoned for on the cross"?, etc.
We need to preach that through Adam man fell. Man had nothing to redeem himself with. That Jesus came, took the sin of the world upon Himself, and died, so that whosever shall believe upon Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life. You leave the message there, and see how many will understand what you preached. -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporterconvicted1 said: ↑If you preach predestination to the lost, you'll lose way over half of them. They could be thinking, "Am I not one of the elect"? "Did Jesus really die for me"? "Was my sins atoned for on the cross"?, etc.
We need to preach that through Adam man fell. Man had nothing to redeem himself with. That Jesus came, took the sin of the world upon Himself, and died, so that whosever shall believe upon Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life. You leave the message there, and see how many will understand what you preached.Click to expand... -
convicted1 said: ↑If you preach predestination to the lost, you'll lose way over half of them. They could be thinking, "Am I not one of the elect"? "Did Jesus really die for me"? "Was my sins atoned for on the cross"?, etc.
We need to preach that through Adam man fell. Man had nothing to redeem himself with. That Jesus came, took the sin of the world upon Himself, and died, so that whosever shall believe upon Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life. You leave the message there, and see how many will understand what you preached.Click to expand... -
webdog said: ↑On the flip side, if they do approach everyone with the fact Christ died for them, took their punishment for their sins without knowing for sure if He did in fact die for them, take their punishment, and give them faith, they could very well be lying to their face. Oh I no the pet answer to this, "we don't know who the elect are". Well you sure better before you feed them what amounts to the cruelest, dishonest "good news" they will ever hear.Click to expand...
BTW, as to your post? :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: -
convicted1 said: ↑Whether one believes in "FW" or "DoG" doesn't add up to a "hill of beans" to the lost. We need to explain to the lost that they are lost, lost due to their sins. That Jesus is the remedy for their sins. In Him, and Him alone, is where they can find peace for their souls.
BTW, as to your post? :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:Click to expand... -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporterwebdog said: ↑Agreed...that is why our doctrine is the only one where we can truthfully approach the lost with the true "Good News" without an asterisk attached.Click to expand...
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HeirofSalvation said: ↑Agreed, this is one of the reasons I cannot embrace Calvinism...when sharing the "gospel" as they see it....they seem to be forced to say things to them that they don't necessarily believe to be true. Or they simply cannot tell them the WHOLE truth. They only can honestly claim that God Might have a desire for their salvation, that Christ Might have died for them, and there is a possibility that Grace and the forgiveness of sins is available. God Might love them (at least in any intelligible or meaningful sense). And the correct answer to the question "what must I do to inherit eternal life" is simply....nothing, nothing whatsoever, if God intends for you to be saved, you will be. "Do I have to believe in or accept Christ as my Saviour or repent of my sins to be born again?" correct answer: NO.Click to expand...
Two things made me second guess what I was being fed:
1. During one sermon, the powerpoint notes read in big letters JESUS LOVES YOU! I immediately thought, how can this be true? Surely not eveyone in this service was the "elect", after all "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated". This is a lie being shown to those who are not "elect"!
2. How do I know my family is the "elect"? If God does not love my family as He loves me, you mean that I love my family more than God does? A God who IS love?!? I would give my life for my children and wife...but God didn't?!? -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Hos
you said;
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cr 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Those verses are in no way relevant to the statement made or posted by win...they don't contain any keywords whatsoever....
If you understand them...they do....lets look again.....
Quote:
The Calvinist on the other hand must hope he is one of the elect. If he was not chosen before the foundation of the world, his prayers are in vain. No amount of humility will help him, no amount of prayer
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The calvinist is already thankful that God has made Himself known as Lord and Saviour.His confidence comes from the covenant oath and promises given to all who will trust and obey, by a God given faith. Having the Spirit, he is now able to believe in the promises of God.1 cor2:14-15
Hos...what you miss here...and in other places....is that the Spirit allows the elect sheep to welcome and be a believing one......everyone believing-jn3;16
Your whosoever....is my Everyone believing
Saving faith and the ability to do so comes from the Spirit directly....so in my response I pointed him to the word of God,and the covenant promise itself as the basis of our seeking assurance....not looking to our :"inner child"...or anything we do, or do not do, .....The Spirit is given so that we can begin as new born babes to desire the sincere milk of the word....
the non elect cannot do so......I know you understand total depravity and mans complete inability as you have repeated that these understandings are not unique to calvinism:smilewinkgrin: So iot was not---keywords--- to be searching for...it was the big picture in view:thumbsup:
Non elect persons do not have desires for humility or believing prayer. They might have a religion that is based on their own thoughts, rather than God'sClick to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporterwebdog said: ↑About 8 years ago I was a "calvie lite". When presented with this doctrine, and being the intellectual type, it made so much sense, particularly when I realized how many gifted preachers and authors held to this view, coupled with the many proof texts that are thrown around here daily. How could anyone disagree, I thought?
Two things made me second guess what I was being fed:
1. During one sermon, the powerpoint notes read in big letters JESUS LOVES YOU! I immediately thought, how can this be true? Surely not eveyone in this service was the "elect", after all "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated". This is a lie being shown to those who are not "elect"!
2. How do I know my family is the "elect"? If God does not love my family as He loves me, you mean that I love my family more than God does? A God who IS love?!? I would give my life for my children and wife...but God didn't?!?Click to expand...
1] you should have questioned the first statement as we know that God loves sinners in Christ.....savingly....he is angry the wicked everyday.
The love of God is In Christ.
2] unless you believe that God loves those in hell forever....you have a massive contradiction on your hands. Saying it is all up to the sinner ,and God has done all that he can....does not change what God does, or does not do...he changes not.....so how do you reconcile your own 2] quote with the fact that Jesus will send multitudes to hell on the last day? -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter2. How do I know my family is the "elect"? If God does not love my family as He loves me, you mean that I love my family more than God does? A God who IS love?!? I would give my life for my children and wife...but God didn't?!?Click to expand...
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterHeirofSalvation said: ↑Agreed, this is one of the reasons I cannot embrace Calvinism...when sharing the "gospel" as they see it....they seem to be forced to say things to them that they don't necessarily believe to be true. Or they simply cannot tell them the WHOLE truth. They only can honestly claim that God Might have a desire for their salvation, that Christ Might have died for them, and there is a possibility that Grace and the forgiveness of sins is available. God Might love them (at least in any intelligible or meaningful sense). And the correct answer to the question "what must I do to inherit eternal life" is simply....nothing, nothing whatsoever, if God intends for you to be saved, you will be. "Do I have to believe in or accept Christ as my Saviour or repent of my sins to be born again?" correct answer: NO.Click to expand...
Agreed, this is one of the reasons I cannot embrace Calvinism...when sharing the "gospel" as they see itClick to expand...
A person ....shares... a peanut and jelly sandwich.....an ambassador declares the terms of the King.
.they seem to be forced to say things to them that they don't necessarily believe to be true.Click to expand...
God loves sinners in Christ.A multitude will be saved
Any sinner who believes by God given faith will be saved
The Spirit brings dead sinners to life
The Spirit works through the word and prayer....
We do not lie,and say what the bible does not say....
I saw a tract of noahs ark in the flood.....it had a life preserver on the side saying....smile ...god loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life...which was visible to those perishing in the flood water....
then the tract asked questions about it....
They only can honestly claim that God Might have a desire for their salvation, that Christ Might have died for them, and there is a possibility that Grace and the forgiveness of sins is available.Click to expand...
We believe , and teach that God in Christ has provided a perfect and complete salvation to all who believe. It is actual and accepted by the Father.
Jesus has a multitude he is seeking and saving.....and all of them will in time come to Him savingly....Everyone of them,and none of them will be lost....God is not willing that any of His will be lost....he is longsuffering with the sin and filth going on in this world until the last elect sheep is brought in!
And the correct answer to the question "what must I do to inherit eternal life" is simply....nothing, nothing whatsoever, if God intends for you to be saved, you will be[/Click to expand...
it is true they cannot do anything to earn it.....however if God is going to save them they will believe His word as Jesus explained in jn 10;
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.Click to expand... -
Iconoclast said: ↑What you describe is a defective attempt at a gospel...and here is why;Click to expand...
Do you ever get tired of correcting the misapplication, misdirection, and misappropriation of Scriptures by those who argue against the Calvinistic view?
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