Featured Preordination

I already stated, very clearly:

Yes A New Man is Created ! Just as one was born out of corruptible seed, he was born again out of incorruptible seed !

1 Pet 1:23 That which is Flesh, or that birth out of Flesh, is not born again, but an entirely different New Creation is born, and that of God !

There is a Old Man which the elect is by Nature, and then the New Man which He is by Regeneration ! Eph 4:22-24

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The True Christian is comprised of Two Men, in One Dual Character. He is comprised of a man born out of the flesh, and a Man born of the Spirit, each man born out of respective heads, That they previously existed in One Head Adam, the Other Head being Christ. They were born out of Adam the corruptible seed, and born out of Christ, the incorruptible Seed, the Logos of God !

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1840685#post1840685

 

Come on SGM deal with it or recant!

 

You have not disproved anything, Rom 7 affirms all that I have said regarding the make up of a Christian:

I already stated, very clearly:

Yes A New Man is Created ! Just as one was born out of corruptible seed, he was born again out of incorruptible seed !

1 Pet 1:23 That which is Flesh, or that birth out of Flesh, is not born again, but an entirely different New Creation is born, and that of God !

There is a Old Man which the elect is by Nature, and then the New Man which He is by Regeneration ! Eph 4:22-24

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The True Christian is comprised of Two Men, in One Dual Character. He is comprised of a man born out of the flesh, and a Man born of the Spirit, each man born out of respective heads, That they previously existed in One Head Adam, the Other Head being Christ. They were born out of Adam the corruptible seed, and born out of Christ, the incorruptible Seed, the Logos of God !

Paul in Rom 7 is merely acknowledging the conflict of the Two Different men the Christian is after New Birth.

The Man born out of incorruptible seed, making him the New Man of Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

That is the man that does this Rom 7:25

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

But with the flesh, what he is by being born out of the corruptible seed adam, he serves the law of sin. He admits that !

So I do not see how you think Rom 7:14-25 supports anything you say, it does not, you are dreaming, dream on !

 

You have said nothing to resolve your problem! If the "old" man does nothing but sin and the new man cannot sin then what aspect of the human nature can "put on" and "put off" either??????

The aspect of Paul's nature identified by the personal pronoun "I" repeatedly used throughout Romans 7:14-25 stands in contrast to both the law of sin in the flesh and the inward man as this personal pronoun "I" can both sin and delight in the law or DO BOTH:

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:


There is within the constitution of man a conscious self that can DO BOTH! Hence, if the old man cannot do righteousness and the new man cannot do sin then what aspect of the human nature can do BOTH, can put on and can put off.

 

the bib

Yes I have, and it is no problem. The Christian acts out in Two Different men, One Born of the Flesh and one Born of God !

Thats why Paul can say as the New Man when He sins Rom 7:17

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

It is not him doing it as the New Man Eph 4:24

But it is him doing it as the man of flesh so he says Rom 7:19

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

He is Identifying Two different I"s The one in vs 17 is different from the I in vs 19

The I of vs 17 cannot do the evil of the I of vs 19 ! You understand ?

 

yes, that occurs when we are born again, at the moment of receiving jesus by faith!

 

we are ALL born as sinners, with just sinful nature in us, 'One man!"

When we place faith in christ, than reborn with a new nature, as the Holy spirit come to indwell us!

ONLY christians have Him in us, was He in you at birth then?

 

Free will does not exist. The Bible tells us we are slaves to sin until we are saved. It is a lie of the devil that we actually have any control of our own destiny.


God hardened Pharaoh's heart. We see that in Exodus 9, 10 and 11. God sent an evil spirit God sent an evil spirit between Abimelch and Shechem Judges 9. He also sent an evil spirit on Saul in 1 Sam 16.

That said, I would not be so quick to say God made people commit specific acts. We do know that He will enable His children to walk in His ways according to Ez 11 and 36.

 

God either determined, or else permitted ALL that happens!

he still requires us to place faith in Christ to be saved!

 

Work Salvation !

 

Will you provide me with a scripture that says man has a freewill ? I have been studying the scriptures for over 30 years and have yet to see one verse that states man has a freewill, or God hath given him a freewill.

 

The Myth of man having a freewill !

There is not a scripture that states that mans will is free, because it is never free from the Sovereignty of God. All wills of men and beast are under the absolute sovereign control of God always doing His will , carrying out His preordained purpose, and yes, they are [men] absolutely accountable for their choices that God ordained they make ! Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things[mens will] after the counsel of his own will:

 

One of the most misleading things that ever came out of the mouth and mind of the natural mind of men, is that God has given men a freewill. I have been reading, studying, and pondering scripture for well over 30 years now, and not once, have I seen the verse that says God is given men a freewill.

I will be showing by scripture, how that hypothesis is simply not true, and therefore just the reasoning of the natural mind of men.

Lets look first at a scripture of what Jesus said of some:

Jn 8:44

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

First of all, which one of us had the freewill choice to choose who our Father would be ?

 

Man's will is as free as God's Will in one sense! God's will is not free to lie, to deceive, to do anything contrary to his righteous nature. Nothing restricts man's freedom of choice but his own unrighteous nature and finite limitations. The problem is not the will but the heart of man.

God has an omniopotent, ominisicent, omnipresent nature and so nothing prevents Him from doing what He willeth in heaven and on earth. God's will is only restricted by His own righteous nature and soverign purposes.

Man's will is free to act within his unrighteous nature, limited power, limited knowledge, limited presence. His choices are limited by providential circumstances.

 

Well stated! There can be no coersive force used by God or else God is to be blamed for all moral evil. Hence, the only coersion of the will must come from within the very nature of man and the nature of God.

Certainly, God determines the providentical choice of circumstances or options and man's will is limited by his finite power to accomplish what he chooses but still the choices are his as he is held responsible on the day of judgment for them.


Man is as free as God is in his deliberations as nothing forces either God or man to choose except their own internal coersions (mind and heart = nature) as the will is not an isolated external entity separated from either the nature of man or God but rather the servant of the mind and heart as you always choose according to your own intellectual and/or emotional internal workings.

The problem with fallen man is not the will as it works just fine but the heart, the fallen nature, the mindset toward sin.