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"Private Interpretation"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Adonia, May 15, 2019.

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  1. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    [Time Index: 1:41-2:38] # 1. Was Adam with Eve when she was tempted in the garden?

    Ellen White says, “No.” (according to the video) and cites Patriarchs and Prophets, pages 53-54.

    “... The angels had cautioned Eve to beware of separating herself from her husband while occupied in their daily labor in the garden; with him she would be in less danger from temptation than if she were alone. But absorbed in her pleasing task, she [54] unconsciously wandered from his side. On perceiving that she was alone, she felt an apprehension of danger, but dismissed her fears, deciding that she had sufficient wisdom and strength to discern evil and to withstand it. Unmindful of the angels' caution, she soon found herself gazing with mingled curiosity and admiration upon the forbidden tree. The fruit was very beautiful, and she questioned with herself why God had withheld it from them. Now was the tempter's opportunity. As if he were able to discern the workings of her mind, he addressed her: "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Eve was surprised and startled as she thus seemed to hear the echo of her thoughts. But the serpent continued, in a musical voice, with subtle praise of her surpassing loveliness; and his words were not displeasing. Instead of fleeing from the spot she lingered wonderingly to hear a serpent speak. Had she been addressed by a being like the angels, her fears would have been excited; but she had no thought that the fascinating serpent could become the medium of the fallen foe. {PP 53.5} ...”

    The Bible says, “Yes.” (according to the video) and cites Genesis 3:6:

    Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

    What is the Truth of the matter?

    Consider Genesis 3:1-5, the context of Genesis 3:6, in that Adam is nowhere mentioned, and the serpent only speaks with Eve, and Eve was the only one “deceived” directly by the serpent:

    Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

    Genesis 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

    Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    Adam was in the garden 'with' Eve, but not at the vicinity of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, as Eve ended up being alone and away from her house-band.

    It would be like a person saying in answer to a question over the phone, “Where are you?”, I am at the mall with my wife, though we are in two differing department stores. The Garden is the general area, and the tree is at the center.

    Notice that the serpent only speaks directly to Eve, a single person. Adam is nowhere mentioned in vs 1-5, and is only mentioned at the end of vs 6, after the events at the tree itself with the serpent.

    If Adam were directly present at the tree with Eve, rather than in the vicinity of the Garden with her, then why didn't Adam intervene and speak up and counter the words of the serpent? Adam would have been culpable, as he is the head of the union, and has the final authority (as far as man goes).

    Adam and Eve had previously walked in the cool of the day with “the voice of the LORD God” (Jesus):

    Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

    Since Jesus always came down to them to speak with them, Jesus often has his two covering cherubs with Him, Gabriel and 'herald'. See Genesis 11:7, 18:2, 19:1; Isaiah 6:1-7; Daniel 8:15-16, 10:10-21, 12:5-7; Luke 1:26, 22:43, 24:4; Acts 1:10, etc. who always give instruction to men on behalf of Jesus.

    Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

    So, sister White, never says, in any place, that Adam was not 'with' Eve in the Garden. What she does say, is what scripture says (by studying it out), that Adam was not 'with” Eve at the tree of knowledge of good and evil when being tempted, which only makes sense given the circumstances. After Eve took and ate of the fruit, she found Adam in the Garden 'with' her, and she gave (the serpent now working through her) to Adam, who then ate.

    There is no contradiction, or private interpretation here.

    In fact, all of the points in this video have long since been debunked, over and over and over. It only takes a less than 2 second search on google to see that for anyone willing to take the time to see both sides of the issue and make the judgment based upon the word of God.

    So, #1, is debunked, which one specifically do you want to look at next, or were you even interested in truth or just smear campaigns? I am interested in truth and am unafraid to look at the evidences all laid out, but are you one such person, or are you one who lets others do their thinking for them?
     
    #101 Alofa Atu, May 28, 2019
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  2. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    [Time Index: 2:41 - 3:12] # 2 Was Adam deceived by satan?

    “Ellen White says, “Yes.”” (according to the video) and cites Evangelism (a compilation btw), page 598:

    “ Another Error--Commandments Done Away.-- Christ warns His followers, "Beware of false prophets, [598] which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." He exhorts us not to be deceived when false shepherds present their doctrines. These men tell us that the commandments of God were done away at the death of Christ. Shall we believe them, these men who claim to be sanctified, while they refuse to obey God? They say the Lord has told them that they need not keep the Ten Commandments; but has the Lord told them this? No, God does not lie. {Ev 597.3}

    Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God, that he would not die if he transgressed the law. But Adam fell, and by his sin he opened the floodgates of woe upon our world. Again, Satan told Cain that he need not follow expressly the command of God in presenting the slain lamb as an offering. Cain obeyed the voice of the deceiver; and because God did not accept his offering, while He showed His approval of Abel's offering, Cain rose up in anger and slew his brother. {Ev 598.1}

    We need to know for ourselves what voice we are heeding, whether it is the voice of the true and living God or the voice of the great apostate. . . . {Ev 598.2}

    When type met antitype in the death of Christ, the sacrificial offering ceased. The ceremonial law was done away. But by the crucifixion the law of Ten Commandments was established. The gospel has not abrogated the law, nor detracted one tittle from its claims. It still demands holiness in every part. It is the echo of God's own voice, giving to every soul the invitation, Come up higher. Be holy, holier still.-- Review and Herald, June 26, 1900. {Ev 598.3} ...”

    “The Bible says, “No.”” (according to the video) and cites 1 Timothy 2:14:

    1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    “Evangelism” is actually citing “The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, June 26, 1900” (which itself is citing the original “Manuscript 58, April 13, 1899”, but the quotation, about halfway through, cited (AR&SH) is thus:

    “... Christ warns his followers, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing; but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” He exhorts us not to be deceived when false shepherds present their doctrines. These men tell us that the commandments of God were done away at the death of Christ. Shall we believe them, these men who claim to be sanctified, while they refuse to obey God? They say the Lord has told them that they need not keep the ten commandments; but has the Lord told them this?—No; God does not lie. Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God, that he would not die if he transgressed the law. But Adam fell, and by his sin he opened the floodgates of woe upon our world. Again, Satan told Cain that he need not follow expressly the command of God in presenting the slain lamb as an offering. Cain obeyed the voice of the deceiver; and because God did not accept his offering, while he showed his approval of Abel's offering, Cain rose up in anger and slew his brother.

    We need to know for ourselves what voice we are heeding, whether it is the voice of the true and living God, or the voice of the great apostate. Eternal life is of value to each of us, and we must take heed how we hear. We need sound doctrine, pure faith. We cannot afford to receive the sayings of men for the commandments of God. God declares, “If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; if they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.”

    John gives us the definition of sin. “Whosoever committeth sin,” he says, “transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” And this was after the crucifixion of Christ, when, we are told, the law was abolished. When type met antitype in the death of Christ, the sacrificial offerings ceased. The ceremonial law was done away. But by the crucifixion the law of ten commandments was established. The gospel has not abrogated the law, nor detracted one tittle from its claims. It still demands holiness in every part. It is the echo of God's own voice, giving to every soul the invitation, Come up higher. Be holy, holier still. This just and holy law is the standard by which all will be judged in the last day. We need to ask ourselves the question, Are we making void the law of God, or are we standing in vindication of it? We should carefully examine our thoughts and words.

    The law has no power to pardon transgression. Repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ must be exercised. As the sinner looks into this divine mirror, he will see the exceeding sinfulness of sin, and will be driven to Christ. Godly sorrow will result from a realization of his frailty and depravity. His faith in the atoning sacrifice will be based on the sacred promise of full and complete pardon in Christ.

    Let us earnestly inquire, What is truth? We can not afford to build on a sandy foundation. The doctrines revealed in the word of God are to be the foundation of our faith. It is of the utmost importance that we understand, as far as God has given us capacity for understanding, the principles upon which his government rests; for the principles which we believe and receive into the heart will govern and control the actions. The more clear the understanding of the truth which is in Jesus, the more spiritual will be the religious life, the more holy the affections. ...” - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, June 26, 1900

    If only people would read in context and all of the material, comparing line upon line, for the quotation above is about a warning of 'false prophets', which are not Satan directly, but are his mediums through whom he speaks, and thus deceives the world, and hence the quotation, “Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way ...”, and how was it “similar”, did satan directly deceive Adam as he did Eve, “No”, for satan deceived Adam through Eve, for Eve became a false prophet, speaking on behalf of the devil, she became the medium for the downfall of Adam, which is exactly what scripture and the SoP/ToJ (above) says, listen further:

    “... Since the fall of Eve in Eden through intemperate desire to gratify the taste, this has been the prevailing sin of the human family. Eve, after her transgression, prevailed upon her husband to eat also. Adam was not deceived as was Eve, but he was influenced by her to do as she had done—eat and risk the consequences, as no harm, she said, had come to her. Adam yielded to the temptations of his wife. He could not endure to be separated from her. He ate and fell from his integrity. Since this lamentable occurrence, which has introduced sin into our world, intemperate, lustful appetite and the power of influence which one in wrong exerts over another have brought an accumulation of misery which it is not possible for language to describe. In no other way has Satan come to fallen man with his temptations as successfully as through the appetite. ...” - Manuscript 32, 1885, par. 6

    What about 1 Timothy 2:14?

    Was only Eve deceived? No, and the verse doesn't say only Eve was deceived. It is speaking of direct deception from the devil. While Adam was not deceived directly by the devil at the tree, satan used Eve to deceive Adam (as satan uses false prophets, in like manner, a medium or go-between), and thus Adam also fell by transgression:

    Job 31:33 If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:

    For the whole world (mankind) was deceived by the devil either directly as Eve, or indirectly as Adam:

    Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Again, there is no contradiction here, except those who hold to what the video is trying to make the scripture say, by not reading in context, and seeking only one verse and ignoring the others.

    #2 is debunked. Again, if someone would take 2 seconds on a google search, they would have found this was debunked years ago, and over and over and over. If they would have spent even 30 minutes in prayerful study of their Bible, in humility before God, they wouldn't waste their time (purchased by the blood of Jesus) in false accusations.
     
    #102 Alofa Atu, May 29, 2019
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    She is a false prophet.
     
  4. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    I haven't seen a single person demonstrate it yet with evidence. All I see is a smear campaign and wild baseless accusation. Who is your Father, again? All they can do is post debunked (a loooooong time ago) youtube videos, which they themselves have obviously not watched nor considered in any kind of thoughtful prayerful detail.

    The Bible says:

    1Th_5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

    The Bible does not say:

    Accuse all things and hold to thine own opinion no matter the evidence against it.
     
  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    [Time Index: 3:13 - 4:07] # 3 Was the tower of Babel built before the flood?

    Ellen White says, “Yes” (according to the video) and cites Spiritual Gifts, Volume 3, page 301

    “... The Lord first established the system of sacrificial offerings with Adam after his fall, which he taught to his descendants. This system was corrupted before the flood by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God, and engaged in the building of the tower of Babel. They sacrificed to gods of their own [making] instead of the God of Heaven. They did not offer sacrifices [302] because they had faith in the Redeemer to come, but because they thought they should please their gods by offering a great many beasts upon polluted idol altars. Their superstition led them to great extravagances. They taught the people that the more valuable the sacrifice, the greater pleasure would it give their idol gods, and the greater would be the prosperity and riches of their nation. Hence human beings were often sacrificed to these senseless idols. Those nations had laws and regulations to control the actions of the people which were cruel in the extreme. Their laws were made by those whose hearts were not softened by grace, and while they would pass over the most debasing crimes, a small offense would call forth the most cruel punishment from those in authority. {3SG 301.4} ...” - Spiritual Gifts (1864), Volume 3, page 301.4

    The Bible says, “No” (according to the video) and cites Genesis 10:32, 11:4:

    Genesis 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

    Genesis 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

    What is the context of Spiritual Gifts, Volume 3, page 301.4? It is “the system of sacrificial offerings”; not the building of the tower of Babel as the video wrongly claims (sister White is again, taken out of context).

    Sister White is describing two events, one before the flood.

    There are two ways to understand this in its context and other places in which this was mentioned:

    [1] The “by those” (in this instance) carries through both parts, and would read as such:

    “... This system was corrupted before the flood by those [1] who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God, and [2. by those] engaged in the building of the tower of Babel. ...”

    [1] “... This system was corrupted before the flood by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God ...”

    This refers to Genesis 4-6, the 'sons of God' (those who 'call on the name of the LORD'; Genesis 4:26) and the 'daughters of men' (those who 'went out from the presence of the LORD'; Genesis 4:16). See:

    Genesis 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

    Genesis 4:23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.

    Genesis 4:24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

    Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

    Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

    and one after the flood:

    [2] “... by those .... and engaged in the building of the tower of Babel.”

    or alternatively, there is a missing 'and' (which is found in other material, and sometimes happens through manual copying (as it was in 1864), as most of her material stems from notes & manuscripts, and re-transcribed for print):

    [2] “... This system was [1] corrupted before the flood [and, 2.] by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God, and engaged in the building of the tower of Babel. ...”

    Either way is in harmony with the all the material written by her on this and there is no contradiction, nor private interpretation here, but again, it is merely reading out of context and not applying the line upon line regulation. There was separation from God before and after the flood, so either way, with or without the 'and' is fine, because of the 'by those' (which determines the context of the part of the sentence):

    How do I know this is the correct understanding? See what else she wrote on the same thing:

    “... The Lord gave Moses definite instructions in regard to the ceremonial offerings which were to cease at the death of Christ. This system, first established with Adam after his fall, and taught by him to his descendants, was [1] corrupted before the flood, [2] and also by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God, and engaged in the building of the tower of Babel. They had no faith in the Redeemer to come, and they sacrificed to gods of their own choosing, instead of the God of Heaven. Their superstition led them to great extravagances. They taught the people that the more valuable their offerings, the greater would be the pleasure of their gods, and consequently the greater the prosperity and riches of their nation. Hence, human beings were often sacrificed to these senseless idols. Many of the laws which governed these nations were cruel in the extreme. They were made by men whose hearts were not softened by divine grace, and while the most debasing crimes were passed over lightly, a small offense would be visited by the most cruel punishment. {ST, June 17, 1880 par. 9} ...” - Signs of the Times, June 17, 1880, par. 9

    There was even a notation in the preface to the book by the editors and printers:

    “... Being here reproduced photographically, the pages carry with them, of course, such typographical errors as occurred in the first printing. One outstanding case of this kind will be noted in Volume III, page 301, in line 4 of the last paragraph, where, through inadvertently omitted, creating a seeming historical discrepancy in an incidental reference, which has given some careless readers, who wholly ignored the plain teaching of the earlier chapters, an opportunity to declare that the book teaches that the tower of Babel antedated the flood. This typographical error was soon discovered and was corrected in the next printing of the matter in 1870 in Spirit of Prophecy, Volume I. As corrected in this second printing, the sentence in question, referring to the sacrificial system established at the gate of Eden, reads: “This system was corrupted before the flood, and by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God and engaged in the building of the tower of Babel.” ...” - Spiritual Gifts, Volume 3, page ii

    #3 is debunked. Yet, this was, again, already addressed years ago.
     
  6. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    #4 [Time Index: 4:08 – 5:16] Was the man Jesus Christ also truly God?

    Ellen White says, “No” (according to the video) and cites “Letter 32, 1999, quoted in the Seventh-day Adventists Bible Commentary, Volume 5, page 1129)”

    “... There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is nonetheless [1130] true that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." {5BC 1129.7} ...” - Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 5 (1956), page 1129.7

    The Bible says, “Yes” (according to the video) and cites Isaiah 9:6; Philippians 2:9; Revelation 1:7-8:

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    First of all, the citation in the video is in error (misprint), as it cites “Letter 32, 1999”, but the actual notation is from “Letter 32, 1899”. So the author of the video can make a misprint, but sister White is allowed no such room? That is hypocrisy.

    Here is the actual context of Letter 32, 1899, as re-cited in the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 5 (1956), page 1129:

    “... (Matthew 27:54; 1 Timothy 3:16.) But although Christ's divine glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man. The human did not take the place of the divine, nor the divine of the human. This is the mystery of godliness. The two expressions "human" and "divine" were, in Christ, closely and inseparably one, and yet they had a distinct individuality. Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. His deity could not be lost while He stood faithful and true to His loyalty. Surrounded with sorrow, suffering, and moral pollution, despised and rejected by the people to whom had been intrusted the oracles of heaven, Jesus could yet speak of Himself as the Son of man in heaven. He was ready to take once more His divine glory when His work on earth was done. {5BC 1129.3}

    There were occasions when Jesus stood forth while in human flesh as the Son of God. Divinity flashed through humanity, and was seen by the scoffing priests and rulers. ...

    ...

    Christ left His position in the heavenly courts, and came to this earth to live the life of human beings. This sacrifice He made in order to show that Satan's charge against God is false--that it is possible for man to obey the laws of God's kingdom. Equal with the Father, honored and adored by the angels, in our behalf Christ humbled Himself, and came to this earth to live a life of lowliness and poverty--to be a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. Yet the stamp of divinity was upon His humanity. He came as a divine Teacher, to uplift human beings, to increase their physical, mental, and spiritual efficiency. {5BC 1129.6}

    There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is nonetheless [1130] true that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." {5BC 1129.7} ...

    ... (Letter 32, 1899). {5BC 1130.2} ...” - Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 5 (1956), page 1129.7

    The author of the video has grossly misrepresented the citation (or plagiarized, without checking, thus inheriting another's blatant errors), by taking it out of context and not giving the ellipses, neither comparing one portion with the other, for, when sister White says, “... The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. ..., she is contrasting the differing persons of “the man Christ Jesus”, “Christ” with “the Lord God Almighty”, “the Father”.

    If anyone faults her for that, then they will have to fault Daniel (and the angel Gabriel no less), who specifies the differing Persons of the Father and the Son, by saying “the Ancient of Days” (Father; Daniel 7:9,13,22) and “the Son of man” (Christ Jesus; Daniel 7:13).

    Sister White elsewhere when speaking of Jesus only, says “Almighty”. See:

    “... We need a deep insight into the nature of Christ and into the mystery of His love “that passeth knowledge.” [Ephesians 3:19.] We are to live in the warm, genial rays of the Sun of righteousness. Nothing but His loving compassion, His divine grace, His almighty power can enable us to baffle the relentless foe and subdue the opposition of the human heart. What is our strength?—The joy of the Lord. Let the melting love of Christ fill the heart, and we are softened and subdued, prepared to receive the power that He has for us. ...” - Manuscript 89, August 12, 1903, par 16.

    Again:

    “... “I lay down My life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.” While as a member of the human family He was mortal, as God He was the fountain of life for the world. He could have withstood the advances of death, and refused to come under its dominion; but voluntarily He laid down His life, that He might bring life and immortality to light. ...” - The Desire of Ages (1898), page 484.1

    Again:

    “... This same covenant was renewed to Abraham in the promise, “In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” Genesis 22:18. This promise pointed to Christ. So Abraham understood it (see Galatians 3:8, 16), and he trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. It was this faith that was accounted unto him for righteousness. The covenant with Abraham also maintained the authority of God's law. The Lord appeared unto Abraham, and said, “I am the Almighty God; walk before Me, and be thou perfect.” Genesis 17:1. ...” - Patriarchs and Prophets (1890), page 370.3

    #4 is debunked, again, for the umpteenth time in the past so many years. The narrator of the video says “any other belief is hearsay?” [Time Index 4:14 – 4:15]. Ooops, I think he meant “heresy”.
     
  7. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Ok, #5, hang on to your hats, as the narrator on this one fills it with bunk, bunk to the brim and brimming over!

    First part:

    [Time Index: 5:16 – 6:52] Was the Atonement for sin completed at the cross?

    Ellen White says, “No.” (according to the video) and cites Early Writings, page 253:

    “... Jesus entered the most holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by His mediation, and thus to cleanse the sanctuary. {EW 253.1} ...” - Early Writings, page 253.1

    The Bible says, “Yes.” (according to the video) and cites John 19:30; Romans 5:9-11:

    John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

    Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

    The narrator then states [Time Index: 6:15 – 6:52]:

    “The Bible totally rejects EGW's idea of the 2300 days and an investigative judgment in the heavenly sanctuary beginning in 1844. Notice how the Bible texts quoted above were all written less than thirty years after Jesus' resurrection, and all clearly state that Christians living then were already fully justified, redeemed, sanctified and reconciled to God through Christ's death on the cross. There is not a verse in the Bible to support the SDA sanctuary doctrine.”

    The Early Writings statement in context:

    “.. The furniture of the first apartment of the earthly sanctuary was like that in the first apartment of the heavenly. The veil was lifted, and I looked into the holy of holies and saw that the furniture was the same as in the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary. The priest ministered in both apartments of the earthly. He went daily into the first apartment, but entered the most holy only once a year, to cleanse it from the sins which had been conveyed there. I saw that Jesus ministered in both apartments of the heavenly sanctuary. The priests entered into the earthly with the blood of an animal as an offering for sin. Christ entered into the heavenly sanctuary by the offering of His own blood. The earthly priests were removed by death; therefore they could not continue long; but Jesus was a priest forever. Through the sacrifices and offerings brought to the earthly sanctuary, the children of Israel were to lay hold of the merits of a Saviour to come. And in the wisdom of God the particulars of this work were given us that we might, by looking to them, understand the work of Jesus in the heavenly sanctuary.

    As Jesus died on Calvary, He cried, “It is finished,” and the veil of the temple was rent in twain, from the top to the bottom. This was to show that the services of the earthly sanctuary were forever finished, and that God would no more meet with the priests in their earthly temple, to accept their sacrifices. The blood of Jesus was then shed, which was to be offered by Himself in the heavenly sanctuary. As the priest entered the most holy once a year to cleanse the earthly sanctuary, so Jesus entered the most holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by His mediation, and thus to cleanse the sanctuary. ...” - Early Writings, page 253

    First of all, the narrators last statement isn't true just on the statement alone, for in neither John 19:30, or Romans 5:9-11, does it say “redeemed” or “sanctified”. This is not to question the scriptural statements which do use those words, but this is simply and only pointing out the exaggeration of the narrator in overstepping his claim regarding the specific texts chosen.

    Secondly, the “2300 days” is not Ellen G Whites “idea”. It was already in existence before her:

    Church of Ireland; Irish Clergyman and Scientific Writer: William Hales (AD 8 April 1747 – AD 30 January 1831) on Daniel 7:25, 8:14, 9:24:

    Daniel 7:25, 8:14, 9:24:

    “... [page 11] 3. If now we count forward ... the prophetic division of the 1260 years ... and included perhaps in that specified by Daniel VIII, 13-14, as of consisting of "2300 [page 11-12] prophetic days, or years," will be closed; supposing it to commence with Daniel's "70 prophetic weeks," or 490 years ...

    ... And according to the still more sagacious conjecture, of the learned and worthy Layman - (and Irishman too, were I at liberty to divulge his name) - in a Comment on the Revelation, 8vo, 1787, Payne, reckoning the 70 weeks the former branch of the grand prophetic period of 2300 days - and the latter 2300 - 490 = 1810 ...”

    “... [page 76] (at the end of the grand prophetic period of 2300 days, Dan. VIII. 14.) ...”

    “... [page 145] and the commencement of Daniel's 70 weeks, (forming the first branch of the grand prophetic period of 2300 days, VIII. 14.) ...”

    “... [page 199] the amazing commentary, as it is the further illustration of the grand prophetic period of 2300 days in the preceeding chapter, Dan. VIII. ...”

    “... [page 206] the assumed commencement of the 70 weeks, and also of the grand prophetic period of 2300 days ...”

    “... [page 207] 26. And after the sixty and two weeks, before specified, as the largest division of the 70, was the Anointed [Leader] "cut off" judicially, by an iniquitous sentence, in the midst of the one week, which formed the third and last division, and began with our Lord's Baptism, about AD 27 - "When he was beginning to be thirty years of age," and commenced his mission, which lasted three years and half until his crucifixion, about AD 31.

    27. During this one week, which ended about AD 34, (about the martyrdom of Stephan,) a new covenant was established with many of the Jews, of every class; in the midst of which the Temple sacrifice was virtually abrogated by the all-sufficient sacrifice of the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the [repentant and believing] world. ...”

    “... [page 259]

    Grand Prophetic Period of 2300 days - 149

    First Division, 70 Weeks, or 490 years - 200

    The 7 Weeks - - - - - 205

    62 Weeks - - - - - - 207

    1 Weeks - - - - - 207,208

    Second Division, 1810 Years - - - .ib.

    1260 Days (Note a) - - - -8,63

    1290 Days - - - - - 34

    1335 Days - - - - - 35 ...” [The Inspector, or Select Literary Intelligence for the Vulgar; AD 1798 … [select pages], written in 1799] - The inspector, or Select literary intelligence
     
  8. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    continuing to debunk #5, second part:

    Methodist:
    Adam Clarke (AD 1760 or AD 1762 – AD 1832) Commentary, on Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:4,6; Daniel 7:25, 8:14,26, 9:24,25,27; Revelation 12:14, quoted in relevant part:

    Daniel 7:25: “... Until a time and times and the dividing of time - In prophetic language a time signifies a year; and a prophetic year has a year for each day. Three years and a half (a day standing for a year, … ) will amount to one thousand two hundred and sixty years, if we reckon thirty days to each month, as the Jews do. If we knew precisely when the papal power began to exert itself in the antichristian way, then we could at once fix the time of its destruction. The end is probably not very distant; it has already been grievously shaken by the French. In 1798 the French republican army under General Berthier took possession of the city of Rome, and entirely superseded the whole papal power. This was a deadly wound, though at present it appears to be healed; but it is but skinned over, and a dreadful cicatrice remains. The Jesuits, not Jesus, are now the Church's doctors. ...” - Daniel 7 Clarke's Commentary

    Daniel 8:14:
    "Unto two thousand and three hundred days - Though literally it be two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings. Yet I think the prophetic day should be understood here, as in other parts of this prophet, and must signify so many years. …" - Daniel 8 Clarke's Commentary

    Daniel 8:26
    : “... The vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true - That mentioned in Daniel 8:14. For it shall be for many days - Not less than two thousand three hundred years! ...” - Daniel 8 Clarke's Commentary

    Methodist: Rev. Joseph Benson (AD 1749 – AD 1821) Commentary, on Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:4-6; Daniel 7:25, 8:13, 9:24,25,26,27; Revelation 2:10, quoted in relevant part:

    Daniel 8:13:

    “... It must, however, be remembered, that many interpreters understand these days in the same sense in which days are generally understood by this prophet, namely, for years; and thus refer the prophecy to antichrist, ... This will carry us on to a still distant time in the church of God, to the completion of that opposition to the church of Christ which has been wished for long since, when the sanctuary will be perfectly cleansed, and to which the twelve hundred ninety and thirteen hundred thirty-five years of chap. 12. must have a reference. Sir Isaac Newton, Obs., chap. 9., not only reckons the days to be years, but will have the horn to be Rome, and does not refer it at all to Antiochus; and in this he is followed, in a great measure, by Bishop Newton ...” - Daniel 8 Benson Commentary

    Anglican Theologians; Free Church of Scotland: Jamieson, Fausset & Brown (AD 1871) Commentary
    on Ezekiel 4:5-6; Revelation 2:10, quoted in relevant part and citations from others:

    Daniel 8:14,26 [An “If”, a possibility allowed for]:

    “... [vs 14] If the twenty-three hundred days mean years, … we should arrive at about the close of the sixth thousand years of the world, just as the 1260 years (Da 7:25) from Justinian's decree arrive at the same terminus. The Jews' tradition represents the seventh thousand as the millennium. ...

    ... [vs 26] it shall be for many days—It refers to remote times (Eze 12:27). ...” - Daniel 8 Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

    Calvinism (German): Johann Peter Lange's (AD 10 April 1802, - AD 9 July 1884) Commentary on the Old Testament of AD 1882 on Ezekiel 4:4-6, and others as he cites:

    Daniel 8:14 [Lange cites others as “quite common” in his own country and in Great Britain and more rare in Germany but still existent there]:

    “... that class of interpreters, quite common in this country and Great Britain, but comparatively rare in Germany, who understand by the days in question so many years, and generally apply the prophecy to the continuance of the papal supremacy. ... Others, adopting the same substitution of years for “days,”... Elliott, the strongest advocate of this theory ... Horæ Apocalypticæ ...” - Daniel 8 Lange Commentary on the Holy Scriptures

    English Baptist: John Gill (AD 23 November 1697 – AD 14 October 1771) on Numbers 14:34; Daniel 7:25, 8:14, 9:24,25,26,27; Ezekiel 4:6; Revelation 2:10, and also as he notes seen from others, quoted in relevant parts:

    Daniel 8:14 [John Gill cites that Jacchiades and others held that position]:

    “... unto two thousand and three hundred days; or so many "mornings" and "evenings" ... so many years, as Jacchiades, and others ...” - Daniel 8 Gill's Exposition

    pastor of Calvary Chapel Santa Barbara: David Guzik Commentary (Pastoral ministry since AD 1982) on Numbers 14:34 and also comments on other passages: Daniel 8:14 [David Guzik cites the “popular” position]:
    “... A popular … interpretation of this passage took one year for every day, and William Miller used 2,300 "year-days"

    Adam Clarke comments show what a hold the year-date approach had to many of his time: "Though literally it be two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, yet I think the prophetic day should be understood here, as in other parts of this prophet, and must signify so many years. ...” - Untitled Document
     
  9. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    continuing to debunk #5, the 2300 days/years existed before Ellen G White:

    Roman Catholic (Layman, Scientist): Arnold of Villanova (AD 1235 – AD 1313), on Daniel 8:14:

    Daniel 8:14: "... When he says 'two thousand three hundred days' it must be said that by days he understands years. This is clear through the explanation of the angel when he says that in the end the vision will be fulfilled, from which he gives it to be understood by clear expression that in that vision by days are understood years. ..." - Translated from Arnold of Villanova, Introductio in Librum [Joachim] De Semine, fol. 7 v, col. 2, line 34 to fol. 8 r, col. 1, line 2. "... It is not unaccustomed, in the Scripture of God, for days to under-stand years. Nay, it is certainly usual and frequent. Whence also the Spirit in Ezekiel testifies: 'A day for a year I have reckoned to you. ..." - Translated from Arnold of Villanova, Introductio in Librum [Joachim] De Semine,, fol. 8 r, col. 1, lines 14-20. As translated/quoted in Leroy Edwin Froom, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Volume 1; Page 750 " ... 'Up to the evening and the morning, two thousand three hundred days.' By a day, however, he understands a year. ..." - Tractatus de Tempore Adventus Antichristi (Treatise on the Time of the Coming of Antichrist), fol. 59 v, col. 2 to fol. 60 r, col. 2. As translated/quoted in LeRoy Edwin Froom, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Volume 1, Page 752 " ... 'From the time when the continual sacrifice will have been taken away, and there will have been set up'—that is, up to the time when will be set up—`the abomination upon the desolation' namely, of the faithful people, 'a thousand two hundred and ninety days.' And here, just as above, by a day a year is understood, which is clear through what precedes, since it says 'And when the dispersion of the power of the holy people, all these things will be completed.' ..." - Tractatus de Tempore Adventus Antichristi (Treatise on the Time of the Coming of Antichrist), fol. 61 r, col. 2, line 28 to fol. 61 v, col. 1, lin. As translated/quoted in LeRoy Edwin Froom, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Volume 1, Page 753 " ... it is certain, as was clear above, that Daniel under the name of days gives us to understand years and not usual days ...” “... such an understanding agrees with the common concepts of men and the truth of Sacred Scripture commonly known. ..." - Tractatus de Tempore Adventus Antichristi (Treatise on the Time of the Coming of Antichrist), fol. 63 r, col. 1, lines 21-32. As translated/quoted in LeRoy Edwin Froom, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Volume 1, Page 754-755 - http://docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/PFOF/PFOF1950-V01.pdf#view=fit

    Other, Scientist: Sir Isaac Newton
    (AD 25 December 1642 – AD 20 March 1727) Commentary on Daniel & Revelation; Daniel 8:14; Revelation 2:10, quoted in relevant part:

    Daniel 8:14: "...[8] Daniel, one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. Daniel's days are years ...

    ... The Sanctuary and Host were trampled under foot 2300 days; and in Daniel's Prophecies days are put for years: but the profanation of the Temple in the reign of Antiochus did not last so many natural days. …" - Observations Upon the Prophecies of Daniel, the Apocalypse of St. John; Chapter IX - Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John
     
  10. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Continuing to debunk #5, parts 3 and 4:

    Thirdly
    , the “investigative judgment” is not Ellen G White's “idea” either. That came through Bible study and prayer, after the Great Disappointment in 1844 (which happened similarly to the disciples in Jesus' own day, history repeats itself; Ecc. 1:9, 3:15). See Hiram Edson (received an epiphany about where “the Son of man” (Dan. 7:13) came to, and went home to study it out) along with O. R. L. Crosier in the corn field, and later others in bible study on the matter - Hiram Edson (Vol. 3, No. 1) | Adventist Pioneer Library

    Fourthly, there are multiple “atonements” as scripture required, these for regular priests:

    If one carefully reads Leviticus 4 they will see the “daily” atonement:

    Leviticus 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

    Leviticus 4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

    Leviticus 4:31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

    Leviticus 4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

    And though these 'atonements' (plural) took place throughout the whole of the year, 'daily', etc, there was still needful, the final atonement (singular), requiring the Altar of Incense, Ark of the Covenant and the High Priest (none of which were present at the Cross on earth, which took place in the anti-typical court-yard where the 'sacrifice' took place and the death, burial and resurrection of the 'Laver'), the 'yearly', on the Day of Atonement, 10th Day of the 7th Month (takes place in the “heavenly” sanctuary as seen in Revelation after the Cross), in Leviticus 16:1-34 & Leviticus 23:26-32; Zechariah 3:1-9; Daniel 7:9-10,13,22, 8:13-14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, 10:6, 14:6-7.

    Exodus 30:10 And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD.

    This 'yearly' took place in the Fall (Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles), not Spring (as Passover, Unleavened, Firstfruits and Pentecost)

    [​IMG]

    The parallels in Daniel 8 to Leviticus 16 are stunning:

    Daniel 8 KJB is steeped in Sanctuary language, from the regular day to day service and the year end time service, the Day of Atonement, for it speaks about a “ram”, a “he-goat”, “four horns”, “the daily”, the “sanctuary”, the “prince of Princes” [High priest, Jesus Christ], the “host”, “saint”, “Gabriel” [the covering cherub who replaced Lucifer, who stands “in the presence of God” [Luke 1:19 KJB]], “transgression” [sin] and “cleansed”, and “truth” [Law, etc], and the 2,300 “evening and morning/s”, “many days”, and “time of the end”, “last end” and etc.

    In the sanctuary services [Psalms 77:13 KJB], the cleanse part has to do with the transition from the daily to the yearly [day of atonement] in type and antitype, even as Daniel 8 refers to in imagery [Ram [offering], He-goat [sin offering], Four Horns [as in the golden altar] for making atonement, in both place and people], see Leviticus 16:

    Leviticus 16:2,13,14,15 - mercy seat [and cherubim thereon]
    Leviticus 16:2-9,11-21,23-34 - High Priest, ministration
    Leviticus 16:3,5 - ram
    Leviticus 16:4,24,26,27,28,30 - washing/burning, thus cleansing
    Leviticus 16:5,7,8,15,24 - [Lord's] goat, sin offering
    Leviticus 16:5,9,10,15,16,21,27,30,34 - transgression
    Leviticus 16:5,6,7,15,16,17,19,20,21,22,23,24,26,27,28,29,30,31,33,34 - people of God, congregation, camp
    Leviticus 16:6,17,20 - atonement [so also Leviticus 23]
    Leviticus 16:12,13,18 - with four horns outside on altar of sacrifice and four horns inside golden altar of incense [Daniel 8:13-14,26, etc, Revelation 9:13-15, Oct. 22, 1844]
    Leviticus 16:16,19,30,33 - uncleanness of persons and places, needing to be cleansed [vs 19, “cleanse”]
    Leviticus 16:34 - end of the daily [evening and morning], now the once in the year

    Thus what Daniel 8:14 KJB, reveals is the transition of Christ Jesus [Daniel 8:13 KJB, “certain saint”, the wonderful numberer, who numbers the hairs, stars, sands, kingdoms, times and boundaries, etc] in His Great High Priestly role, from one phase [antitypical daily] to another [antitypical yearly] in the Great Heavenly Sanctuary above, per Daniel, Matthew, Acts, Hebrews, Revelation, etc, and also deals with the peoples of that time [1844] afterward, in their own related cleansing. Thus sanctuary, and host.

    Daniel 8:1,4,6,7,20 - Ram
    Daniel 8:3,5,6,7,8,9,20,21 - horns [8, 4 outside [altar sacrifice], 4 inside [altar incense' -- 2 on ram, 1 on he-got, 4 on he-goat, 1 from winds]
    Daniel 8:5,8,21 - He Goat
    Daniel 8:10,13,24,25 - the holy people of God
    Daniel 8:11,13,14,25 - certain saint [High Priest Jesus]
    Daniel 8:12,13,14,24,25 - transgression
    Daniel 8:13,15-17 - one saint speaking, and another saint said - covering cherubims/angels [Gabriel and 'Herald']
    Daniel 8:11,12,13-14,26 - daily ongoing [evening and morning] and finally ended, yearly commenced
    Daniel 8:14 - cleansed

    more in Daniel 9-12 KJB where the atonement is found, which is the re-explanation and expansion of Daniel 8.

    There are two sets of 'four horns' in Daniel 8 KJB.

    The first set of 'four':

    [1]two horns” of the Ram
    [2] the “great” or “notable” “horn” of the He-goat
    [3] the “little horn” out of the four winds

    The second set of 'four':

    [1] the “four notable ones” that came out of the He-goat after the “great” or “notable” “horn”.

    There are 8 horns in the sanctuary service.

    [1] 4 horns on the altar of sacrifice [Exodus 27:2, 38:2 KJB]
    [2] 4 horns on the altar of incense [Exodus 30:2, 37:25,26 KJB]

    Daniel 8:14 KJB - And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

    Side note:

    The word “cleansed” [Daniel 8:14 KJB] is found tied to the following words, in relationship to the sanctuary and of judgment:

    Consider that in Job 25:4 KJB, utilizing the same word found in Daniel 8:14 KJB, for “cleansed”, is given as “justified”, but in parallel [Isaiah 28:10 KJB, the ways of the Lord being “equal” [Ezekiel 18:25,29 KJB]] in vs 4, as meaning, “be clean”, and even vs 5, refers to “pure”, referring to a case to be judged, as Job's.

    Consider that in Job 15:14 KJB, utilizing the same word found in Daniel 8:14 KJB, for “cleansed”, is given as “righteous”, but in parallel [Isaiah 28:10 KJB, the ways of the Lord being “equal” [Ezekiel 18:25,29 KJB]] in vs 14, as meaning, “be clean”, and even in vs 15, refers to “saints” [holy], and “clean” again.

    Consider also that Psalms 51:4 KJB, utilizing the same word in Daniel 8:14 KJB, for “cleansed”, is given as “justified”, but in parallel [Isaiah 28:10 KJB, the ways of the Lord being “equal” [Ezekiel 18:25,29 KJB]] in vs 4, as meaning, “be clear when thou judgest” [ie. day of atonement, Leviticus 16 & 23:27-32 KJB, see also Revelation 9:13-15, 14:6-7 KJB], then read further in vs 7, of “clean” and “wash”.

    Consider that in Job 22:3 KJB, utilizing the same word found in Daniel 8:14 KJB, for “cleansed”, is given as “righteous”, but in parallel [Isaiah 28:10 KJB, the ways of the Lord being “equal” [Ezekiel 18:25,29 KJB]] in vs 3, as meaning, “perfect”, and even in vs 4, refers to “judgment”.

    Consider that in Psalms 19:7-9 KJB, utilizing the same word found in Daniel 8:14 KJB, for “cleansed”, is given as “righteous”, but in parallel [Isaiah 28:10 KJB, the ways of the Lord being “equal” [Ezekiel 18:25,29 KJB]] in [vs7]: “perfect”, [vs 8]: “right”, “pure”, [vs 9]: “clean”, “judgments”, “righteous”.

    Etc, etc. for every time the underlying word, as found in Daniel 8:14 KJB, is used in scripture, it almost inevitably is connected with the same words in context, if not in the very same text itself, see [H6663], “צדק”, “tsâdaq” in the King James Concordance.
     
  11. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    continuing to debunk #5, parts 5:

    Fifthly, the teaching of the 'investigative judgment' is all through the Bible:

    Psalms 7:11 KJB - God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day.

    Psalms 37:33 KJB - The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.

    Ecclesiastes 3:17 KJB - I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

    Ecclesiastes 12:14 KJB - For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

    This also links to the record books in Heaven (more on that as needful, for now see Isaiah 65:6-7)

    The investigative judgment is found in type and in prophecy throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

    In Genesis 2 & 3, we see Eve being deceived into sin, though Adam was warned, and He having warned her, and Adam following in sin, and then "they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day", and God ['Jesus'] investigates, inquiring and asking questions [Genesis 3:9-19; not that God doesn't know, but it is for the benefit of the angels and Adam/Eve and us], having already warned man of the sentence for sin [Genesis 2:17], and then God carries out sentence, but also gives hope [Genesis 3:15].

    In Genesis 4, we see Cain and Abel, which both claimed to worship God, yet one was a son of that wicked one, satan. When Abel was killed by Cain, God came down and asked/inquired/investigated of Cain, before sentence was carried out.

    In Genesis 6-9, we see that the world was becoming wicked, and while many claimed to follow God, they were already inter-marrying with the children of Cain. God looks upon the world in investigation, before execution of Judgment by the Flood.

    In Genesis 10-11, we see that the people again rebelled, and God came down to see and look and investigate, before the execution of Judgment in the separation of the languages.

    In Genesis 17-19, we see that God had delivered the people of Lot and Sodom, and yet Sodom did not truly repent, and went further in rebellion, and God came down to see/investigate/judge before execution of Judgment. ...etc...

    In Leviticus 16 & 23, we see that Israel, and all that claimed to follow God, was to enter into the time of the typical Day of Atonement, wherein the Priest bore into the Sanctuary, upon the Breast plate of Judgment the people, represented by the stones. Anyone found not to be in harmony with God, in true repentance, was to be cut off at the end of it.

    In 1 Kings 3, we see Solomon [type of Christ] having an investigation between two persons [women] over a dead Child [Christ], and a living Child [Christ] to see who really loved the Child. Solomon investigates in a judgment setting upon His throne, and gives a test, and a sentence testing the loyalty of the True mother [true Church, worshippers] and the corruption of heart of the false mother [false church, worshippers].

    In Ezra 2, we see an investigative judgment in type:

    Ezra 2:61 KJB - And of the children of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai; which took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called after their name:

    Ezra 2:62 KJB - These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.

    Ezra 2:63 KJB - And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.

    All of those priests coming back from the captivity of Babylon, had to be able to shew themselves by lineage, and had to pass through an investigation, to continue in their role as priests of God. Christians are kings and priests, a royal priesthood, and we have come out of the captivity. This is seen throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

    The Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation reveal in type and in Prophecy this great end-time Investigative Judgment, and in Exodus 28:15,29,30 KJB we see the breastplate upon the Highpriest, is called “the breastplate of judgment”.

    In Daniel 7, we see God the Father sitting in judgment, with the books of records being opened, and the angels ministering and searching the records, with Jesus present.

    In Daniel 12, we see Michael/Jesus standing up, after the searching of the record books of Heaven, and the book of Lifeof the Lamb have been searched and read

    In Zechariah 3, we see an investigative judgment, taking place in the Most Holy Place on the day of atonement, with Joshua the High priest.

    In Malachi 3, we see God sitting as a refiner, in judgment over his children.

    In the Gospels, Jesus himself came to see/investigate/judge Israel, before the execution of Judgment.

    In the Gospels, the disciples themselves were sifted, and we can even see this futher with Peter in the courtyard of the Highpriest, with Jesus in the upper room, and so on.

    In Matthew 18, we see God taking account of his servants, who had at one point received forgiveness, but later had it revoked.

    In Romans 2:13-16, we read of the future judgment of all men, including their secrets by Jesus

    In 2 Corinthians 5:10, we read of all having to appear before the judgment seat of Christ

    In Hebrews 9, we see this judgment was to begin with the dead, in the time of judgment.

    In 1 Peter 4, we see that God, at the time of Peter, was “ready” to judge, and would begin at the time specified in Daniel and in Leviticus 16 & 23.

    In Jude 1:15, we read of Jesus second advent to render and to “execute judgment” that was determined beforehand in the investigation.

    In Revelation 3:10, 17:12, we see a specific testing of the living professing, that comes after the dead professed [Hebrews 9:27]

    In Revelation 11, we see that the very Church, the Temple of God, was to be measured, sometime after the 1,260 years of Daniel.

    In Revelation 14, we see the very first Angel's message declare that the time of judgment had begun, and was going forward while the Everlasting Gospel was still being preached.

    … and so on.

    Notice, that when the Ancient of Days [the person of the Father] sat, multiple thrones were also placed, wherein the angels [which 10,000 etc surrounded Him] also sat, and books were opened. This judgment is for the angels to look into, because they cannot read the human heart as God can, and thus they need to see for themselves that God's judgments were right on who is to be let into a place without sin [Heaven]. The timing of the sequence in Daniel 7 [as shown in context and in chiastic structure, etc] reveals that this phase of judgment takes place after the rise of Rome and its divisions, and before the second advent, and the kingdom come. It is unbreakable in its order. The judgment therein is even taking place while the little horn is still blaspheming on earth, before it is destroyed, before the number of the kingdom of Heaven is made up.
     
  12. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    continuing to debunk #5, part 5 continued:

    In Daniel 7 is in 4 main parts.

    Daniel 7:1-14 KJB the vision of Daniel
    Daniel 7:15-18 KJB the super summary of the whole vision by Gabriel [even vss 17,18]
    Daniel 7:19-22 KJB Daniel asking about it again, and a specific
    Daniel 7:23-28 KJB Gabriel, once more going over the whole in more detail

    Thus Daniel, Gabriel, Daniel, Gabriel. Each portion intimately tied to the other, so that the timing thereof cannot be broken between each section.

    Daniel 7:22 KJB - Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    Until [refers to the previous time portion in earlier verse, the leading up to 1844, thus the 1,260 years, 538-1798]

    Ancient of Days came, and did sit [refers to 1844 until the close of probation]

    judgment was given to the saints of the most High [refers to 1,000 years, see Rev 20:4, "given unto", see also Paul, know ye not that the saints will judge angels [fallen], the world [lost].]

    and the time came [end of the 1,000 years, see Rev. 20, Isaiah 24, etc] that the saints posesses the kingdom [being New Heaven and New Earth]

    In Ezekiel 1-9, shows the same, wherein a investigative judgment goes forward, and then execution of that judgment takes place after, beginning with the elders of the temple/sanctuary on down to the least.

    A very important text to consider:

    Proverbs 28:5 KJB - Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

    Perhaps it is the word "Investigative" that is the issue with so many, since they cannot seem to find it in the KJB, but perhaps if they might look in the many other English translations to which they themselves trust in:

    For instance, Daniel 9:10 - Daniel 7:10 - Bible Gateway -


    [MSG] - “As I was watching all this, “Thrones were set in place and The Old One sat down. His robes were white as snow, his hair was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, its wheels blazing. A river of fire poured out of the throne. Thousands upon thousands served him, tens of thousands attended him. The courtroom was called to order, and the books were opened.

    [NOG] - "A river of fire flowed. It came from him. Thousands and thousands served him. Ten thousand times ten thousand were stationed in front of him. The court convened, and the books were opened."

    [ISV] - "A river of fire flowed out from before him. Thousands upon thousands were serving him, with millions upon millions waiting before him. The court sat in judgment, and record books were unsealed."

    [GNT] - "and a stream of fire was pouring out from it. There were many thousands of people there to serve him, and millions of people stood before him. The court began its session, and the books were opened."

    etc ...

    God gave us a type of how God operates in Heaven:

    Deuteronomy 13:14 KJB - Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

    Deuteronomy 13:14 - Deuteronomy 13:14 - Bible Gateway

    [AMP] - "then you shall investigate and search out [witnesses] and ask thorough questions. If it is true and the matter is established that this loathsome thing has been done among you,"

    [CSB] - "you are to inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. If the report turns out to be true that this detestable act has been done among you,"

    [HCSB] - "you are to inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. If the report turns out to be true that this detestable thing has happened among you,"

    etc., etc. ...

    Deuteronomy 19:18 KJB - And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;

    Deuteronomy 19:18 - Deuteronomy 19:18 - Bible Gateway

    [AMP] - "The judges shall investigate thoroughly, and if the witness is a false witness, and he has accused his brother falsely,"

    [CSB] - "The judges are to make a careful investigation, and if the witness turns out to be a liar who has falsely accused his brother,"

    [CJB] - "The judges are to investigate carefully. If they find that the witness is lying and has given false testimony against his brother,"

    [HCSB] - "The judges are to make a careful investigation, and if the witness turns out to be a liar who has falsely accused his brother,"

    etc, etc ...

    Even, at least one, use the exact word:

    [OJB] - "thought it expedient also, having done an iyun (investigative research), accurately and carefully being meayen (engaged in research) in every source and making a medakdeke (pain-stakingly thorough) investigation of every aspect from HaReshit (the Beginning), to write for you and to mesader (arrange, place in succession) an orderly account, most noble Theophilus,"

    What will these people say, when God asks them why they did not believe, and why they taught contrary to His word?

    Psalms 9:12 KJB - When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble.

    God is already making inquisition, an investigation, for blood, upon all those of the past who have professed His name, and will He find "blood" on their garments, on their hands, will He find the blood of others upon them? Soon, God will turn from those who have died in profession to those living ...
     
  13. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    final debunking of #5, the final part:

    Finally, when Jesus said, “It is finished.” (that was His confirming His side of the Everlasting Covenant between Himself and the Father in eternity (called 'the covenant of life and peace' (Malachi 2:5), etc), ratified by Jesus' blood, see Psalms 116:14,18 and the Father's confirmation after Jesus' ascension in Psalms 61:5.

    It is easily shown that covered sin (sin in remission) is not sin blotted out. There are two stages (courtyard, daily) and (Most Holy Place, yearly).. It is also easily shown in scripture that there is a real original Heavenly Sanctuary that Jesus ascended to, just pick up Hebrews and Revelation among others, Isaiah 6, Daniel 7, etc.

    Jesus had previously said:

    John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

    So, at the Cross, Jesus laid the Foundation of the Third Temple (Himself, being the chief cornerstone). It was only the finalization of the beginning. In effect He laid the perfect character (1 Corinthians 3:11) for all to follow and build upon. The rest of the Temple had to be built (see the type in Cyrus II, type in Solomon), for we as Christians are lively stones (1 Peter 2:5) built upon that foundation (Ephesians 2:20). It was not the end of everything, but only the end of the first phase (court-yard phase), for Christ Jesus had to now minister the blood of the sacrifice, as High Priest, of which He was not anointed to be such, until Pentecost, Acts 2:1-3,18-19,33; Revelation 5:6; Psalms 133:1-3; Hebrews 7:26, etc.

    The sacrifice of Jesus and His shed blood especially, was 'an atonement'. It was not the final atonement. The first was for forgiveness of sins, remission, covering of sins. The final atonement is for blotting out sin completely, no longer need the covering, for it will then be as though we had never sinned.

    #5 is thoroughly debunked. But you already knew that just from the first 4.
     
  14. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Another lengthy debunking:

    #6

    [Time Index: 6:55 – 8:14] Does the blood of Christ cancel sin?

    Ellen White says, “No.” (according to the video) and cites Patriarchs and Prophets, page 357:

    “... The blood of Christ, while it was to release the repentant sinner from the condemnation of the law, was not to cancel the sin; it would stand on record in the sanctuary until the final atonement; so in the type the blood of the sin offering removed the sin from the penitent, but it rested in the sanctuary until the Day of Atonement. ...” - Patriarchs and Prophets, page 357.5

    The Bible says, “Yes.” (according to the video) and cites Ephesians 1:7; 1 John 1:7; Romans 4:7-8:

    Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    Romans 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

    Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    The narrator then says [Time Index 7:44 – 8:14]:

    “To forgive means to pardon, give up all rights to punish, to forever cancel a debt. Jesus did all that for us when He shed His blood for us. The Bible says that forgiven sins are never counted against an individual.

    However, Ellen White contradicts the Bible by claiming God stores up our sins and later punishes us for them if we do not measure up to His standard before the final atonement. This idea causes millions of SDA's [members (narration)] agony as they question whether or not they will be saved.”

    Several things here:

    'Forgiveness' does not ever mean (in scripture), to “forever cancel a debt”, what it does mean, is to lay the debt aside by the one who owed (the debt (deficit) is still there it didn't vanish into thin air), see below.

    Additionally, the sins are on record (written in the books), until they are blotted out. They are presently covered by the blood if Jesus sacrifice is accepted.

    Also, a true Seventh-day Adventist has the assurance offered by God, and the Holy Ghost, and so, 'No. it is not true at all, that 'millions of SDA's [are in] agony as they question whether or not they will be saved.” Nonsense. I have the assurance. I also have the healthy fear (love) of God, that I do not wrong. I can blaspheme away the Holy Ghost (Mark 3:29).

    Forgiven sins are never counted against the one forgiven (and are thus not imputed), and are ready to be blotted out. They (sins once forgiven) are only counted if the forgiveness was revoked (Matthew 18, etc), and the sins become un-covered, un-remitted (re-imputed) and placed back upon the one who owed the debt to begin with.

    Here is the context of Patriarchs and Prophets, page 357:

    “... Moses made the earthly sanctuary, “according to the fashion that he had seen.” Paul declares that “the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry,” when completed, were “the patterns of things in the heavens.” Acts 7:44; Hebrews 9:21, 23. And John says that he saw the sanctuary in heaven. That sanctuary, in which Jesus ministers in our behalf, is the great original, of which the sanctuary built by Moses was a copy.

    The heavenly temple, the abiding place of the King of kings, where “thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him” (Daniel 7:10), that temple filled with the glory of the eternal throne, where seraphim, its shining guardians, veil their faces in adoration—no earthly structure could represent its vastness and its glory. Yet important truths concerning the heavenly sanctuary and the great work there carried forward for man's redemption were to be taught by the earthly sanctuary and its services.

    After His ascension, our Saviour was to begin His work as our High Priest. Says Paul, “Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.” Hebrews 9:24. As Christ's ministration was to consist of two great divisions, each occupying a period of time and having a distinctive place in the heavenly sanctuary, so the typical ministration consisted of two divisions, the daily and the yearly service, and to each a department of the tabernacle was devoted.

    As Christ at His ascension appeared in the presence of God to plead His blood in behalf of penitent believers, so the priest in the daily ministration sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice in the holy place in the sinner's behalf.

    The blood of Christ, while it was to release the repentant sinner from the condemnation of the law, was not to cancel the sin; it would stand on record in the sanctuary until the final atonement; so in the type the blood of the sin offering removed the sin from the penitent, but it rested in the sanctuary until the Day of Atonement.

    In the great day of final award, the dead are to be “judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Revelation 20:12. Then by virtue of the atoning blood of Christ, the sins of all the truly penitent will be blotted from the books of heaven. Thus the sanctuary will be freed ...” - Patriarchs and Prophets, page 357

    Firstly, sister White never said that the blood of Jesus (His merits) doesn't cancel out sin. She in fact, says it does, but not at the first phase (Cross), but in the third (end of the Day of Atonement):

    “... During the time of trouble, the position of God's people will be similar to the position of Joshua. They will not be ignorant of the work going on in heaven in their behalf. They will realize that sin is recorded against their names, but they will also know that the sins of all who repent and lay hold of the merits of Christ will be canceled. Jesus says: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." The judgment of the dead has been going on, and soon the judgment will begin upon the living, and every case will be decided. It will be known whose names are retained upon the book of life, and whose are blotted out. Every day the angels of God keep a record of the transactions of men, and these records stand open to the eyes of angels, and Christ, and God. Those who have manifested true repentance for sin, and by living faith in Christ are obedient to God's commandments, will have their names retained in the book of life, and they will be confessed before the Father and before the holy angels. Jesus will say, "They are mine; I have purchased them with my own blood." {ST, June 2, 1890 par. 4} ...” - Signs of the Times, June 2, 1890, par. 4

    “... Peter was willing to lessen the atrocity of their guilt as much as possible, by presuming that they did the deed ignorantly. He declared to them that the Holy Ghost was calling for them to repent of their sins and to be converted; that there was no hope for them except through the mercy of that Christ whom they had crucified; through faith in him only could their sins be canceled by his blood. ...” - The Spirit of Prophecy, Volume 3 (1878), page 277.2

    “... All sin unrepented of and unconfessed, will remain upon the books of record. It will not be blotted out, it will not go beforehand to Judgment, to be canceled by the atoning blood of Jesus. The accumulated sins of every individual will be written with absolute accuracy, and the penetrating light of God's law will try every secret of darkness. In proportion to the light, to the opportunities, and the knowledge of God's claims upon them, will be the condemnation of the rejecters of God's mercy. ...” - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, March 27, 1888, par. 12
     
  15. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    # 6 continued to be debunked:

    Secondly, neither Ephesians 1:7; 1 John 1:7, nor Romans 4:7-8 say anything about forgiveness being irrevocable. That is ad-libbed mentally by an OSAS mindset (which frankly is the false and deadly doctrine, and I am not speaking of the believer's assurance either, which is scriptural). Scripture doesn't teach that (OSAS). It teaches:

    [1] Forgiveness, remission (taking away), covering of sin (by the blood of Jesus) (Cross and shed blood, Earthly court-yard, Sacrifice, Spring)

    [2] Blotting out sin, no longer needing to be covered (by the blood), as though we had never sinned (Day of Atonement, Heavenly Sanctuary, High Priest, Fall)

    See Matthew 18:21-35 just to begin with.

    Matthew 18:21-35, Forgiveness Revoked:

    John Wesley [Methodist] Commentary on Matthew 18:34 -

    "... How observable is this whole account; as well as the great inference our Lord draws from it: The debtor was freely and fully forgiven; He wilfully and grievously offended; His pardon was retracted, the whole debt required, and the offender delivered to the tormentors for ever. And shall we still say, but when we are once freely and fully forgiven, our pardon can never be retracted? Verily, verily, I say unto you, So likewise will my heavenly Father do to you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. ..."

    Matthew Henry [Non-Conformist] Commentary [read carefully please] on Matthew 18:21-35 -


    "... here is forgiveness with God for the greatest sins, if they be repented of. Though the debt was vastly great, he forgave it all, Mat_18:32. Though our sins be very numerous and very heinous, yet, upon gospel terms, they may be pardoned. [3.] The forgiving of the debt is the loosing of the debtor; He loosed him. The obligation is cancelled, the judgment vacated; we never walk at liberty till our sins are forgiven. But observe, Though he discharged him from the penalty as a debtor, he did not discharge him from his duty as a servant. The pardon of sin doth not slacken, but strengthen, our obligations to obedience; and we must reckon it a favour that God is pleased to continue such wasteful servants as we have been in such a gainful service as his is, and should therefore deliver us, that we might serve him, Luk_1:74. I am thy servant, for thou hast loosed my bonds. ...

    (2.) How he revoked his pardon and cancelled the acquittance, so that the judgment against him revived (Mat_18:34); He delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. ..."

    The Pulpit Commentary [Rev. Joseph S. Exell and Henry Donald Maurice Spence-Jones] on Matthew 18:21-25 -

    "... Christ’s teaching on this point has even a severe side—even his forgiveness may be revoked, if he finds, by our behaviour after forgiveness, that we were morally unfitted to receive it.—R.T. ..."


    Jospeh Benson [Methodist] Commentary on Matthew 18:34 -


    "... Who in like manner acknowledged his debt, and promised payment, showing thee, in his supplication, though thine equal, as much respect as thou showedst to me, thy lord and king? And his lord was wroth — Was exceedingly enraged; and delivered him to the tormentors — Not only revoked the grant of remission which he had just before made, as forfeited by so vile a behaviour; but put him in prison, commanding him to be there fettered and scourged; till he should pay all that was due unto him — That is, without any hope of release, for the immense debt which he owed he could never be able to pay. ..."

    Preacher's Homiletical [Commentary]:

    "... Mat_18:23-35. The unforgiving temper.—There is a fine story illustrative of this parable, told by Fleury (Hist. Eccles., 5:2, p. 334). It is briefly this: Between two Christians at Antioch enmity and division had fallen out; after a while one of them desired to be reconciled, but the other, who was a priest, refused. While it was thus with them, the persecution of Valerian began; and Sapricius, the priest, having boldly confessed himself a Christian, was on the way to death. Nicephorus met him, and again sued for peace, which was again refused. While he was seeking, and the other refusing, they arrived at the place of execution. He that should have been the martyr was here terrified, offered to sacrifice to the gods, and, despite the entreaties of the other, did so, making shipwreck of his faith; while Nicephorus, boldly confessing, stepped in his place, and received the crown which Sapricius lost. This whole story runs finely parallel with our parable. Before Sapricius could have had grace to confess thus to Christ, he must have had his own ten thousand talents forgiven; but, refusing to forgive a far lesser wrong, to put away the displeasure he had taken up on some infinitely lighter grounds against his brother, he forfeited all the advantages of his position, his Lord was angry, took away from his grace, and suffered him again to fall under those powers of evil from which he had once been delivered. It comes out, too, in this story, that it is not merely the outward wrong and outrage upon a brother, which constitutes a likeness to the unmerciful servant, but the unforgiving temper, even apart from all such.—Archbishop Trench. ..."

    Ellicott's [Charles John, English Christian] Commentary on Matthew 18:35 -

    "... Do also unto you.--The words cut through the meshes of many theological systems by which men have deceived themselves. Men have trusted in the self-assurance of justification, in the absolving words of the priest, as though they were final and irreversible. The parable teaches that the debt may come back. If faith does not work by love, it ceases to justify. If the man bind himself once again to his old evil nature, the absolution is annulled. The characters of the discharge are traced (to use another similitude) as in sympathetic ink, and appear or disappear according to the greater or less glow of the faith and love of the pardoned debtor. ..."

    Coffman's [James Burton, Church of Christ] Commentaries on the Bible Matthew 18:21-35 -

    "... The forgiveness the king extended to the unmerciful sinner was total, complete, and uncluttered with any penalties whatsoever. It would also have been permanent if the servant's conduct had not led to its revocation. That he later fell into condemnation was not due to any quality lacking in the full and free pardon that he received, but was due to his later conduct. ..."
     
  16. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    #6 continued to be thoroughly debunked:

    to have ones "sins" "covered" "by the blood", which is "forgiveness", "remission",

    "justification", is not the same as having them "blotted out".

    Psalm 32:1 - [[[A Psalm] of David, Maschil.]] Blessed [is he whose] transgression [is] forgiven, [whose] sin [is] covered.

    Psalm 85:2 - Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.

    Quote the definition of "cover" from the online dictionary and compare the two, "cover" and "blot", and they are definitely not synonynms - the definition of cover

    To "cover" is to conceal, hide away, place under something, etc [even as Scripture and Strong's Concordance reveal]; and thus remains to be dealt with.

    If Christ Jesus blotted out sins at the Cross, there was no need to "cover" anything, as there would be nothing to "cover". Since Christ Jesus did "cover" the sins by His blood, there is yet the need to blot them out.

    Just a simple Biblical examination of the words "cover" and "blot out" will reveal that they are not equal, for example on the word "cover[ed]" as found in Psalms 32:1, 85:2:

    Genesis 7:19 - And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that [were] under the whole heaven, were covered.

    Genesis 7:20 - Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

    Psalm 104:6 - Thou coveredst it with the deep as [with] a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

    Psalm 104:9 - Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

    Exodus 33:22 - And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

    Genesis 38:15 - When Judah saw her, he thought her [to be] an harlot; because she had covered her face.

    Psalm 91:4 - He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth [shall be thy] shield and buckler.

    Deuteronomy 33:12 - And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; and the LORD shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.

    etc.

    Did the "covering" of waters in the days of Noah [Noe] erase the Mountains, or was Moses blotted out of existence by the hand of God, or those covered by the "Feathers" of God wiped out completely, or the Harlots face gone from behind a veil? Or rather did the "covering" simply place one thing over/on top of another thing, and both continued to exist, even protectively?

    Consider that the two things, [1] "cover" and [2] "blot out" are separate and distinct things, not equal to one another, for if one sins are not "covered" by the blood, then they cannot be later "blotted out":

    Nehemiah 4:5 - And cover not their iniquity, and let not their sin be blotted out from before thee: for they have provoked thee to anger before the builders.

    Jeremiah 18:23 - Yet, LORD, thou knowest all their counsel against me to slay me: forgive not their iniquity, neither blot out their sin from thy sight, but let them be overthrown before thee; deal thus with them in the time of thine anger.

    Notice the words "and" and "neither", which are words of 'in addition, added to, conjunction, moreover, besides, also' - the definition of and

    Furthermore we can re-examine the term "blot[ted] out", and see that it cannot mean of itself to "cover", as already shown:

    Psalm 69:28 - Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

    Psalm 109:13 - Let his posterity be cut off; [and] in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

    Psalm 109:14 - Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
     
  17. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    # 6 still debunked:

    What then of the passages referred to in Psalms 51:1,9 and Isaiah 44:22? Look at the context, and modifiers especially of Isaiah 44:22:

    Isaiah 44:22 - I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

    Notice in this instance, there are word modifiers to "blot out", being "as a thick cloud" and "as a cloud", which alters the definition, from destroy completely to cover/conceal completely, as in blot out from sight, but not blot out from existence. This is how "clouds" in scripture are spoken as "covering" something, concealing it from view, but not causing it to cease from existence.

    For instance:

    Exodus 24:15 - And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.

    Exodus 24:16 - And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.

    Exodus 40:34 - Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

    We can see that when a "cloud" "covers" something, even as the "waters "cover" the sea", or thick clouds the Sun, or the "blood of the Lamb" "covers" sin/s, it is not gone, but concealed behind something, as clothing covers, as Christ's righteousness:

    Job 36:32 - With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it [not to shine] by [the cloud] that cometh betwixt.

    Job 38:9 - When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,

    Psalm 105:39 - He spread a cloud for a covering; and fire to give light in the night.

    Lamentations 3:44 - Thou hast covered thyself with a cloud, that [our] prayer should not pass through.

    Ezekiel 32:7 - And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

    Is the Sea gone being covered by waters? Is the Sun removed from existence being covered by the thick clouds? Is then the sins blotted out from existence from being covered as a thick cloud covers, or are they still in existence but out of present sight?

    This is the same as it is written here:

    Micah 7:19 - He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

    Notice, that the sins are still in existence at the bottom of the "depths of the sea", even "covered by the waters", yet still needing to be dealt with which is exactly what Psalms 51 speaks of when it refers to the sins of David being blotted out [vs 1,9], since he knew of the Day of Atonement, in regards the Sanctuary:

    Psalm 51:4 - Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.

    Notice the two step process: [1] Mercy/hide face = forgiveness, and [2] Blot out the sins:

    Psalm 51:1 - [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.]] Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

    Psalm 51:9 - [1] Hide thy face from my sins, and [2] blot out all mine iniquities.

    It is clear that God would not have to "hide [cover] his face" from David's or our sins if doing so is to actually "blot" them out. When the sins are truly "blotted out" God no longer has to "hide [cover] his face".

    This is why David could say, himself knowing, that there was no other "pattern" of way, and required the High Priest, the Sanctuary, Ark, Blood, confessed and forsaken sin, and the Day of Atonement [Leviticus 16, 23] etc:

    Psalms 77:33 - Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

    Exodus 28:15 - And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; [of] gold, [of] blue, and [of] purple, and [of] scarlet, and [of] fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.

    Exodus 28:29 - And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy [place], for a memorial before the LORD continually.

    Exodus 28:30 - And thou shalt put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim; and they shall be upon Aaron's heart, when he goeth in before the LORD: and Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel upon his heart before the LORD continually.

    For if in the Day of Atonement the confessed sin was not actually forsaken, or other sins picked up in its place and not confessed and also forsaken, that person could be "cut off" forever, no matter how many times they had come throughout the year with Sacrifice:

    Leviticus 23:29 - For whatsoever soul [it be] that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.

    This is made clear through the very "pattern" [Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4; 1 Chronicles 28:12,19; Hebrews 8:5, etc], in which in Leviticus 4, "an atonement" [Leviticus 4:20,26,31,35] could be made on any day throughout the Year, by a person bringing the required sacrifice, etc, and so that persons sins could be confessed over the sacrifice, transferred to the flesh and blood, and then the blood would be taken into the Sanctuary, where it was 'stored'.

    While the person was "free", "justified", "forgiven", "covered", that person then had to go forth from the gate of the Sanctuary with the realization of the cost of sin to the Son of God and walk no more in sin [transgression of the Law, the Ten Commandments], and the Priest, and later High Priest had further work to do. This is the difference between atonements made in Leviticus 4 throughout the year, and the very specific and necessary Atonement in Leviticus 16, 23, in the Once a Year, the Day of Atonement.

    Now, what has the "forgiven" sinner need of the Day of Atonement and that which is therein, if any such sinner had already throughout the year, already brought their sacrifice and was "covered" by the "blood" and "forgiven"? Much everything.

    Differing Atonements. The first is for forgiveness, the latter for blotting out of the record of sin therein stored in the Sanctuary and its "cleansing" [Leviticus 16:19, etc]. It has been shown you many times about the Books of Heaven, and the sins therein recorded, yet it is connected with God's own people here, since the sinning must be eliminated totally from their lives, iow the actual committing of sin must be put to death through Christ Jesus.
     
  18. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    #6 still debunked:

    speaking of the difference of the two things, [1] forgiveness and [2] blotting out:

    This is even seen in several other places, in various ways:

    1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    [1] Forgiveness

    [2] Cleansing

    Two distinct things.

    Thus turning again to Acts 3:19-21, is already shown to be in the context of moments after the Cross, even after Pentecost and leading up to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ:

    Acts 3:19 - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

    Acts 3:20 - And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

    Acts 3:21 - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    The saints do not get to escape judgment, though they have an Advocate, Jesus Christ the Righteous:

    Psalm 7:11 - God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day.

    Psalm 37:33 - The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.

    Ecclesiastes 3:17 - I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for [there is] a time there for every purpose and for every work.

    Ecclesiastes 12:14 - For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

    As stated, there are the record Books of Heaven:

    For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, [yet] thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD. Jeremiah 2:22

    Behold, [it is] written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, Isaiah 65:6

    Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom. Isaiah 65:7

    The "blotting out" in Colossians 2:14 is another matter entirely, since it deals with "handwriting" [Leviticus 8:36, 10:11; 2 Chronicles 35:6, etc] by Moses of "ordinances", speaking to the specific matters of "ordinances" [Numbers 9:12; Ezekiel 43:18, etc], hand written by Moses, in regards the Old Covenant ritual [see also Ephesians 2:15, "the law of commandments contained in ordinances" and Hebrews 9:1, "... the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary." and Hebrews 9:10 "Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."]:

    Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    Q. Where is the word sin/s used here in regards to the "blotting out" in vs 14?/s It is not found at all in vs 14 and the "blotting out" does not reference the sins of vs 13, but is specifically identified in vs 14. Furthermore in vs 20, we see the word "ordinances" again used in connection with "worldly" human things, "the rudiments of the world" and "subject to ordinances", which are listed in vs 21-23, -- 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

    The word "sins" is found in vs 13, but it speaks only of forgiven sins, which as demonstrated is not the same thing as sins "blotted out".
     
  19. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    #6 debunked!!!

    Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    Hebrews 1:3 is speaking of the 'purging' or the "washing away" of our past sins from us by the one time all sufficient propitiative sacrifice of Jesus, for the word [καθαρισμός] utilized is also found in 2 Peter 1:9, "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from 2512 his old sins."; and also used in Mark 1:44; Luke 2:22, 5:14; John 2:6, 3:25, besides Hebrews 1:3; 2 Peter 1:9. This is related to the word καθαρίζω, which means to cleanse, purify, or to free from the guilt of sin. Notice, it does not blot out any of the record of sin recorded in Heaven, but frees us from the guilt of past sins, by the forgiveness of past sins. Notice, none of the texts which uses the word καθαρισμός say anything about blotting out of the record of the sins in Heaven. This is why in Acts 22:16, and elsewhere, we may arise and "wash away [our] sins".

    Romans 3:25 - Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    Revelation 1:5 - And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    Psalms 85:2 - Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.

    But sin that is covered, is not blotted out, but remains to be dealt with still, therefore it is a period of probationary time granted, a time of testing, though we are free in Grace to live in obedience to His will [Psalms 40:8], we do not have to continue in abiding in Him, for our free choice is still ours, even throughout eternity, but if in spite of that Grace we live in sin still, Matthew 18, reveals, as did the type, there is the "Day of Atonement" to come to reckoning, and the payment could be reinstituted, and the person cut off of life forever.

    Though we, which are Christians, are washed of past sins, the blotting out of sins was/is still yet future, for there was yet more to be dealt with still, even as the type revealed, given unto us by God in the earthly sanctuary service. A person which sinned [1 John 3:4], could come throughout the year and make "an atonement", but that person's sin while removed from them in faith, from themselves, went unto/transfered unto another, and further work was to be done even from the gate - in both directions. Justification is worthless without sanctification. Forgiveness of sins, worthless without victory over sins. This is the Everlasting Gospel, and Christ Jesus proved that sinful flesh, by the power of the divine, could live righteously and without sin - thus sin was condemned in the sinful flesh, and there is no excuse for sin - none. Satan is the liar. Mankind can obey God, even in His Ten Commandments by the indwelling of God in them, and every thought may be brought into subjection to Christ. Yes, we can have victory over every temptation and sin, here, now, in this life, even beginning this very moment - and we may do it even as Christ overcame.

    Acts 3:19 - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

    "may be", "shall come", and in the context of the very next verse "ὅπως" [so that; 'and'],

    Acts 3:20 - And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

    Acts 3:21 - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    James speaks about the same:

    Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. James 5:7

    Other texts to consider on the refreshing and latter rains, Deuteronomy 11:14; Job 29:23; Proverbs 16:15; Jeremiah 3:3 [especially that one], 5:24; Joel 2:23; Hosea 6:3; Zechariah 10:1 and Isaiah 28:12; Deuteronomy 32:2; Revelation 11:6; James 5:17; 1 Kings 17:1, 18:1,44-45; Matthew 7:25,27 [and that Latter Rain will come, and will ripen the Wheat Harvest, and also the Tare Harvest, the Rain comes to both, even as the Sun softens one, hardens another...]

    Notice, that the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, which Christ will have then blotted out the sins in the Heavenly Most Holy, and then the Father sends Jesus Christ the second time after ward, as it is written:

    Hebrews 9:28 - So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    Hosea 6:3 - Then shall we know, [if] we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter [and] former rain unto the earth.

    God will be vindicated, Romans 3:4. Not only did God prove it in Christ Jesus the Head, He is going to fulfill His promise and prove it many times over in the "144,000", for He will have taken sinners, and brought them about to the uttermost, into being total overcomers in sinful flesh - never to sin again, beginning on this earth, ready to be translated.

    Behold and marvel ye heavens, be humbled o earth, for what God is about to bring forth, never will be seen again throughout eternity!

    As the Head [Christ] was victorious and bruised the head of the serpent, even so the foot [of His body, the last portion, the remnant of the body] by Christ Jesus will so completely crush the serpent [Romans 16:20].

    Scripturally there are multiple "atonements", for instance:

    an "atonement" that could be done throughout the year on any day, "daily":

    Leviticus 4:20 - And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

    Leviticus 4:26 - And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

    Leviticus 4:31 - And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn [it] upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

    Leviticus 4:35 - And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

    but "forgiveness" of sins, and this "an atonement" does not blot anything out of the record of that sin. The sinner was forgiven at the very gate, but more was then needed from that point onward, and could not be finalized until the Day of Atonement - see also Matthew 18, etc. Forgiveness/remission is but the covering of sin, not the blotting out of sin. Another thing that these passages reveal is that sin is not merely being born, but something that is "committed" [see also 1 John 3:4], and also even something omitted.

    Q. Yet if truly atoned and forgiven, why the need for the Day of Atonement services, which are a type?

    Q. If forgiveness blotted out sin, why the need to remove, in the type, that which was in type, stored daily, and throughout the year?

    It is simple, forgiveness does not blot out sin. To blot out sin, another work is needed.

    and so there is the final "atonement" that could only be made once in the year, the Day of Atonement, that every single person must go through, or be cut off [Yom Kippur]:

    Leviticus 23:28 - And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it [is] a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.

    #6 is debunked, unless one is a stubborn OSAS defender, and then there is nothing I can do, except say, go back and look at the examples of King Saul in the OT and Ananias and Sapphira in the NT, among others, see Hebrews 6, and especially see Hebrews and Revelation, etc.
     
  20. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    #7, let's see if the narrator is lucky to not be debunked this time:
    (not a chance, it was over before it even started)

    [Time Index: 8:17 – 9:10] Who bears our sins?

    Ellen White says, “Satan” (according to the video) and cites The Great Controversy (1888,1911), pages 422,485,486:

    “... It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. ...” - The Great Controversy (1911), pages 422.2

    “... Christ will place all these sins upon Satan ...” - The Great Controversy (1911); page 485.3

    “... so Satan ...” - The Great Controversy (1911); page 485.3

    “... he will at last suffer the [page 485-486] full penalty of sin ...” - The Great Controversy (1911), page 486

    The Bible says, “Jesus” (according to the video) and cites 1 Peter 2:24; Hebrews 9:28:

    1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    Notice the word 'finally' (be placed) in the Great Controversy quote. Which means that, “Yes” sister White said, as the Bible says, that Jesus bore our sins, and notice the very text the narrator quoted, Hebrews 9:28, that Jesus took out sins, bore them, but when He comes back He is no longer bearing the sins. What happened to them?:

    Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    Here is the full context of the pages of the Great Controversy (1911) citations:

    “... Thus those who followed in the light of the prophetic word saw that, instead of coming to the earth at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844, Christ then entered the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary to perform the closing work of atonement preparatory to His coming.

    It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scapegoat. When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty. The scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, never to come again into the congregation of Israel. So will Satan be forever banished from the presence of God and His people, and he will be blotted from existence in the final destruction of sin and sinners. ...” - The Great Controversy (1911), pages 422.2

    “... The work of the investigative judgment and the blotting out of sins is to be accomplished before the second advent of the Lord. Since the dead are to be judged out of the things written in the books, it is impossible that the sins of men should be blotted out until after the judgment at which their cases are to be investigated. But the apostle Peter distinctly states that the sins of believers will be blotted out “when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and He shall send Jesus Christ.” Acts 3:19, 20. When the investigative judgment closes, Christ will come, and His reward will be with Him to give to every man as his work shall be.

    In the typical service the high priest, having made the atonement for Israel, came forth and blessed the congregation. So Christ, at the close of His work as mediator, will appear, “without sin unto salvation” (Hebrews 9:28), to bless His waiting people with eternal life. As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin. The scapegoat, bearing the sins of Israel, was sent away “unto a land not inhabited” (Leviticus 16:22); so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate, without inhabitant, and he will at last suffer the [page 485-486] full penalty of sin in the fires that shall destroy all the wicked. Thus the great plan of redemption will reach its accomplishment in the final eradication of sin and the deliverance of all who have been willing to renounce evil.

    At the time appointed for the judgment—the close of the 2300 days, in 1844—began the work of investigation and blotting out of sins. All who have ever taken upon themselves the name of Christ must pass its searching scrutiny. Both the living and the dead are to be judged “out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.”

    Sins that have not been repented of and forsaken will not be pardoned and blotted out of the books of record, but will stand to witness against the sinner in the day of God. He may have committed his evil deeds in the light of day or in the darkness of night; but they were open and manifest before Him with whom we have to do. Angels of God witnessed each sin and registered it in the unerring records. Sin may be concealed, denied, covered up from father, mother, wife, children, and associates; no one but the guilty actors may cherish the least suspicion of the wrong; but it is laid bare before the intelligences of heaven. The darkness of the darkest night, the secrecy of all deceptive arts, is not sufficient to veil one thought from the knowledge of the Eternal. God has an exact record of every unjust account and every unfair dealing. He is not deceived by appearances of piety. He makes no mistakes in His estimation of character. Men may be deceived by those who are corrupt in heart, but God pierces all disguises and reads the inner life.

    How solemn is the thought! Day after day, passing into eternity, bears its burden of records for the books of heaven. Words once spoken, deeds once done, can never be recalled. Angels have registered both the good and the evil. The mightiest conqueror upon the earth cannot call back the record of even a single day. Our acts, our words, even our most secret motives, all have their weight in deciding our destiny for weal or woe. ...” The Great Controversy (1911); page 485.3 to The Great Controversy (1911), page 486

    Notice sister White clearly states that Jesus bore our sins (but not forever):

    “... “Know ye not that ... ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price.” 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20. What a price has been paid for us! Behold the cross, and the Victim uplifted upon it. Look at those hands, pierced with the cruel nails. Look at His feet, fastened with spikes to the tree. Christ bore our sins in His own body. That suffering, that agony, is the price of your redemption. The word of command was given: “Deliver them from going down to perish eternally. I have found a ransom.” ...” - Testimonies to the Church, Volume 6 (1901), page 479.2
     
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