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Pro-Life vs Pro-Choice : same ideologies-different groups

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by JonC, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Jon. That is dishonesty and a low that I would not think one would stoup to. It is not proven that in the long term vaccines will save lives. Most antivaxers believe that in the long term, the vaccine will cost more lives than it saves. That is not the case with abortion. Abortion is a clear cut case of murder. No one wants anyone to die in the vax debate. We just differ on which option ultimately will save more lives.
     
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It is impossible to prove now what may come in the future.

    It has, however, been proven that vaccines save lives in the present. And it has been proven that the unvaccinated with covid are at least 15x more likely to die of covid than the vaccinated who get covid.

    So in that sense, we know that atleast in the resent vaccines save lives.

    There are a lot of similarities between both pro-choice categories.

    Both view their rights above the lives of others.
    Both are focused on their rights over their bodies.
    Both deny or minimize the harm to other human beings.
    Both point to deaths that could occur should their agenda fail to defend their views.

    In fact, I am not sure there is much difference between a pro-choice anti-covi-vaxer and a oro-choice-abortionist. I understand their victims are different. But the ideologies are identical.

    BTW, I didn't write the article.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Now we have a new liberal argument against any sound view. Why in the future it may turn out that the ...(conservative view) will cost more lives than it saves. But couldn't abortion proponents say that due to the future overpopulation, abortions now will save more lives?

    Beware the pig in the poke sales spiel.
     
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    You agree with the article.
    What we have here is a disagreement over what will ultimately save more lives.
    Abortion is purely about murder.
    There is no comparison

    You need to look closely at MU variant. Many of the most adamant pro vax doctors are terrified that thee vaccinated might be more vulnerable to MU than the unvaxed. The issue is not as clear cut as you would like to make it.

    My pro-vax doc told me that he is disturbed that the vaccines have not been updated. He said he feels like what we are doing is akin to giving booster shots of the flu variant from two years ago to try to protect against next year's flu. You don't give more of a failing vax, you update the vax.
     
    #5 Reynolds, Sep 14, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  6. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Okay, allow me to use myself as an example

    I have a lot of trouble wearing a mask-as I do have breathing problems.

    When I went to Wegmans or Walmart - and face coverings were required, I would take a scarf with me. When I
    would go to the store - and others were around - I would cover my mouth with my scarf.(not tightly) No one else around
    I would drop the scarf. When I got to the check out - I would stay the 2 meters away - but I would lean against my cart due to the headache I would normally get. Often I would take an aspirin to help said headache.
    There were times, when I got back to my vehicle - I would have to wait several minutes - sometimes 10 or more, because it would have been unsafe to drive - and mind you - that was after just having my face covering on only half the time I was in the store.

    So many of us DO NOT view our rights above others.
    I just don't want them demanding that their rights are more important than mine.
     
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  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You didn’t write but you seem to agree with it.

    This is utter rubbish. To compare someone who is not sure of this very new vaccine to the baby murder crowd is utter rubbish!!!

    Shame on you

    peace to you
     
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree with the article in that these are the same ideologies. The pro-abortion people also believe they are saving lives (the lives of the mothers) which, granted, is sacrificing more lives to "save" the fewer. The anti-covid-vaccibe people are the same (thus was even mentioned on a recent thread .... that it is not worth risking the few to save the many). What we know so far (what the evidence has shown) is that the vaccine has risks but it saves many more than it harms.

    The ideology and justification is exactly the same.
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree with parts of the article.

    Shame on you for not wanting other opinions to be heard.

    Have you not heard "eat the meat, spit out the bones"?
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This is the part that is very similar to pro-choice. Those who support vaccines do not do so simply because they want the right to get shots. Most probably do not like getting shots or experiencing side-effects (no matter how mild). Theyvset aside their desires to help protect the lives of other people. This mindset is absent anti-covid-vaxers.

    They do not believe the lives of people are more important than their rights.

    That said, there are exceptions. I certainly would not condemn a woman for choosing a life saving procedure that endangers her unborn baby. I would empathize as that would be a difficult decision to make.

    But I do judge as sin those who would put another human being in harm simply because they want to maintain the right to their own body.
     
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    State your opinion. When others “opinions” slander Christian men and women, I’ll call them out.

    It is estimated at least 100 million Americans have had the virus and recovered. Many millions of them are professing Christians.

    The research shows those with natural immunity have 27 times the immunity as those who received the vaccine. Most studies have shown people who have recovered from covid get no additional benefit from the vaccine.

    Very reasonable people can conclude the vaccine is not worth the small risk of complications.

    You are slandering several tens of millions of Christians when you claim they have the same ideology as the baby murder crowd.

    Shame on you

    peace to you
     
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  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    The ideology is totally different.
    Pro abortion do no believe they are saving the life of the mother. They believe they are saving the lifestyle of the mother. Huge difference!
     
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  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    If the vax works as good as it's supposed to, the unvaxed can not be a danger to y'all. Oh wait, Vax does not really work all that good. Joe and Faucci lied. You can't have it both ways.
     
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  14. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    @JonC . So, By most any estimate you see, the vaxes fail against MU. No sizeable study has them over 50%. Many studies showing vaccinated are more susceptible to MU than nonvaxed.
    By your logic, all you vaxed people have blood on your hands. You know the data on MU and are still pushing people to get the shots to make you feel safer.
     
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Sorry....I missed you calling out @SGO for His opinion Christians who are pro-vaccination are like Nazis.

    I'll look again.

    That said, I never said that pro-choice anti-vovvine-vaxers support abortion. I said they share the same ideology. And I believe they do.
     
  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    And you are wrong. The ideology is totally different.
     
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  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You are mistaking. Not all do belueve they are saving the mothers life, but most do. They believe if abortion is made illegal tge mother will find riskier means of obtaining an abortion.
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. It is the same. For example a young man with an appendicitis had his appendix rupture. Why? Was he late getting to a hospital? No. He was there but was waiting because the hospital was too full of covid patients where most could have avoided serious illness by being vaccinated. As more people die because of the anti-covid-vaccination agenda you will probably see more social outcry against this pro-choice group.
     
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    They do not share the same ideology. That is a complete mid-characterization of their ideology.

    They don’t “value their lives above the lives of others”. That is nonsense.

    They don’t trust what the government is saying because 1. Those with natural immunity are rarely included in the studies. 2. The government officials have repeatedly lied about this virus, the effectiveness of masks, the need for children to be vaccinated/masked and so on. 3. They view this response as overreach that lays the foundation to a “health emergency” as pretext to attack other constitutional rights.

    What this link is saying is nothing more than anti-Christian, left wing propaganda designed to intimidate and shame Christians into accepting the official government position by claiming their ideology is the same as the baby murder crowd.

    I doubt any minds will change due to this.

    Ive said my peace. I’ll leave you to it.

    peace to you
     
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    MU?
     
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