Prolife across the board

Ok, I will take a second look for you. Here is the first scripture mentioned....

Now where do we find the topic of "Depraved Nature" in the OP? And what does the scripture posted have to do with Capital Punishment or Warfare?

Here is a second mention of scripture....

The OP does not ask if abortion is murder or not murder. In fact, it is no longer allowed to be debated. Abortion is declared murder by this board's authorities and it is no longer a debateable subject. So this post is off the OP topic as well.

Guess what? That is all there is! Two post. So there has not been "several" scriptures posted and there has been ZERO scriptures posted concerning the OP topic which is "Warfare" and "Capital Punsihment".

Hello to you as well my brother! :wavey:

 

Thanks, HP! :wavey:

Yes, usually in the case of ectopic pregnancies, where the unborn child is not in the uterus but in the Fallopian tubes or elsewhere. If this continues, both mother and child will likely die. In almost all such cases (at least where the baby is in the tubes), the child cannot live.

These cases are a very small percentage of abortions.

Yes, I think we can rely on doctors in cases where they say the life of the mother is in danger. There are still situations where the mother could choose to take the risk, such as having a heart problem. The doctors might warn the mother but the mother could still risk it in order to have the child. In the more extreme cases, however, such as ectopic pregnancies, there is little or no chance for the baby to live and in some cases, a very high chance the mother could die.

 

To turn the other cheek does not have to do with self-defense but means to not return insult for insult.

 

Steaver, here are a couple of passages that speak to the two issue you spoke about.

Ge 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

HP: A clear cut admonition from God to man. It indeed not only justifies the death penalty but commands it to be carried out.

Ro 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

HP: It is clear that God has ordained governments to carry the sword as a necessary means of stopping evil aggression. One simply has to determine what side they stand on and which government and system of government is just in their cause. I stand with governments that promote freedom and support those that God has made a covenant with and promised to bless them that bless Israel. It is not hard to know that we all but stand alone on both fronts, especially as true friend of Israel.

 

HP: I would agree with you once again. I believe wisdom and does as well. :thumbs:

I am reminded where Christ told His disciples the following: Lu 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Peter carried a sword as most likely others as well. Certainly Peter used it once and was told by Christ to put it up, but again He did not tell him he should never carry one or use it under different circumstances. Self defense, and the use of force to stop aggressors against ones family or the innocents or those unable to help themselves is certainly justifiable.

 

Good scriptures for the Captial punishment side of this issue for sure.

Not so sure this can be used as supporting self-defense. Are you saying Christ is literally teaching His disciples to get ready to fight with swords those who will be coming to kill them?

I don't see any accounts in the NT of Christians taking up swords against their enemies. Do you? I see stonings and killings but no accounts of a Christian fighting back unto death.

I looked up the Greek and "smite" means to slap. This is physical and not merely name calling.

We are instructed to imitate Christ (1Th 1:6) . Would Jesus defend His life with a sword? Stephen didn't. Paul didn't. There is no testimony of any of the disciples drawing a sword anytime after the ressurrection of Christ. Peter drew one during Jesus' ministry here on earth and was told to put it away.

 

It sure feels justifiable, but where is the NT scripture justifying it? Why didn't any of the disciples fight when they were persecuted and stoned?

 

HP: I certainly follow your thinking, and believe your questions are indeed justified, but I cannot, for myself, believe that one can argue from silence, i.e., if there are no specific illustrations in Scripture it must not have been the right course of action. That may not entirely be your position or the one you are arguing for, but it comes to mind as I read your post. I know you said you are studying the issue as well as all of us as well. What I believe today I may not in some time in the future, and I certainly believe that there are times one would not defend oneself against aggression but rather leave the results to the Lord. I can only hope and pray that when the time arises that I will be lead of the Holy Spirit as to the course of self defense or non-resistance I should take.

I can again see a possible time for both. If it is a matter that the mind clearly sees as ‘for the cause of Christ’ it might be far easier to resign oneself to the Lord in non resistance. Again, I believe that those lead of the Spirit of God will make the right decision as we face such difficult circumstances. For now I do not make any hard and fast rules as which way to take any more than I try and decide every word I would speak beforehand if brought before a judge over my faith. I must trust in the Lord to exercise wisdom in each and everything we might face.

In the meantime, I will keep my powder dry. :thumbs:

 

Excellent post my friend and very thought provoking points. :thumbsup:

(Now why don't you understand OSAS :tongue3: Oh well, none of us are perfect! :laugh: )

You reminded me of the music threads where some wanted to argue there should not be any instruments used in worship because the NT did not command it. These same folks admitted to bowing their heads and closing their eyes to pray even though the NT gives no command to do so. We can't have it both ways. THanks for the reminder!

I have always believed self-defense is justifiable, I hadn't thought about applying the silence factor to it. I believe you may have ended this thread! :wavey: Good job brother!