I meant between me and you talking. We were discussing predestination. Look at the OP table again and the defining cross-references. No one, in 7 pages, has yet disproved the OP with defining cross-references [which distinguish between the salvation of a lost man and the predestinated inheritance of believers] or by providing a verse where a lost man is predestinated unto salvation. Instead of thinly veiled scorn, how about you simply provide one such verse? Again, if you refer to Romans 8:29, you must then correct the OP table with defining cross-references. Until then, I wait.
I've noticed you say this about most of your posts.
I'll not comment on your subjective evaluations.
I think Paul has already corrected your OP.
We are predestined to be called, justified and glorified, per v. 30.
You can deny this, but Paul said it.
You ignored this word (justified) in your OP.
Perhaps you're not a big fan of Paul.
Either way, the debate is not about whether or not we're predestined to be saved (justified, glorified).
The debate is on what basis.
Reading comprehension skills?
The verse says those he called He justified, there is a progression going on here.
God foreknows His people, He then predestines them, then God calls them, then God justifies them, then God glorifies them.
And these are all in the past tense, not present tense, meaning they are already as if accomplished in the Spirit from before the foundation of the earth, and they are just being walked out as God has preordained them to be as He has desired in God's perfect time for us.
And it can not be undone what God has decreed, their salvation is secure. No one is born saved, God has foreknown them saved as His people and so then they are His people, His children.
God declares things that are not as though they were.
I did.
The OP is worthless because it ignores the word justified.
It's incoherent.
All one has to do is read Romans 8:30 to completely dismiss your thesis.
Paul's word is inspired and sufficient.
Your incomplete OP table is neither.
Maybe you can't see my point maybe because you've never encountered it before. You may still disagree, but let me explain it:
Rom 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The predestination of Romans 8:30 is the predestination of Romans 8:29. The predestination of Romans 8:29 is a predestination of the believer [and one must first show that that predestination happens exclusively in eternity past and not at all at the moment of one's salvation] to obtain a resurrection body like Christ's resurrection body. This was demonstrated in the OP with defining cross-references. Now, in v.30, Paul is saying: whom he did predestinate [the believers, whose destiny God fixed to obtain a certain inheritance and a resurrection body like unto his Son's] God first had to "call" them and "justify" them and "glorify" them in Christ Jesus. You don't get a resurrection body like unto Christ's unless you've been justified by faith in Christ.
Ephesians also has this word predestined and its in reference to certain people God predestined to be saved. God 'chose us in Him', before we were born to be in Christ to the praise of the glory of His grace. Not the predestination of believers, because they could not believe who had not yet been born.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.
As I've tried to explain to you, even Arminians, who agree with you that Paul is speaking about predestination of believers whom he foreknew, would disagree with you.
Either way, regardless of your view of foreknowledge, we are destined to be named (called), saved (justified) and raised up on the last day (glorified).
All of these follow predestination, which is based on God's foreknowledge (eternity past).
I think you need to think further on these things.
Right, only Paul did not say that. He only said that believers are predestinated to be conformed to the image of God's son [his physical resurrection body as pointed out by defining cross-references in the OP].
He doesn't say what?
That those predestined are called, justified and glorified?
I'm sorry, but you're simply ignoring the plain written word, which is leading you to great confusion.
You need to study this issue further.
Of course the predestinated are called, justified, and glorified. They just weren't predestinated to be called, justified, and glorified. Very different wordings and meanings my friend.
The called/justified/glorified get predestinated to get a resurrection body like Christ and an inheritance.
That's what it's saying. And that's what the cross-references in the OP confirm.