Although I do not enjoy a mega-church as much as I normally do a smaller church (100-500), I have found that someone can get just as lost in a small church as in a large one. The large churches I have attended have always had smaller groups, such as Sunday school classes or cell groups, to aid in making people feel like they are a part of the whole.
I believe it is mostly a matter of opinion as to what size church a person feels comfortable in. The important thing is that they preach the Word of God and plainly proclaim the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Question about "mega" churches
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by HeDied4U, Sep 29, 2002.
Page 2 of 4
-
-
"Mega church" does not mean mega spirituality!
Nor does micro chirch mean mega spiritually.
It seems that no one has a good answer for my question: If a church's attendance gets larger and large over the years, what's it supposed to do? Close its doors and turn people away, and tell people to go somewhere else?
The fact that many megachurches have multiple sunday morning services but only one sunday evening service simply means that people don't like to go Sunday evening. I hate going on Sunday evening. I've always liked starting my week by going to church first. At my church, I used to go Sunday evening to avoid the crowd. But now we have three am services, so I son't go on Sunday evenings anymore. I don't see the relevance. -
I personally see nothing wrong with mega churches. The way I have seen most of them thrive is thru soul winning, a good Sunday School outreach program, and making people feel welcomed. A lot of small Sunday School classes is a great way to keep people from never knowing anyone in a 'mega' church.
[ September 30, 2002, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Kuntry Boy ] -
I know those are two extreme examples, but, how on earth any church can justify spending over a half million dollars on animatronics, etc. is beyond me.
On the other hand...
Soli Deo Gloria,
Chris -
Personally, I think a "mega" church is the result of a Pastor with a "mega" ego. I have a problem with churches where people are driving 2 hours on Sun. morn just so they can hear some dynamic speaker. What are they going to church for anyway? They should branch out into smaller sattelite churches.
-
Someone said they don't like the small church because of the "family power" and usually a one family control of the whole thing.
Well, here goes nothing. Move your letter to the Mega-church and then try to move in toward the inner core. I guarantee--the mega church is just as much controlled by a core group of families as the smaller church. Its just that the mega church is so "mega" that folks fail to see the struggle. The faces of the President's carved on Mount Rushmore all look fine from a distance--but get yourself a rope and some climbing shoes and start climbing up with your nose about six inches from the rocks--and you will find all sorts of flaws--undetectable from a distance.
Your friend,
Blackbird -
I think a "mega" church is the result of a Pastor with a "mega" ego.
If this is a generalization, I'd have to disagree. What makes a church large is its membership. Again my question. If small churches get full, what are they supposed to do, turn people away? No. Either add more services or increase the sanctuary to accommodate the additional people.
If the church gets to the size that it's labeled a "mega" church by its critics, just keep on being a church and let the Holy Spirit worry about the critics.
[ September 30, 2002, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ] -
Jonathan has asked,
Johnv asks,
God Bless!!!
Adam :cool: -
I live near a "mega" church (i think they're presbyterian... not sure) that has a membership of about 8,000 people. My understanding is that most of those people live within 1/2 hour of the church. The founding pastor was there some 30 years, and the senior pastor there now has been there for some 20 years. Of course, it's also in the middle of a metropolitan area that supports that kind of membership. I think that's the difference between living in Los Angeles Califirnia, and and living in Springdale Arkansas. What's a "mega" church in Springdale may not be one here.
We don't hear the label applied to churches like Thomas Road in Virginia or the Washington National Cathedral in our nation's capital, or even St Patrick's Cathedral in New York. So it seems the label might be ann attempt to put a negative connotation on whatever organizations gets stick with it. -
I don't think all these generalizations about 'mega-churchs' are true. I have gone/go to two so called mega-churches. To me, they never seemed "large". Sure they had a lot of members but its easy to get involved/connected and in touch through Sunday School and other activities. The way they set up the church and "chain of command" make it hard for new people to "slip through the cracks" and become just seat warmers. From parking lot greeters to phone calls after the service and throughout the week, it makes the church seem warm, friendly and not so large. The reason both these churches are large is because of weekly outreach. Every Wednesday, the members go out and share their faith. Then the new christians then go to that church. At the church I go to now, it is "mega" and is sending out church planters all over the world. God has blessed these two churches and many other mega churches that are biblically sound.
-
Far from being "out of control", these churches are reaching lots of families with the resources God has given them. This is how they "justify" spending lots of money. If one soul is worth more than all the money in the world, I think a church is justified in spending what God has given them to reach people where they are.
So before you jump the gun and speak about issues of which you have no clue, understand that God uses a lot of methods to get out His message.
Thank God for these churches who are willing to meet kids & families where they are with the Gospel. -
Far from being "out of control", these churches are reaching lots of families with the resources God has given them. This is how they "justify" spending lots of money. If one soul is worth more than all the money in the world, I think a church is justified in spending what God has given them to reach people where they are.
So before you jump the gun and speak about issues of which you have no clue, understand that God uses a lot of methods to get out His message.
Thank God for these churches who are willing to meet kids & families where they are with the Gospel.</font>[/QUOTE]Haven't you forgotten the Baptist national pastime: ridiculing and condemning those who work harder and see greater Great Commission results than us.
Most of us tend to admire Spurgeon. But I would bet that a bunch of us would speak harshly of his methods were we leading smaller churches in his day. -
-
Haven't you forgotten the Baptist national pastime: ridiculing and condemning those who work harder and see greater Great Commission results than us.
Most of us tend to admire Spurgeon. But I would bet that a bunch of us would speak harshly of his methods were we leading smaller churches in his day.Click to expand...
I was told early in my ministry that if you are getting kicked from the rear it is usually b/c you are out in front. Not a bad cliche to remember. -
Time to buckle your seat belts, here we go! :D
Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
Since I know all the parties you have mentioned here personally (including the owner and CEO of Wacky World -- he was led to Christ by my brother [children's pastor at FBC Springdale] and just spent a weekend at our church), I will simply say that you should not speak when you are very uninformed of the motives and intent of these churches and individuals.Click to expand...
Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
You got it. I have often said that those who want to quote Spurgeon the most are often the same ones who would refuse to have him in their pulpit if he were alive today.Click to expand...Again, providing amusement is in direct antagonism to the teaching and life of Christ and all His apostles. What was the attitude of the Church to the world? "Ye are the salt," not sugar candy-something the world will spite out, not swallow. Short and sharp was the utterance, "Let the dead bury their dead." He was in awful earnestness!Click to expand...
James 1:27- Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.Click to expand...Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
Since the implementation of these modern facilities, scores of individuals (including whole families) have come to Christ. Flannelgraph of yesteryears served the same purpose. These methods are simply tools in the Master's hand to communicate the gospel in a relevant fashion.Click to expand...
Originally posted by Jonathan:
Haven't you forgotten the Baptist national pastime: ridiculing and condemning those who work harder and see greater Great Commission results than us.Click to expand...
Originally posted by Jonathan:
Most of us tend to admire Spurgeon. But I would bet that a bunch of us would speak harshly of his methods were we leading smaller churches in his day.Click to expand...
My first contention is that providing amusement for the people is nowhere spoken of in the Scriptures as a function of the church. If it is a Christian work, why did not Christ speak of it? "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15). That is clear enough. So it would have been if he had added, "and provide amusement for those who do not relish the gospel." No such words, however, are to be found. It did not seem to occur to him.Click to expand...
Chris -
Personally, I think none of us know the motives of any church and how they spend their money, except those directly involved.
The appeal to help children in other parts of the world certainly touches my heart (though Africa is where I donate money), but unless a church is committed to that ministry, it will fail miserably. If a church spends millions to win souls in their own town/state and are committed, it will flourish. Who are we to question it? And vice-versa.
I think we could all focus on our own churches and what its commitment is. Is it effective? -
I am afraid it is exactly because you know all of the parties involved that you lack the ability to view the situation with objectivity.Click to expand...
I feel I can speak when I see fellow believers doing things that I think are misguided.Click to expand...
I would call it misguided to criticize methods with which you may personally disagree, but since you are not the sole authority on what is appropriate and what is not, guess what????
That's right, you have no grounds. :rolleyes:
We try to back up everything we do by saying things like, "If just one got saved, it is all worth it." Well, how many of those kids being baptized in that fire truck are now going to have a false sense of assurance that they are saved? I mean, what kid would not want to be baptized in a fire truck like that?Click to expand...
God doesn't need a fire truck, or animatronics to save people.Click to expand...
If we would spend more time preaching the Gospel (which IS the power of God unto salvation) and less time dreaming up and designing and building these ridiculous amusements, maybe God would bless the effort and draw more people to Himself.Click to expand...
I almost laugh out loud when I hear "maybe God would bless the effort and draw more people to Himself". As I mentioned before, scores of people have come to Christ thru these tools. Just imagine what could happen if they went to bare walls and sitting on the floor!!! Your hole is getting deeper.
Why in the world are we in the church being influenced more by the world than we are being an influence on the world?Click to expand...
God doesn't need our help to make the Gospel relevant, I think He has done a fine job of that on His own. We act like God needs us to come up with all these neat gimmicks to draw people into the church before He can save them. God doesn't use confetti to save people, He uses His Word.Click to expand...
No God doesn't need our help, but that is never an excuse to be irrelevant! :D
There sure are a lot of people being saved in China right now, and how do you think it is happening? Not with $595,000 animatronics, but by the Gospel being preached and heard and read and the Holy Spirit working in the lives of unbelievers to bring them to repentance.Click to expand...
On a final note, you are using some type of method to reach people -- whether it be a gospel tract or a flannelgraph story or a puppet. There are very few churches that are not employing some method. The problem is most of them stem from 1902 instead of 2002.
Most of those I have ever heard criticizing others who are presenting the gospel in a clear and relevent way are those who are doing very little themselves. I hope you don't fit the stereotype, but based upon your response .... -
Originally posted by Optional:
Personally, I think none of us know the motives of any church and how they spend their money, except those directly involved.
The appeal to help children in other parts of the world certainly touches my heart (though Africa is where I donate money), but unless a church is committed to that ministry, it will fail miserably. If a church spends millions to win souls in their own town/state and are committed, it will flourish. Who are we to question it? And vice-versa.
I think we could all focus on our own churches and what its commitment is. Is it effective?Click to expand...
And, btw, aren't we all a part of the one body of Christ? We don't need to isolate ourselves in our own little congregations and not worry about the rest of the body. Each congregation is just a small part of the larger body of Christ.
Also, I don't think I have yet questioned the motives of these churches. I think their motives are commendable, just a bit misguided.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Chris -
Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I am afraid it is exactly because you know all of the parties involved that you lack the ability to view the situation with objectivity.Click to expand...
Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I feel I can speak when I see fellow believers doing things that I think are misguided.Click to expand...
I would call it misguided to criticize methods with which you may personally disagree, but since you are not the sole authority on what is appropriate and what is not, guess what????
That's right, you have no grounds. </font>[/QUOTE]Dude, chill! :D Who says I don't have a right to criticize? Seems like someone may be a bit touchy about the subject, huh? I'm just calling it like I see it.
Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> We try to back up everything we do by saying things like, "If just one got saved, it is all worth it." Well, how many of those kids being baptized in that fire truck are now going to have a false sense of assurance that they are saved? I mean, what kid would not want to be baptized in a fire truck like that?Click to expand...
Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> God doesn't need a fire truck, or animatronics to save people.Click to expand...
If we would spend more time preaching the Gospel (which IS the power of God unto salvation) and less time dreaming up and designing and building these ridiculous amusements, maybe God would bless the effort and draw more people to Himself.Click to expand...
I almost laugh out loud when I hear "maybe God would bless the effort and draw more people to Himself". As I mentioned before, scores of people have come to Christ thru these tools. Just imagine what could happen if they went to bare walls and sitting on the floor!!! Your hole is getting deeper. </font>[/QUOTE]Whoever mentioned bare walls and sitting on the floor? Not me. There is a HUGE leap from bare walls and no pews all the way to "Toon Town".
You know, during Charles Finney's ministry, there were "scores of people" coming to Christ then too, but what happened to a lot of those people? They eventually fell away because there "seemed to be life", but there was no real fruit. Just an observation, take it for what it is worth (which may be nothing, who knows!)
Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> God doesn't need our help to make the Gospel relevant, I think He has done a fine job of that on His own. We act like God needs us to come up with all these neat gimmicks to draw people into the church before He can save them. God doesn't use confetti to save people, He uses His Word.Click to expand...
No God doesn't need our help, but that is never an excuse to be irrelevant! </font>[/QUOTE]As soon as someone in one of those churches walks on water...
Sorry bud, "apples and oranges."
Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
On a final note, you are using some type of method to reach people -- whether it be a gospel tract or a flannelgraph story or a puppet. There are very few churches that are not employing some method. The problem is most of them stem from 1902 instead of 2002.Click to expand...
Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
Most of those I have ever heard criticizing others who are presenting the gospel in a clear and relevent way are those who are doing very little themselves. I hope you don't fit the stereotype, but based upon your response ....Click to expand...
I noticed you did not mention in your reply anything about Spurgeon. Did you get a chance to read that article? I think he would agree with me (not that that amounts to much of anything!)
This is fun! Thanks!
Soli Deo Gloria,
ChrisClick to expand...Click to expand... -
As I told Optional, I don't feel I have judged their motives, just critiqued what I see money being spent on.Click to expand...
Dude, chill! Who says I don't have a right to criticize? Seems like someone may be a bit touchy about the subject, huh? I'm just calling it like I see it.Click to expand...
Just call them like I see them.
Ok, my comment there might have been a little too judgmental. Sorry about that! Forgive me?Click to expand...
Whoever mentioned bare walls and sitting on the floor? Not me. There is a HUGE leap from bare walls and no pews all the way to "Toon Town".Click to expand...
You know, during Charles Finney's ministry, there were "scores of people" coming to Christ then too, but what happened to a lot of those people? They eventually fell away because there "seemed to be life", but there was no real fruit. Just an observation, take it for what it is worth (which may be nothing, who knows!)Click to expand...
As soon as someone in one of those churches walks on water...
Sorry bud, "apples and oranges."Click to expand...
I noticed you did not mention in your reply anything about Spurgeon. Did you get a chance to read that article? I think he would agree with me (not that that amounts to much of anything!)Click to expand...
Let me ask a reverse question: should people be bored in church? Should there be nothing done that might "entertain" people? Should we eliminate anything someone might enjoy? Should our presentation be irrelevant?
I would say Spurgeon himself was swimming upstream in his culture.
Methods are merely ways to communicate the clear message (which should not be compromised).
Page 2 of 4