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Featured Question For My Reformed Brothers And Sistes, Will God Take Care Of Us?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Calv1, May 14, 2017.

  1. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    This is a very serious question, so your proper exegesis of the passages, or just general teachings that you know would be appreciated.

    I'll cite two places; One Jesus says to His disciples in Matthew 6:26, Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?

    He talks about the lilies, how beautiful they are dressed, then makes a similar comparison.

    The message is clear, 1. Do not worry about food or what you'll wear, if God takes care of birds and flowers, He'll take care of you.

    Philippians 4:19: My God shall supply all of your needs according to the riches of His glory in Jesus Christ>

    In this, it seems prior he is talking generally about giving, that he is glad they are giving, and sort of randomly puts that sentence in, not saying it doesn't go with the rest, it does, but Paul is talking about their Spiritual growth, and their giving as evidence of it, then says "My God shall....."

    This is what I don't understand, and is my question, over the last three years, I went from a successful business to losing my older brother, son and business crashing, the mom last year, now I'm facing poverty. Not only me, what of these Philippians, later they'd be brutalized by the Romans, jailed, killed, how is that taking care of all of their needs? Of even great Christians throughout the century, John Bunyan lived in abject poverty all his life, his daughter died basically of starvation, great Christian, his daughter died FOR LACK OF NEEDS MET.

    So brothers and sisters, what IS that answer, no traditions please, if we are a bible believing, Christ loving person will God take care of all of our needs? Or will He not? Thank You
     
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Calv1, over the past 7 years, I have lost 7 close family members. One to a heart attack, three to SMA, two to cancer and another to congestive heart failure. I was laid off from the job I loved and it took 4 years and a shift in career to gain full-time employment. Our families budget was very tight and waves of grief kept pouring over me. The book of Job was my constant companion. I kept going back to Job's words "Shall we praise God only for the good and not for the bad?"
    The question becomes: What does God consider a need?
    As you alude to, many many saints have suffered greatly and died horrifically. Some starved to death. Some died from painful disease. Did God somehow fail to provide what they needed?

    One of the things we struggle with, and we see often in our Arminian brothers, is we tend to create a definition of what "need" means and then we demand that God fulfill our definition. Job struggled with this. Job had a nice, neat theology of God...and then all hell was let loose on Job...and Job struggled to understand why God didn't act according to Job's prescriptive theology.
    We are ultimately left with trusting a Sovereign King whom we must believe in through all circumstances. Like Bunyan's character, Christian, we must go through the valley of the shadow of death and we must rest when God places us beside still waters.
    One quote from Spurgeon has resonated with me. He said, "I have learned to kiss the wave that casts me upon the Rock of Ages."
    My only words of encouragement is: Trust God with all your heart and kiss the wave that casts you upon our Great and Sovereign Rock. He will supply what you need, but you likely don't know what you need. Trust God.
     
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  3. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Thank you, yeah I'm with you, I must have read every commentary/sermon on Job there is. I even have the "Body covered with sores", a outbreak of Psoriasis from stress, not like his, I'm no Job, but pain is pain.

    I see people, perhaps they lose a child, like me there is nothing like it, but they have EACH OTHER, that's the thing that gets me, ALL MY FAMILY IS DEAD, so I don't have a wife to grieve with. I'm convinced emotional grief is the worst pain a man can have, physical pain? Nothing compared to imagining that sweet little innocent boy, it's like a fire, add to that all my money gone, and I always did well, $30-$40k a month, and it's grief/fear, not a good combination.

    My only saving grace is non-stop sermons, and the knowledge that God is doing it, I mean I can see His hand, I know that sounds presumptive, but IE perfect credit, apply for a loan, anyone else would get it, I ALREADY KNOW BEFORE APPLYING I'll be turned down, and for no reason, sure enough turned down. It's like that with everything, put together a great little business, did $7500.00 in three weeks, merchant account "We're sorry to inform you we must shut down your merchant account", again for NO REASON, no charge backs, no nothing, just God's hand. So I think "Why try", for I know it will fail.

    I've waited, well actually 2 years, nothing, I'm not giving in or up yet, the other night I was praising God and felt close to Him, I know there is a reason, don't know what it is. Yeah was reading a commentary, and the way God acted was to LOOK LIKE HE WAS ANGRY WITH JOB, think about it, he's the most righteous man, has all of these children, prays for them in case they do something wrong, has wealth, then in one swoop children are all killed, all wealthy wiped out in a minute, wife not sure he gets another so she may have died when she said "curse God and die", we don't know, then sores head to toe, then nightmares, basically no rest, Job said some amazing things "You have become like an enemy to me", and "I pray and you just look at me"

    Anyways thanks for your answer, and sorry for your loss, I know unless you're in it no one can truly relate. All I can think, my hope is that I KNOW God controls all things, and that only He can bring things back, I can see purpose in this great suffering, well I guess it's irrelevant what I see. Thanks
     
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  4. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    One more thing, it drives me crazy. I see IE my pastor, he's young, has a wife, 5 kids, he has everything, doesn't know suffering. Or my friend Zach, giant house, great business, 5 kids, gets whatever he wants.

    Hebrews 12 is ENORMOUS HELP, "If we do not suffer we are ILLEGITIMATE and not Children", I've lived in that chapter, or Peter "Suffering according to the will of God"
     
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  5. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    If I had Cancer, was going to die, but had loved ones who cared, I'd be joyful compared to this.
     
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    A paraphrase of something I read from A. W. Tozer has helped me in deep distress.
    He said, "The only place where heaven and earth meet and we experience God's presence is in the now. The past is gone. We can never change what was. The future may never be so we shouldn't spend our time dreaming of better days. The one place where we truly commune with God is in the present moment. At this very moment, as you read these words, God is present with you. Can you praise Him at this very moment? This moment is the only thing that is real and in this moment, Yeshua meets you and reminds you to cast all your burdens upon him for he cares for you. Keep giving your anxiety to God, because it will keep wanting to choke you. Keep trusting God no matter what you feel. I will pray that God will grant you Sisu. Sisu is a Finnish word that means to continue to press on against all odds. To have a determination and grit in the midst of overwhelming adversity. I prayed for God to give me Sisu as I grieved deeply. God is good.
    One day we will both see the beautiful weaving that God has done in our lives and we will understand how necessary the dark threads were for the weave to be completed. God is doing something good in our lives despite how incomprehensibly painful it is.
    May God's grace be greatly upon you, brother. My heart aches with yours.
     
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  7. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Yes. It's easy to feel a twinge of anger when someone who has not been ordained the valley...yet...speaks about pain. I don't wish the pain on anyone. However, I know that I have gone through the pain so that I might comfort others with the comfort which God has comforted me.
    Hebrews 12 definitely reminds us that God loves us when he disciplines us through the perseverance of suffering.
     
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  8. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Great, thanks again. That's interesting, that point Tozer said about focusing on the now, it's smart because I look at the future and imagine many frightening possibilities, so definitely good advice, may not live the night so yes good thinking. And yes I praise God all the time, I never get angry at God, strangely I wake up frustrated sometimes, but I straighten out my head, I think I might be, but won't admit it, hence it's there when I wake.

    I do have a hope, I TRULY BELIEVE that God can, and will change this at once. I don't know if He will, but I'm convinced, from the heart that this week I can get a good sale, and everything changes. You sure learn quick the hypocrites, "If you see your brother in need, and are able to help and don't what good is it", there are many verses like that, "Be well, I'll pray for you", what good is that when one can help? All around me, Christians know I have a massive need, a ONE TIME NEED that will blossom, that is a small amount will turn my company completely around as I can buy leads, but they just wish me well, it's really sick, they could even make money off me, but I'm not going to judge them, though it does disappoint me, I mean it's not a big deal, when I see a brother with a need, and have money, I'm giving it to them, haven't always done it perfect or anything, people are so selfish it just blows my mind, they'd let you die before parting with money.
     
  9. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Great again, and yes you have helped me wonderfully. One time I was actually thrilled at my suffering, we're supposed to, "Of will ALL participate, unless you are illegitimate, and not a son"!

    Like I saw, my biggest encouragement is that I can see the hand of God on me, not claiming some mystical spiritual anything, I can just tell, I have a business, but I thought "I need cash flow, go work as a waiter, make $200 a day in tips", went to this Restaurant on the end of the Huntington Beach Pier, they are hiring, I have great appearance, great experience, plus they are hiring, I fill out the application, and "He can't see you now, you're number is on the application right"? Interview is my best part, but I just KNEW something would come up, I waited from 15 through high school, a few times after, so tons of experience, impossible to not get the job, that's what I mean about "why try", whatever I do shall fail.

    One in awhile, I get crazy thoughts, like "Maybe you did some sin, and now God hates you", see writing it out seems crazy, but I mostly fight that off, I ask God a thousand times "What do you want me to do, what am I doing wrong", I have changed MUCH last two years, I can see that, OK I'm rambling, thanks, REALLY helps to talk to a brother
     
  10. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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  11. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Remember, God is Sovereign so even the turning of the back by others is within the ordained guidance of God. He often brings us to the point that we cannot solve the problem by our own plans. We must ask for wisdom from God and then resist the urge to problem solve what God has already solved in His own plan. It's so very hard to lay down our burdens at Yeshua's feet and walk away without picking it back up. May God help you.

    I remember reading Corrie Ten Boom's book "The Hiding Place." In it she commented, "I have learned to hold things lightly." She was referring to God tearing her world apart and casting her into a Nazi concentration camp. The art of holding to all our plans, lighltly, is something God had to beat out of me. God is making me content with what He gives me rather than what I seek to keep and hold on to. It's peaceful to let go of my hopes and dreams and listen to what God wants from me in the moment. So many people I walked by in pursuit of my dreams, when in the moment God would use me to minister grace to another weary soul.

    God, help me to walk in step with your Spirit and not miss the brother or sister who needs your grace in the now.

    Brother, God has a present ministry for you as you walk with Him in the moment. You'll be amazed at all the opportunity to be a light in a dark world. Just walk in step with the Spirit.

    Peace be with you, brother.
     
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  12. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Almost forgot, yeah they repossessed my car, the one I had $25k into, so serious it's time to give up, what 3 hour bus ride to work? 6 hours in a bus. If I weren't so afraid of God I'd kill myself this second, I terrified to wake up and see what the day has for me. Of course the worse is "Why God, you have unlimited riches, why not help me, I'm faithful to you, yes I deserve worse, but I'm at my end, everything is gone, even my only hope"
     
  13. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Thank you, not sure that's always the norm but it's a great thought!
     
  14. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Brother, I can completely relate. 4 years of seeking for a job and having only a couple interviews. The thoughts from the dungeon of despair is so real, yet the key is in trusting Yeshua despite all odds. I can say that when God brought the job, I had continually been faithful in filling out resumes, but I had quit expecting anything. Then, with no expectation...He gave me the job and brought favor on the interviews. How painful it was to go through 4 years of no interest from anyone and still grieve all the deaths in my life. I also fought with the evil thoughts of "What evil must I have done." The answer was like Jobs. I cannot see anything. The truth is that God chose my path to the cross because it was His will. Nothing more than that. I just had to trust the Lord with all my heart. Keep the faith.
     
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  15. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Yeah that is some time, 4 years. After awhile you were thinking "What's the point, NO FAVOR HERE", yeah that's tough, it's also similar to me, you said an important thing, "That anxiety on top of grief", telling you God knows how to get us, we can handle grief is all else is fine, but take away finances, so the heart only feels sorry/fear is the worst, I don't know how we do it. As I'm writing you earlier, I find out my ride to my business is gone, so was going to be the two of us trying to get investors, now well I don't know, I guess bus, so two hours on a bus each way, I mean it never ends, I'm getting angry, for it never stops, I'd prefer death, why fight this daily? That's what every day is, A FIGHT, yet God opposes me at EVERY STEP. So there's nothing I can do, just hope that God helps me, I need such a small doesn't matter I'm just whining now, let's see what new horrible thing happens between now and tomorrow. Thanks, God bless
     
  16. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Brother, it feels horrible because Satan is whispering thoughts of condemnation. Rebuke them in the name of Jesus. God never condemns the child he has adopted. His plans for you are good. Trust that and let whatever happens happen.
    I tell people that if God were to bring the worst of all things upon me, but He chose to save me and atone for my sins....then I am the most blessed of all men. My eternity is with my Father in His mansion, surrounded by all my brothers and sisters. That God would do such a wonderful thing for a wretch like me who deserves condemnation is beyond imagination. I am a child of the King! What temporary trial can ever be so great that I am unable to endure, when God promises me life eternal in His Kingdom. What have I to fear if Satan should take everything from me here in this temporary place where I am living as a foreigner? I have my King who will never leave me not forsake me.
    Be of good courage. There is nothing to dread. God has saved you. You are greatly blessed above billions for whom this life is all they have and then comes damnation.
    Why so downcast oh my soul? Hope in God. Let your dreams go and look unto Jesus the author and finisher of your faith. He will pick you up and keep you from drowning.
     
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  17. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Everything you wrote was wonderful, I agree, as a Child of God Almighty, with our future, we should never get upset about ANYTHING. It's just that if you drop a big rock on your foot we say "Ouch", and it does hurt, but hearing what you just wrote is like taking a nice pain pill, bad analogy but you know what I mean.

    So I think someone's praying for me, today when I think it can't get worse, find out can't get to work, then a CALL, my younger brother, "I'll help you, let's put together a plan, I can get $5,000", see I need a little bit of money, with it, well I have a beautiful car but no gas, so the $5,000 is the gas, so I'm pumped, last second, for I'm thinking "OK I'm going to be homeless, to afraid to kill myself" just looked up "WHY COME ON LORD YOU SAY YOU'LL HELP, HELP, PLEASE", then I get the call. Understand where I am, no money, as in can't well can buy cheap food, can't get cab, so he comes through with this, hasn't dawned on me yet. Then gives me his credit card so I can take Uber, Praise God!
     
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  18. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Yes praise God I have transportation!! I was at the end there. I'm listening to Piper "GOD PROMISES TO PROTECT YOU AND TAKE CARE OF YOU"
     
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  19. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    It's okay to get upset and cry out to God. It's what children do. It's what David and the psalmists do. Paul tells us that the Spirit of God prays for us when our groans are so deep that we can't form words. Yes, that's how deeply our Father cares.
    Psalms 42:1-11
    [1]As the deer longs for streams of water, so I long for you, O God.
    [2]I thirst for God, the living God. When can I go and stand before him?
    [3]Day and night I have only tears for food, while my enemies continually taunt me, saying, “Where is this God of yours?”
    [4]My heart is breaking as I remember how it used to be: I walked among the crowds of worshipers, leading a great procession to the house of God, singing for joy and giving thanks amid the sound of a great celebration!
    [5]Why am I discouraged? Why is my heart so sad? I will put my hope in God! I will praise him again— my Savior and
    [6]my God! Now I am deeply discouraged, but I will remember you— even from distant Mount Hermon, the source of the Jordan, from the land of Mount Mizar.
    [7]I hear the tumult of the raging seas as your waves and surging tides sweep over me.
    [8]But each day the lord pours his unfailing love upon me, and through each night I sing his songs, praying to God who gives me life.
    [9]“O God my rock,” I cry, “Why have you forgotten me? Why must I wander around in grief, oppressed by my enemies?”
    [10]Their taunts break my bones. They scoff, “Where is this God of yours?”
    [11]Why am I discouraged? Why is my heart so sad? I will put my hope in God! I will praise him again— my Savior and my God!
     
  20. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Thanks, it's like EVERY WORD IS ME. Is quite a irony though, God can shower us in Gold and people who love us, but chooses to do it this way. Not sure if you saw, my nephew called, going to get me the $5k a need, it means I have transportation, and ability to raise money! I mean talk about an emotional roller coaster, today was my end, no money, no transportation, on my way to homelessness, then LAST SECOND God comes through, amazing.
     
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