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Featured Questions about the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, this subject is interesting don't you think so?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alofa Atu, May 19, 2019.

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  1. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Questions about the Sabbath of the LORD thy God, this subject is interesting don't you think so?

    Here is an excellent video series on this subject, that I have been watching, that Youtube recommended to me:



    The playlist is 36 videos long, but each is appropriately titled, if anyone desires to go to a specific topic, and most can stand alone, though some recommend other videos prior within them. Here are the video titles (and please note, I do not agree with every statement made in these videos and so if any desire to automatically equate me with said presenter and their words, arguments, please do not do so, nor do I agree with every source material used therein (as for instance, the so-called book of Jasher is referenced in certain instances, which I understand to be nothing but mystic writings masquerading as what the scripture actually refer to, the book of the upright or righteous), and these may be used as springboards for conversation/discussion:

    201 - A Response to Dale Ratzlaff, Facing the Critics
    202 - No Evening and Morning, No Word Sabbath
    203 - No Commandment for Adm to Keep the Sabbath Rest in Genesis
    204 - No Sabbath Commandment in the New Testament
    205 - Jesus is my Sabbath
    206 - Sunday, the First day of the Week in the Bible
    207 - Sunday, the Lord's Day and the Early Church Fathers
    208 - Early Church Fathers Say Sunday is the Lord's Day
    209 - History of the Sabbath, 1st to the 15th Century
    210 - History of the Sabbath, 16th to the 19th Century
    211 - History of the Sabbath, 20th and 21st Century
    212 - Testimony of the Churches
    213 - The True Lord's Day Part 1
    214 - The True Lord's Day Part 2
    215 - Not Under the Law but Under Grace Romans 6:14
    216 - Christ is the End of the Law Romans 10:4
    217 - Jesus Broke the Sabbath John 5:18
    218 - Jesus Fulfilled the Law Matthew 5:17
    219 - We Should Keep Every Day Holy Romans 14:5
    220 - We Only Need To Keep Two Commandments Matthew 23:37-39
    221 - Ten Commandments Written On Stone 2 Corinthians 3:1-18
    222 - A Man was Stoned to Death for Picking Up Sticks On The Sabbath
    223 - Justified by the Law You are Fallen from Grace Galatians 5:4
    224 - Fulfill the Law of Christ Galatians 6:2
    225 - Time Has Been Lost We Don't Know When The Sabbath Day Is Part 1
    226 - Time Has Been Lost Days, Weeks, Months, And Years Part 2
    227 - Words of First Usage Part 3
    228 - Words of First Usage Part 4
    229 - Where Did The Word Sabbath Come From
    230 - Words Of First Usage Where Did The Word Sabbath Come From
    231 - Lunar Sabbaths
    232 - Calendar Changes And The Sabbath
    233 - The International Date Line
    234 - One Day In Seven Part 1
    235 - One Day In Seven Theory Part 2
    236 - New Sabbath in Greek - Matthew 28:1


    If any video is referred to, please be specific, and if possible, cite the time index of that video, or videos, with quotation where possible, so that I may check the accuracy to respond.

    The videos do not have to be watched, but if not considered, please state this.

    I found this series to be most enlightening, and I am still going through some of it in detail.

    So to begin this thread, my leading questions:

    God the Father having created the world by Jesus Christ, in 6 days and so rested the 7th day, blessing and sanctifying it, was that 7th day in Genesis 2:1-3 made for Adam, and all mankind in him?

    Is Jesus the second 'man', the last 'Adam' according to the scripture?
     
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  2. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Here is a listing of 'reasons' given for not Honouring the 4th Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) of God:

    Calendar has been Changed

    Christ is the End of the Law ...

    Early Church Fathers Citations

    Every Day is Holy

    History of the Church

    International Dateline (Dayline)

    Jesus Broke the Sabbath

    Jesus Fulfilled the Law

    Jesus Kept the Sabbath for me, so I do not now have to

    Jesus Nailed the Sabbath to the Cross

    Jesus is my Sabbath

    Jesus Rose from the Dead on the First Day of the Week, Ending the Sabbath

    Jesus Rose from the Dead on the First Day of the Week, Making it the New Sabbath

    Livelihood - gotta keep my job to put food on the table

    Lunar sabbaths

    Nine Commandments Found in the New Testament, but not Sabbath

    No Commandment in Genesis to keep the Sabbath

    No Commandment in the New Testament to keep the Sabbath

    No Commandment to Keep the Sabbath until Exodus 20

    No Evening and Morning on the 7th Day in Genesis

    No Man Kept Sabbath until Moses

    No Word Sabbath in Genesis

    Not to Judge about Sabbath Keeping

    Not Under the Law but Under Grace

    Not Under the Old Covenant (which they say is the Ten Commandments)

    One Day in Seven Is Holy

    Only Two Commandments to Keep Now

    Sabbath was Changed to the LORD's Day (which they say is the first day)

    Sabbath was only for the Hebrews

    Sabbath was only for the Israelites

    Sabbath was only for the Jews

    Sabbath was only temporary

    Seventh Day Sabbath cannot be Kept on the International Space Station

    Seventh Day Sabbath cannot be Kept on the Poles (North & South)

    Seventh Day Sabbath cannot be Kept on a Submarine

    Seventh Day Sabbath was a Shadow of Things to Come

    Stone the Sabbath Breaker

    Sunday is the LORD's Day

    Sunday is the New Order of Sabbaths (Mat. 28:1)

    Sunday is the Sabbath

    Time has been Lost

    Tradition of the Churches

    Under the New Covenant (which they say does not include the Ten Commandments)

    We are in the New Creation, the 8th Day (Ogdoad)


    What is your personal 'reason' as listed above (or if not listed, please list it so it may be added), and does anyone see any contradictions concerning the above 'reasons'?
     
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  3. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Some people called themselves "reformed" baptists... and yet what are they "reformed" too? Bible or Romanism?

    The reformation itself taught the same thing, even by Philip Melanchthon on Dan. 7:25 (spelling original):

    "... But what meaneth the aungell to saye: He shall s•arle or destroye ye hyghe sayn∣tis? verely els but that with his false doctryne capciouse othes articles / & in∣terrogacions he shall fraudelently de∣ceyue and trappe the simple innocents and shed their blode tyrannously. Also he shall arrogantly take vpon him & thin∣ke to change the state of tymes and la∣wes. He weneth to change ye tyme which with swerde and fyer thinketh to shorten the lyfe of man and to preuent and disa∣point gods infallible eternall and immu∣table prouidēce wherby he hath prefiyed euery manis tyme & houre of deth which as noman can differre or prolong it / so cā∣ne noman shorten nor preuent it / except men will make God an ignorant persone and so consequently no god at all. He chā∣geth the tymes and lawes that any of the (118-119) sixe worke dayes commanded of god will make them vnholy and idle dayes when he lyste / or of their owne holy dayes abo∣lisshed / make* worke dayes agen / & when they changed ye Saterday into Sondaye / of eting dayes fasting dayes / of mery and glad dayes to marye in / they can make so∣rowfull dayes forbiddinge maryages. They haue changed gods lawes and tur∣ned them into their owne tradiciōs to be kept aboue Gods preceptis. And as for their owne lawes they will change & bre∣ke them when they lyste. And this powr shal anticrist haue whether it be for long or shorte tyme. For so miche sowneth the Hebrew phrase / which is for a tyme / a lyt∣le whyle / & half a tyme / signifyinge that Anticryst shall make lawes to stande as long and as shorte tyme as he listeth and the tymes will he order / sett and change at his owne plesur. But is it not onely ye office of god to chang tymes and lawes? Here is therfore the prophecye fulfylled of him. Euen to exalt himselfe aboue all thing that god is called. This text. But the hyghe saynts he shall tangle trappe & destroye and arrogantly thinke to chan∣ge the tymes and lawes &c. is of diuerse lerned men diuersely translated. ..." - The exposicion of Daniel the prophete gathered oute of Philip Melanchton, Iohan Ecolampadius, Chonrade Pellicane [and] out of Iohan Draconite. [et] c. By George Ioye. A prophecye diligently to be noted of al emprowrs [and] kinges in these laste dayes

    Sounds like good ol' Philip Melanchthon knew what he was talking about, for he knew history better than the revisionists of today:

    Latin:

    "... Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc. Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit. Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in [false] diem Dominicam [Sunday] transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ..." - Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.) Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....eistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf

    Translated English:

    "... Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he [Sylvester] ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the [false] Lord's day [Sunday], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ..." - Exactly Which Pope Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?

    Others, Roman Catholic encyclopedia:

    “...yet we find St. Cæsarius of Arles in the sixth century teaching that the holy Doctors of the Church had decreed that the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred to the Sunday, and that Christians must keep the Sunday holy in the same way as the Jews had been commanded to keep holy the Sabbath Day. … From the eight century the law began to be formulated as it exists at the present day, and the local councils forbade servile work, public buying and selling, pleading in the law courts, and the public and solemn taking of oaths. There is a large body of civil legislation on the Sunday rest side by side with the ecclesiastical. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; Sunday] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sunday

    Moreover:

    "Now in the matter of Sabbath observance the Protestant rule of Faith is utterly unable to explain the substitution of the Christian Sunday for the Jewish Saturday. It has been changed. The Bible still teaches that the Sabbath or Saturday should be kept holy. There is no authority in the New Testament for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday. Surely it is an important matter. It stands there in the Bible as one of the Ten Commandments of God. There is no authority in the Bible for abrogating this Commandment, or for transferring its observance to another day of the week. For Catholics it is not the slightest difficulty. "All power is given Me in heaven and on earth; as the Father sent Me so I also send you," said our Divine Lord in giving His tremendous commission to His Apostles. "He that heareth you heareth Me." We have in the authoritative voice of the Church the voice of Christ Himself. The [Roman Catholic] Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God." - Source: The Catholic Record, London, Ontario Canada, September 1, 1923.- see source from Liberty Magazine Volumes 16-20, all this, the Roman and Seventh Day Adventist, in a response to speech given by Baptist minister [Emmanuel Baptist Church, Toronto Canada] Rev. J. Marion Smith on the Sabbath/Sunday question [google books pagination 14-15] - Liberty

    You can read the image here - Link 1 and see the image here - Link 2

    The real "Lord's day" is found in Isaiah:

    Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

    Next questions in relation to the previous two:

    Was the sabbath made for Jesus?
     
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  4. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Searching the Bible, to obtain our answers, we read:

    [1] Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

    Mar 2:27 και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον

    "... the sabbath was made for 'the' man ..."

    και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον

    "ton" (the; definite article) "anthrwpon" (man; singular), which is a direct reference to Genesis 1:27 so-called LXX:

    καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον, κατ᾿ εἰκόνα θεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν, ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς.

    That "the man" was called "Adam", and all humanity is in him, and thus the whole duty of "adam" (man) is to keep God's commandments, Ecc. 12:13-14 HOT, HOT translit., and so-called LXX:

    Ecc 12:13 HOT סוף דבר הכל נשׁמע את־האלהים ירא ואת־מצותיו שׁמור כי־זה כל־האדם׃

    Ecc 12:14 HOT כי את־כל־מעשׂה האלהים יבא במשׁפט על כל־נעלם אם־טוב ואם־רע׃

    Ecc. 12:13 HOT Translit. šôf Dävär haKol nish'mä et-häélohiym y'rä w'et-mitz'wotäyw sh'môr Kiy-zeh Käl-ädäm

    Ecc. 12:14 HOT Translit. Kiy et-Käl-maáseh häélohiym yävi v'mish'Pä† al Käl-ne'läm im-†ôv w'im-rä

    Ecc 12:13 so-called LXX Τέλος λόγου τὸ πᾶν ἀκούεται Τὸν θεὸν φοβοῦ καὶ τὰς ἐντολὰς αὐτοῦ φύλασσε, ὅτι τοῦτο πᾶς ἄνθρωπος.

    Ecc 12:14 so-called LXX ὅτι σὺν πᾶν τὸ ποίημα ὁ θεὸς ἄξει ἐν κρίσει ἐν παντὶ παρεωραμένῳ, ἐὰν ἀγαθὸν καὶ ἐὰν πονηρόν.

    [2] 1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
    1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
    1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Thus my original two questions, in connection with 1 Cor. 15:45-47. Adam the first and Adam (Jesus) the second/last. Since the Sabbath was made for the man (Adam) and all humanity in him, it was also made for the second man, the LORD from Heaven, Jesus (the second Adam) and all humanity in Him for the Sabbath was most especially made for Him, Col. 1:16

    [3] Col_1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    So, we know from scripture that the sabbath was made for the man (Adam, and all in him), and also made for Jesus, also the (second/last) man (Adam), and all in Him. Are you in Christ Jesus? (a personal question only you can answer, don't answer it here).

    My fourth question:

    How long will Jesus remain as He is, when resurrected, with Glorified flesh of mankind?
     
  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    1Ki_18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
     
  6. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    My fifth question:

    What sabbaths is Isaiah specifically speaking about in these verses:


    Isa. 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

    Isa. 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    My sixth question:

    What "flesh" is coming to worship before God? Is it like unto Jesus' glorified body?
     
  7. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    The SDA focuses so much on Sabbath keeping but at the same time runs abortion mills for the sake of the almighty dollar. What about 'Thou shalt not kill'? It is fine for doctors to murder children in Adventists hospitals, but don't even think of ordering a ham sandwich in an Adventist abortion mill!
     
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  8. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    My sixth question:

    What "commandment" does Revelation 14:7 specifically refer to when it says, "worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters", as noted among those "commandments" referred to in Revelation 14:12?
     
  9. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    You are off OP (Sabbath) and reported for it. Please refrain from so doing that. You can now participate in a thread specifically on that subject of 'abortion' here. That is not the topic here, but I know Romanism likes to obfuscate

    Roman Catholicism and the total abuse & murder of children (incl. abortion).

    If for some reason that link ever becomes broken, feel free to read a PDF here
     
  10. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Walter, do you think this Alofa Atu poster is the SDA person that got kicked off a few months back here under a new name?
     
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  11. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    Sure does post in a similar fashion. Post after post of cut & paste that nobody reads. I don't expect he/she will be here long.
     
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  12. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I think you guys thinking of BobRyan. He was nice fellah. I don't think he is banned nor should be. I hope he comes back.

    At first I thought this what Christiang who did get kicked. Thats why I went straight to asking is Jesus God. because he's came off like a Jewish cult leader.

    Or like those folks who don't believe the writings of Paul. Like I said earlier the crazy prophet folks come dime a dozen.

    Its my relief this guy is just typical Sabbath obsessed SDA.

    He's following his good conscience and should be congratulated. We just going to have to get used to the paranoia that he thinks we are in service of the devil or a sucker to satan's big controversy plot.


    I rather have a paranoid SDA around, I still count them as allies, even though they think we are going to choke them in their sleep or whatever.

    They still have a very good sense of Love and Kindness, far as the character of God which I believe is good enough to pull them through.

    I'm going to get popcorn when he runs into the Calvinists.
     
  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    We shouldn't be so quick to hope folks get kicked.

    He's sounds like good person.

    Its just one of those situations where we are Darth Vader.

    They call the devil ACCUSER for a good reason.


    What can i do? I never killed anyone. I love God and I love Jesus. Just like some muslim might be taught Israel should not exist. He is taught catholics shouldn't exists. Maybe the people are good the religion is evil sort of speech.
     
  14. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    We are to attend worship on the first day of the week as per the Apostles and we Christians have been doing so since Day 1.
     
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  15. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    No, you are correct, Bob posts charitably and respectfully. And, he has been posting that way for years. We are referring to an SDA chucklehead that was banned a while back because he didn't learn how to play well with others in elementary school.
     
    #15 Walter, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  16. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Really? Where is that in scripture?

    The body of believers may gather on any and every day with no injunction anywhere found in scripture against such, and in truth they met "daily", "continually", etc (Mat 26:55; Mar 14:49; Luk 22:53, 24:33,36; Acts 19:9) and likewise among the followers of Jesus Christ (Luk 24:51,53; Acts 1:3,9, 2:46-47, 5:42, 6:1, 16:5, 17:11,17; Heb 3:13, etc)

    Do you think this text shows a first day of the week meeting? It doesn't, it is Biblically the 'second day' having began at evening:

    And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. Luke 24:36

    Also, Jesus met with the Disciples the 2nd day of the week here, since he spent a great deal of time with the two Disciples on the Road to Emmaus on the first day [see Luke 24:21, "...beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done"], it came to be evening [which begins the next day, when the sun sets at even, Mark 1:32; Leviticus 23:32; Genesis 1:5,8,13,19,23,31, etc ], and then they sat down to dinner, and as Jesus vanished before them, they ran back to Jerusalem at night and then Jesus met with them again, all together [thus no longer the 'first [day] of the week', but rather the second [day] of the week]:

    But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. Luke 24:29

    And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. Luke 24:30

    And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them, Luke 24:33

    And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. Luke 24:36

    Jesus also stayed for 40 days with them after His resurrection:

    To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: Acts 1:3

    Jesus ascended, this time from the Mount of Olives, being there with them exactly 10 days before Pentecost [first [day] of the week], which means, we see again that Jesus was with them not merely upon the first [day] of the week.

    Are you going to cite Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2?

    You had better read those very carefully, for they will only injure your 'case'.

     
    #16 Alofa Atu, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  17. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    You simply are not going to convince the Christians here of your folly. You look to but one woman for the truth, a false prophet if there ever was one. By the way, last night for dinner I had two of the most succulent pork chops ever, man were they good. Washed down with two ice cold beers as well. Mmmmmm, so refreshing!
     
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  18. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    You have me mistaken for the Holy Spirit. Not my job. My job is to "preach the word". It is the position of the Holy Spirit to convict, and your job to listen to Him, otherwise ... not good.

    Not at all. I look to Christ Jesus and His inspired and preserved word, thus I keep citing to you Isaiah 8:20, but you seem not to notice the two parts of that which is therein.

    Y'awhn. More distraction. Simply accusation with no evidence (and every time that it is tried, they always make fools of themselves, do try, but please in another thread, thank you), and way off topic, unless you would like to discuss what she said on the subject of the OP.

    Gal_6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

    If you study that subject (again not OP), you will find that God uses the word "abomination", the strongest word in relation to what you claim to have done.

    Isa_66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

    I pray you read that carefully, for it is a text that deals with the final execution of judgment. You ought to look up the video on youtube of a woman who had pains in her head, and had to go in for drastic surgery and they found a larvae worm in her brain from pork:





    Seriously, for your own health and longevity, please don't defy God.

    As for alcohol:

    Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

    No wonder you cannot think straight or make a logical argument with coherency. You just admitted to being under the influence of 'spirits', none of which are the Holy (not abomination) Spirit.
     
    #18 Alofa Atu, May 23, 2019
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Luke 5

    39“And no one, after drinking old wine wishes for new; for he says, ‘The old is good enough.’”

    Do you prefer FRESH grape juice or OLD grape juice?

    As most people who do drink know OLD WINE is better. But you want FRESHEST Juice possible. You want fresh orange juice not juice that sits there a couple of days.



    John 2

    10and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”

    The guy in this verse is COMPLAINING. Why? Cause drinkers drink the GOOD STUFF first because its better appreciated after you are drunk it doesn't matter what you drink.



    No to Bacon? No to Pepperoni Pizza?

    Thats hell already.


    Colossians 2

    16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

    Wow its like scripture describes a buddy perfectly

    1. Judge on food you eat and drink.
    2. whines about sabbath day
    3. Worships the angel Michael
     
  20. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Again, not OP. 'Wine' simply means that which came from the 'vine'. The scripture is clear about the pure "blood of the grape" and the difference between it and the 'vine of Sodom', which is not the "fruit of the vine" at the last supper, being 'grape juice'. No leaven was to be present, no fermentation., and alcohol is fermentation.

    Hab_2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

    You are warned. Roman Catholicism has what is in the golden cup of Revelation 17 that makes the kings of the earth drunken.

    The Holy Spirit wants to sanctify you, but in alcohol, cannot:

    Eph_5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

    Notice, in the "wine" that makes one "drunk" is "excess". Alcohol's very nature is corruption, as Proverbs told you.

    The 'new' was the juice of the grape, the first-fruits, as it represents Christ Jesus Himself and His doctrine - pure, not wickedly alcoholic.

    Please begin a new thread on it if you desire.

    Ad libbing are we? It is a trade 'mark' of Romanism, however, the good was the freshest available juice of the grape harvest, which is when weddings took place most often. When the best ran out then the watered juice was brought out last, that which came from storage, and had to be mixed with water to re-constitute it from preservation.

    Jesus, instead, by creation, makes the new wine (juice) on the spot, He being the 7th Jar. It is a picture of Christ's own wedding and gift to His bride and family. No corruption, no fermentation, but pure juice of His selfless sacrifice.

    You think 'good stuff' means aged alcohol. You read that into the text. It isn't there. Study more closely and you will see that the 'good stuff' is the fresh invigorating juice of the grape harvest.

    Again, please make a new thread.

    Then you shall never enter Heaven by your own words, for no death will be there:

    Rev_21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    Isa_11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

    Isa_65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

    You are only causing your body and brain to age faster, and to be filled with disease (God warned you). Eating that stuff will cause you to have symptoms of arthritis, when it is actually larvae infesting your joints.

    Start another thread please on that topic.
     
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