"Oh well done! I am a fool I an beaten by a better man."
:cool:
Quick-and-Dirty Calvinism
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Monergist, Jun 2, 2005.
Page 12 of 15
-
-
JohnP you are indeed the PERFECT candidate for Calvinism!!
What a hoot!!
"God SO LOVED the WORLD" JohnP- "REALLY"!!
And GOD LOVED the Son -- YES EVEN when He was on earth. God said "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON... HEAR HIM"
Calvinsts are soooo tied up with "God hates hates hates" that they can not ALLOW HIM to "So love the WORLD" and now YOU claim He can not be allowed to LOVE CHrist!!!
NO WONDER you anticpate the joy of seeing your own children suffering the torments of the flames since you WILL NOT love them any longer should they be there!!
What a riot!!
I salute you sir.
In Christ,
Bob -
LOL Bob...now He believes God doesn't even love Himself.
I thought I was the perfect candidate for Arminianism too. lol -
Christ became a curse for us - God was IN CHRIST reconciling the WORLD to HIMSELF! He made HIM who KNEW no sin to BE sin in OUR behalf -- 2Cor 5 but NEVER does scripture say "God hated his Son".
Yet this is an extreme to which John will gladly leap!!
How convenient for Arminians.
In Christ,
Bob -
In Christ,
Bob -
Agreed Bob.
-
Hello KJ.
I asked you three questions and you managed to offer nothing in exchange but sought my opinion. Look the word up don't listen to me.
Hello Bob.
john. -
You are out of line with Calvinism John because no Calvinist that I know of thinks they were saved before the foundation of the world, no Calvinist thinks that God hates His own Son(thereby hating Himself), etc. etc. etc.
"His intentions to me are only love now"...I thought they always were? -
Hello KJ.
What does curse mean?
What does curse mean?
What does curse mean?
Three questions for you kj, answer one and I'll stop asking you.
john. -
"And where have you heard that this is what I believe but I was chosen in Him before the creation of the world?"
Answer: In this forum...you said it yourself...to me.
Do you want the noun definition or the verb for "curse" John? I think I'll give you the verb.
Curse: -to invoke evil, misfortune, damnation (are you saying God would invoke evil?...course yer not)
-to swear at (you're not saying God swears)
-to bring evil upon (are you saying God does that?)
I don't know...which meaning are you willing to accept?
Scripture for ya: If God hates sinners, what do you say to 1 Peter 2:22? If that verse is true (and it is), why would God hate Jesus (His Son, logically..Himself)? -
Hello KJ.
Because He would rather hate His Son than me would seem an obvious answer. How can I ever doubt His love for me?
john. -
"Since you say I said that a man is saved before he is born then I must apologise and retract my error."
Well John...that is what I got from what you said. If I am wrong, then I am sorry.
Nope...no love in curse. But it seems to me that sin was cursed on the tree (as Jesus became sin for us) but Jesus Himself was always loved by the Father. Otherwise God would be a schizophrenic, no? Loves Him, loves Him not, loves Him again three days later. My head is spinning.
"How can I ever doubt His love for me?" Because you can't know that He does if Calvinism is true. You could be like those whom He says "I never knew you" to. After all...they thought God loved them too didn't they? -
Hello KJ.
What does 'became a curse for us' mean? That sins were cursed or He was?
As for 'Otherwise God would be a schizophrenic' I cannot answer your question.
It's an imperative for the lover to let the beloved know is it not? Since He says He loves me why would you think He never told me? Why should you think that He does not want to spend every minute of the day with me. :cool: Hope is not a wish but a certainty. Grace upon grace has been extended to me and this grace was not without effect but only as God chose.
What can I do when He leads me out onto a limb only uphold me out here?
john. -
Thanks for your answer John. I have nothing to argue with.
All I know is if Calvinism is true I can't know for sure that God loves me. If Arminianism is true, I can know for sure that God loves me. -
-
LOL Diane No...I'm just a Baptist...a Christian actually.
-
Hello dianetavegia.
Faith makes a cannibal saved.
As an Arminian you can know God loves you only so long as you love Him. But we return to the God of Sobs do we?
Works, giving up eating missionaries, will damn you.
john. -
Hello Bob.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...but NEVER does scripture say "God hated his Son".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then you need an "excuse" to hang your made-up idea on -- and you pick this substitutionary atonement fact spinning it around as "if" it is saying God hates Christ!!
Again - just like your "Election determined by genetics" fallacy - NO CALVINIST will go for this kind of rubbish let alone another Arminian!!
John I appreciate the fact that you are so willing to crawl out on those limbs and then saw them off yourself. But come on! There must be a limit!
In 2Cor 5 God says "HE made Him Who knew no sin to BE SIN in our behalf so that WE might become the righteousness of God in Christ"
This is another one of those substitutionary atonement style text that is NOT saying "God hated Christ"!!
So you "need" to INSERT that idea INTO these texts -- and indeed "you make it up" with little or no reservation as you crawl out on limb after limb in your all-for-Calvinism defense.
I don't mind admitting that these extremes are where Calvinism might lead someone who took it seriously - except none of your fellow Calvinists seem to want to crawl out there with you -- so I am stuck just saying "it is you alone".
"You" have claimed as much in the past. I will give you this credit. If you are so willing to hate your own child upon finding out that they are not among the arbitrarily select "FEW" of Matt 7 in heaven - (because you think God will hate them too) -- and if you are so willing to turn a blind eye to scripture showing God to WEEP over the lost -- then it is no wonder you are now looking to INSERT the idea in scripture that God hated Christ.
I see how that Calvinist progression would lead you to such a defensive - yet rediculous position.
In Christ,
Bob -
Hello Bob.
What's numbers got to do with it? :cool: God is the majority.
That Eli! :cool:
What's 'curse mean then? :cool:
john. -
John...like he's asked...how come no Calvinist OR Arminian is jumping out here to back you up on the "curse" thing? If I were you...that would get me thinking at least.
Page 12 of 15