Quick-and-Dirty Calvinism

Hello Bob.
With every rant and railing diatribe on this thread the Calvinists CONFIRM that THE POINT made in the CFS is Correct!!

I'm having fun. :cool:

"He is the LORD; let him do what is good in his eyes."
"He is the LORD; let him do what is good in his eyes."
"He is the LORD; let him do what is good in his eyes."

With every rant and railing... Is not the impression I get from reading:

1SA 3:17 "What was it he said to you?" Eli asked. "Do not hide it from me. May God deal with you, be it ever so severely, if you hide from me anything he told you." 18 So Samuel told him everything, hiding nothing from him. Then Eli said, "He is the LORD; let him do what is good in his eyes."

You must be hyper-sensitive or something! :cool:

Here Eli is used as an example of the very thing you speak of and you ignore him. His children were sent to Hell as a lesson to you, have they been sent there for nothing? We all could be for sin. They will ask you why you didn't listen.

Just as it is written: Just as it is written: Just as it is written:
"Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Romans 9:13. HaHa! And you expect what from that?

Your reply? God is talking about Edom and He did not hate them He hated what they did and that to you is, "Just as it is written: Just as it is written: Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

God hated what Edom did is not Just as it is written is it? Just as it is written is "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." isn't it? But I am not an educated man. :cool: I thought that when it said, Just as it is written: it meant just as it is written! :cool: Silly me! It meant something completely different and was not 'just as it was written'. You speak with a very busy forked tongue.

It is a thing of man, something that a man is able to understand, Just as it is written: just as it is written below.

MAL 1:2 "I have loved you," says the LORD.
"But you ask, `How have you loved us?'
"Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the LORD says. "Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals."

As father as sons. Esau was the source of Edom and the source of it's destruction. As the tree so it's fruit.

john.

 

What does the word "hate" mean? I heard before that hate is not the absence of love, but love gone angry. In other words, there can be no hate unless there were first love. The devil proves this fact...he loved God at one time did he not?

Also, in true Calvinist fashion I could say "hate" doesn't really mean "hate". You know...kinda like all those "all doesn't mean all" and "love doesn't mean love" declarations of nonsense that Calvinists so profusely spew at us right thinking folk.

Last but not least, maybe God says He "hates" someone in the manner that many of us say it. It is more a figure of speech...or used to distinguish the love God has for believers vs. the love that He Himself claims to have for the lost. That is all I have to say.

 

"Simple question - Do Christian Parents in Heaven with Jesus witness the torment of their lost Children in Hell and mourn them?

So far Bob - You're the only one."

Hardsheller...you know not of what you speak. I agree with Bob. He is correct. That is WHY God has to wipe tears from our eyes. Why else would he have to do it? Cuz the world ends before the Cubs win a World Series???

 

That's BEFORE our glorification KJ.

In heaven there won't be any sorrow.
Does this negate us not seeing people we know in torment, not EXACTLY, BUT we will not have sorrow, pain, or remorse. This are all results of SIN by sinners. Why does God WEEP now? Not because of us but because what we are doing. In heaven it will not be like that, for Him OR for us.

God HATES the evil doer. Ps 55
His soul HATES the wicked Ps 11

Sorry no "I love less" liberal yahoo here...
God HATES the wicked. You must understand and be more like God and not form God around the way you "feel" He would act.
Psalm 50:21 These things you have done, and I have been silent; you thought that I was one like yourself . But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you.

 

Why did you call me a "I love less" liberal yahoo? With language like that I can truly see that Calvinists "love less".

God HATES the wicked eh? Well...why did PastorLarry tell me on another Calvinism thread that God did love all mankind? What...you Calvinists can't even get things straight between you? Or is this "love" for ALL mankind INSINCERE? I just wanna know.

I don't try to form God to how I feel He should act. I feel He should act according to His nature and not lie. Either He loves all mankind or He doesn't. But the Bible says that He does. :(

 

What is really interesting is that EDWARDS "agrees" that Parents will see the torment of the LOST -- ALL the lost!

Hardsheller ALREADY confessed that any parent seeing that would be in SHOCK!

Then Hardsheller ALSO said HE WOULD take Edward's position to be correct!!

Hardsheller has "confessed himself into a corner" -- an ARMINIAN Corner!!

His only out now - is illogical innexplicable tirades against the Arminian point he has ALREADY confessed!!

Whenver an argument has run aground like Hardshellers - silly attacks against those who "see it" and hold him accountable for it -- are to be expected.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob, good point. I would just let this all go. All Calvinists know how to do is twist Scripture, and call CHRISTIANS names such as heretics. It is a waste of time. I don't think I have anything more to say to them. We shall know them by their fruit brother...

 

Me too!! :D

Aint it great!!

So far we have CONFIRMATION of THE POINT made in the CFS from Calvinists - and they seem to be hard pressed to do anything OTHER than CONFIRM it!!

I am thoroughly delighted!!

Sensitive to "Joy" and "Rejoicing" I suppose eh?

Calvinists can be counted on one thing when their argument gets weak -- an almost completely lack of attention to scripture!

(Which is what makes this so much fun for Arminians BTW)

Esau GOT ALL of the inheritance from Abraham given Isaac AND 100% of all that Isaac had!!

Jacob got NOTHING!! Not even a servant's share. Zip! Zero! Nadda!!

That means that "LIKE FATHER like SON" would argue for EDOM GETTING ALL the spoils and Israel getting NOTHING!!

The fact is that God's curses and blessings work exactly as MOSES said they would at the end of Deuteronomy. With rebellion reaping curses and obedience blessings.

(Hence - the blessings and the curses).

Notice that in Genesis God does not give the land to Abraham because the sins of the Amorites (their probation) is STILL ongoing for another 400 years!!

God who is good to the just AND the unjust is showing mercy, kindness and patience to AMORITES by sending them the witness of Abraham and Isaac and NOT displacing them!!

The Bible is time after time debunking the myths of Calvinism!

As for the Calvinists HERE arguing for the hating-God and FOR the CFS stating that God does NOT CARE for the precious child who is among the MANY!! Edwards sees it! RC confesses it! And now even Hardsheller.

ONLY JP Argues that "Election is based on GENETICS"!!! IF ever there was anyone "out on a limb" it is JP on that one.

In Christ,

Bob

 

If you think God loves those He hates go right ahead KJ. God HATES the evildoer. HATES HATES HATES HATES....

Just can't see how God can do anything to such a great creature as the ALL loving, all compassionate man. We are sooo precious and innocent. It's too bad we have just a little itsy bitsy little part of us that is just a little tainted. We are SO close to being God aren't we? ...

 

Understood.


The "reason" I keep pursuing it is that there are a number of areas of confrontation between Calvinists and Arminians where Calvinists can assemble a much better cohesive response than they do here. But on a small number of topics they are fully exposed and have nothing to come back with except illogical ranting. This is one of those rare points where nothing but their raw exposed self-conflicted and emotional all-for-calvinism tactic remains.

When you see that - you know you have uncovered a huge gaping weakness in their "story". Their "inner arminian" is calling out so loud on this one they hardly know whether to yell at me or their OWN POSTS where they have made statements that they now must deny or have made statements that no other Calvinists would agree too!

This level of total confussion and dissarray within their camp is kind of unnusual. It only happens when their case is completely compromised.

If there is ever a time when a Calvinist is going to see a glaring blatant flaw in their story - it is in cases like these.

In Christ,

Bob

 

True Bob. Thanks. I just get tired of being called a heretic for believing that God loves people. Silly me...who do I think I am eh?

 

Another wonderfully conflicted illogical innexplicable Calvinist position!!

ALL mankind is DEPRAVED (all EVIL DOERS!!) even Calvinism MUST agree to this.

Yet INSTEAD of "God so HATED the world that HE BURNED IT" John 3:16 gives us the very ARMINIAN POV "God so LOVED the WORLD that HE GAVE.."

(Note: IT does not even say "God so loved the arbitrarily selected FEW of MATT 7 that HE GAVE..." -- IT says "THE WORLD"!!)

This "God so hated" gospel of Calvinism is EXACTLY what the CFS is designed to 'expose'.

RC can not help but confess to that view of God in his own posts and the CFS is merely EXPOSING that point in all its ugliness!

In Christ,

Bob

 

When the “unchanging God” weeps and grieves over the lost - He is not simply pretending so we will be duped into "thinking" He loves them and works for their salvation, when in fact He cares nothing at all for our children and loved ones that are “not elect”.

God’s Grieving involves tears as a parent weeps for a lost child!!

Lament over Jerusalem

God is sorrowful and GRIEVES for the lost and for the fact that He has done so much to win them - yet they TURN away.

God’s Spirit is grieved by the rebellion of His CHOSEN people His HOLY nation His ROYAL priesthood. Yes even by the LOST among them – even the worst among them.

ALL of God’s Compassion is stirred up within Him over the finally lost!

 

You are right on the money.

And the beautiful thing is that the "inner arminian" in every Calvinist is decrying the "god so hated the world" gospel of Calvinists "Within them" as well as our exposing that error externally on this thread!!

It is really neat!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hello Bob.

Yea man a right laugh! :cool:

He got God don't you know? Esau was special and Edom treated as special. Jacob was ordered to leave Edom alone. Duet somewhere.
GE 25:31 Jacob replied, "First sell me your birthright." Nothing he got but preeminent he was. Loved not hated like Esau. You do not believe the scripture.

Prosperity gospel is it? A rich man is blessed and so wins Heaven through wealth. Bank account regeneration is it? :cool:

I have never said that and that makes it a what? You made it up and that makes it fiction but you want others to believe I said it so it becomes a ...prove it? Black and white it is.

Yea man! Great stuff! Of course I remember my question now! There are others out here on the limb as well you know, at least I don't believe in a god of sobs alone but Calvin baptised children didn't he, a thing you will not admit even with your great knowledge?

john.

 

quote:
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ONLY JP Argues that "Election is based on GENETICS"!!! IF ever there was anyone "out on a limb" it is JP on that one.
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More "shell gaming" JP???

So you did not say that all the CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN of the elect ARE ALSO saved - elect?

And you did not try to bend an OT promise see if you could get that story of yours to "hold water"???

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1466/6.html#000081

(This will be fun!!)

 

Here JohnP argues for GENETICS as the BASIS for election. His CHILDREN and HIS Grandchildren all elect just BECAUSE HE is a Christian.

This is a principle never claimed by Clavinists as the "Basis for election" AND this is something that NEVER shows up in scripture.

Not with Adam, or Noah, or David, or Solomon, or Samuel, or Eli or Hezekiah or ...

Fortunately JP seems about to "confess" in the statement above - that this is also NOT Calvinism!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hello Bob.

Is Bob among the prophets also?

That I did to be sure to be sure I did indeed 'Praise the Lord'.

I did indeed indeed I did say the children's children and their children are indeed surely saved to be sure. Without doubt.

So you say it is an OT promise then :cool: man! HaHa! Fun is right!
OT promise PS 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD's love is with those who fear him, and his righteousness with their children's children--
Have another on me! :cool:

john.

 

And here Bob argues for GENETICS as the BASIS for election as an Old Testiment promise! And you did not try to bend an OT promise see if you could get that story of yours to "hold water"???

Me? Straight as a die me mate how am I doing?

Not me mate that would not be seemly.

john.

 

KJ, None of us ever claimed that God didn't love people.

I just ask you to show me in scripture where Parents in Heaven mourn their lost children in the presence of Jesus.

IT AIN'T THERE!