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Quotes from Ellen White - You Decide

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by thatbrian, Feb 8, 2018.

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  1. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Again, please read the original, and whole context, for Christ is both substitute and example, the imputer and imparter of righteousness, as it is written in scripture [KJB]:

    Context:

    "... By Christ becoming man’s substitute, the luster of an abundant vindication is shed on the faithful, obedient child of God. Through entirely innocent, Christ submitted to be punished for man’s disobedience. In His own body He offered the antitypical sacrifice, thus paying the penalty and bearing the curse, that no one who believes in Him should perish, but have everlasting life. The rainbow of promise encircles the throne.

    In stooping to take the habiliments of a man, Christ did not cease to be God. The human did not become divine, nor the divine human. Christ lived the law of God, showing <all> men and women that through His grace they can do the same. By faith, in His humanity Christ saw what we are permitted to see by faith—the atoning sacrifice connected with the Lord upon the mercy seat. The golden censer is waved, and the incense, the representation of the purity and righteousness of Christ, ascends, bearing the prayers of every soul that receives and believes on Christ to the altar which is before the throne of God. And Jesus is in the midst.

    Entire justice was done in the atonement. Christ was the object of that justice. In the place of the sinner, the spotless Son of God received the penalty, and the sinner goes free as long as he receives and holds Christ as his personal Saviour. Though guilty, he is looked upon as innocent. The character of God was shown to the world by the obedience and death of the Son of God. By His own merits Christ covered everything that the justice of God demanded. God’s character as a God of holiness, a God of goodness, compassion, and love combined, was expressed in His Son. In the cross of Christ God gave the mightiest pledge of justice and love. “For if the blood of bulls and of goats and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from works to serve the living God?”

    *****

    When the loud cry, “It is finished,” came from the lips of Christ, the priests were officiating in the temple. The lamb prefiguring Christ—for to Him all sacrificial offerings pointed—had been brought to be slain. Clothed in his significant and beautiful dress, the priest stood with lifted knife, as did Abraham when he was about to slay his son. With intense interest the people look on. But the earth trembled and quakes, for the Lord Himself draws near. With a rending noise, the veil of the temple is torn from top to bottom by an unseen hand, throwing open to the gaze of the multitude a place once filled with the presence of God. In this place the Shekinah once dwelt. Here God had once manifested His glory above the mercy seat. No one but the high priest ever lifted the veil separating this apartment from the rest of the tabernacle. He entered in once a year to make an atonement for the sin of the people. But lo, this veil is rent in twain. No longer is there any secrecy there. ..." - Ms 111, 1897 -- Ellen G. White Writings
    Want the scripture [KJB]?, that's the easy part.
     
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  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    someone has graciously started this thread title "Quotes from Ellen White " -- more specifically things that God showed Ellen White in vision.

    The book from which those quotes are taken - is "The Story of Redemption"

    The Story of Redemption - Chapter 1 - The Fall of Lucifer
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Had you included the full quote - the reader would be informed that Christ coming to Earth in the full glory of His true position as God Almighty would have destroyed sinful man to even look upon Him. Thus as Phil 2 states Christ "emptied Himself" -- disguising the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form - his humanity

    Your error is in following the pattern of your leader Hoekema - and quoting half-sentences while avoiding the actual published beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

    Is it true that you find so little to object to in the full statement of beliefs of the Adventist church - that you must resort to these half-quotes and half-truths?

    Go here

    https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf

    Pick one of the beliefs there and quote it in full (each one is only about a paragraph or two).

    Then you wont have the problem of continually being exposed as misstating the facts.

    I am giving you all these helps to make your case more bullet proof -- you need something that will hold up to serious review.
     
    #23 BobRyan, Feb 8, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  4. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Again, please read the original, and in context:

    Context:

    "... Christ left His position in the heavenly courts and came to this earth to live the life of human beings. This sacrifice He made in order to show that Satan’s charge against God is false—that it is possible for man to obey the laws of God’s kingdom. Equal with the Father, honored and adored by the angels, in our behalf Christ humbled Himself and came to this earth to live a life of lowliness and poverty—to be a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. Yet the stamp of divinity was upon His humanity. He came as a divine Teacher, to uplift human beings, to increase their physical, mental, and spiritual efficiency.

    There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is none the less true that “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

    In every possible way Satan sought to prevent Jesus from developing a perfect childhood, a faultless manhood, a holy ministry, and an unblemished sacrifice. But he was defeated. He could not lead Jesus into sin. He could not discourage Him or drive Him from the work He had come to this earth to do. From the desert to Calvary the storm of Satan’s wrath beat upon Him, but the more mercilessly it fell, the more firmly did the Son of God cling to the hand of His Father and press on in the blood-stained path. ..." - Ms 140, 1903 -- Ellen G. White Writings

    Of course the person of JEHOVAH Emmanuel, Jesus, the Son of God the Father, is not the Father, the LORD God Almighty, JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days. They are two distinct "persons". Do you need the scripture [KJB] for this also? Daniel himself, as others, make this very distinction, also. Using the various titles, names, to distinguish between the two persons of Father and Son.

    It does not make Jesus, any less JEHOVAH Emmanuel, or Almighty, for the very heading of the article is "A Divine Sin-Bearer".

    There are other places in which, when the context is speaking of the Son, it refers to Him as Almighty God, when there is no need to distinguish between Father and Son. I have an entire listing, do you need me to cite some for you?
     
  5. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Guys, it's quotes, not novellas.
     
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  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was an invitation to post quotes of Ellen White so people could decide from the actual text --

    Two posts here - not quotes of Ellen White -- #11

    Comments by non-SDAs who actually read the material
     
  7. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Again, original and context, and it seems you do not have issue with sister White, but with scripture [KJB] which declares Christ Jesus as both substitute and example:

    "... The world’s Redeemer came not only to be a sacrifice for sin, but to be an example to man in all things, <a holy human character.> He was a teacher, such an educator as the world never saw or heard before. He spake as one having authority, and yet He invites the confidence of all. “Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” [Matthew 11:28-30.]

    The only begotten Son of the infinite God has, by His words, and His practical example, left us a plain pattern which we are to copy. By His words He has educated us to obey God, and by His own practice He has showed us how we can obey God. This is the very work He wants every man to do, to obey God intelligently, by precept and example teach others what they must do in order to be obedient children of God.

    Jesus has helped the whole world to an intelligent knowledge of His divine mission and work. He came to represent the character of the Father to our world, and as we study the life, the words, and works of Jesus Christ, we are helped in every way in the education of obedience to God; and as we copy the example He has given us, we are living epistles known and read of all men. We are the living human agencies to represent in character Jesus Christ to the world.

    Not only did Christ give explicit rules showing how we may become obedient children, but He showed us in His own life and character just how to do those things which are right and acceptable with God, so there is no excuse why we should not do those things which are pleasing in His sight.

    We are ever to be thankful that Jesus has proved to us by actual facts that man can keep the commandments of God, giving contradiction to Satan’s falsehood that man cannot keep them. The Great Teacher came to our world to stand at the head of humanity, to thus elevate and sanctify humanity by His holy obedience to all of God’s requirements, showing it is possible to obey all the commandments of God. He has demonstrated that a lifelong obedience is possible. Thus He gives <chosen, representative> men to the world, as the Father gave the Son, to exemplify in their life the life of Jesus Christ.

    We need not place the obedience of Christ by itself as something for which He was particularly adapted by His particular divine nature, for He stood before God as man’s representative and tempted as man’s substitute and surety. If Christ had a special power which it is not the privilege of man to have, Satan would have made capital of this matter. The work of Christ was to take from the claims of Satan his control of man, and he could do this only in the way that He came—a man, tempted as a man, rendering the obedience of a man. ..."
    ... to be continued ...

     
  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    ... continued ...

    "...Jesus says, “Follow me,” “He that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” [John 8:12.] Consider it not a hard duty. The commandments of God are His expressed character flowing out of a heart of love, of thoughtful plans that man may be preserved from every evil. They are not an arbitrary authority over man, but the Lord would have men as His obedient children and members of His own family.

    Obedience is the outgrowth and fruit of oneness with Christ and the Father. “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” 1 John 5:2-4.

    When we have unmistakably heard His voice and obey, every murmuring thought will be repressed; and we will obey, leaving all consequences with Him who gave the commandment. If, as we see the footprints of Jesus, we step in them, in thus following Him there is love and power.

    Bear in mind that Christ’s overcoming and obedience is that of a true human being. In our conclusions, we make many mistakes because of our erroneous views of the human nature of our Lord. When we give to His human nature a power that it is not possible for man to have in his conflicts with Satan, we destroy the completeness of His humanity. His imputed grace and power He gives to all who receive Him by faith. The obedience of Christ to His Father was the same obedience that is required of man.

    Man cannot overcome Satan’s temptations without divine power to combine with His instrumentality. So with Jesus Christ, He could lay hold of divine power. He came not to our world to give the obedience of a lesser God to a greater, but as a man to obey God’s Holy Law, and in this way He is our example. The Lord Jesus came to our world, not to reveal what a God could do, but what a man could do through faith in God’s power to help in every emergency. Man is, through faith, to be a partaker in the divine nature, and to overcome every temptation wherewith he is beset. The Lord now demands that every son and daughter of Adam through faith in Jesus Christ serve Him in human nature which we now have.

    The Lord Jesus has bridged the gulf that sin has made. He has connected earth with heaven, and finite man with the infinite God. Jesus, the world’s Redeemer, could only keep the commandments of God in the same way that humanity can keep them. “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” 2 Peter 1:3, 4.

    “But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” 2 Corinthians 3:18. The glory he [Paul] mentioned is character, therefore by thinking and talking of Jesus we become charmed with His character, and by faith we become changed from character to character. “And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.” [Ephesians 4:23, 24.] “Ye are the light of the world ... Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” [Matthew 5:14, 16.] We must practice the example of Christ, bearing in mind His Sonship and His humanity. It was not God that was tempted in the wilderness, nor a god that was to endure the contradiction of sinners against himself. It was the Majesty of heaven who became a man—humbled Himself to our human nature.

    We are not to serve God as if we were not human, but we are to serve Him in the nature we have, that has been redeemed by the Son of God; through the righteousness of Christ we shall stand before God pardoned, and as though we had never sinned. We will never gain strength in considering what we might do if we were angels. We are to turn in faith to Jesus Christ, and show our love to God through obedience to His commands. Jesus “was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” [Hebrews 4:15.] Jesus says, “Follow Me.” “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” [Matthew 16:24.] Jesus leads the way. Do not wait and continue in disobedience, hoping circumstances may change, making it easier for you to obey. Go forward, for you know the will of God. “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” [Revelation 3:21.]

    The fourth commandment is given for us to observe. The third angel’s message comes to us in warnings, entreaties, and threatenings. ... [Revelation 14:9, 10, 12.] ..." - Ms 1, 1892 -- Ellen G. White Writings

    P.s. the heading for this letter is "The Divine-Human Nature of Christ".
     
  9. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    I am setting the record straight and clear by evidence. Context is required, unless you would support out of context snippets, which in reality, would mis-represent a position? Yes or no, please.
     
  10. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Do you imagine this helps you case?
     
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  11. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    From Ellen White above...

    Man cannot overcome Satan’s temptations without divine power to combine with His instrumentality. So with Jesus Christ, He could lay hold of divine power. He came not to our world to give the obedience of a lesser God to a greater, but as a man to obey God’s Holy Law, and in this way He is our example. The Lord Jesus came to our world, not to reveal what a God could do, but what a man could do through faith in God’s power to help in every emergency. Man is, through faith, to be a partaker in the divine nature, and to overcome every temptation wherewith he is beset. The Lord now demands that every son and daughter of Adam through faith in Jesus Christ serve Him in human nature which we now have.

    several things wrong here, but one I want to focus on: I am not a son of adam. Period.
     
  12. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    If the Law were enough we would have had no need for a Christ. The Jew had thousands of years of Law, yet they failed at every turn. . .

    The "gospel" of these cults is nothing more than, obey these rules and live. The Gospel of Christ is, I have obeyed the Law. Come to Me.
     
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  13. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Ellen White: "The Lord Jesus came to our world, not to reveal what a God could do, but what a man could do through faith in God’s power to help in every emergency."[/QUOTE]

    Man obeying the Law, that's the "gospel" and "salvation" of the SDA.
     
  14. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Context was about Satan in artwork, in the various misrepresenting pictures of a foulish looking being, when in fact, that is not how he actually looks:

    "... We are to be partakers of knowledge. As I have seen pictures representing Satan coming to Christ in the wilderness of temptation in the form of a hideous monster, I have thought, How little such ones know of the Bible. Before his fall, Satan was next to Christ, the highest angel in heaven. How foolish then to suppose that he approached Christ in the wilderness in any such form as is given him in the illustration “The Game of Life.” Some here have seen that picture. After the Saviour had fasted forty days and forty nights, “He was afterward an hungered.” Then it was that Satan appeared to Him. He came as a beautiful angel from heaven, claiming that he had a commission from God to declare the Saviour’s fast at an end. “If Thou be the Son of God,” he said to Christ, “command that these stones be made bread.” But in Satan’s insinuation of distrust, Christ recognized the enemy whose power He had come to the earth to resist. He would not accept the challenge, nor be moved by the temptation. He stood firmly to the affirmative, “Man shall not live by bread alone,” He said, “but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” ..." - Ms 99a, 1908 -- Ellen G. White Writings

    Of course, according to scripture [KJB] Satan [Lucifer] was the highest created being in Heaven, and thus stood next to Christ in Honour. Lucifer was the "anointed cherub that coverth" the True Ark and Mercy Seat in Heaven, wherein the original Law of God is still kept.

    Jesus is not a mere "angel" [a created being, as Gabriel, Lucifer, etc], but is the supreme and highest [uncreated, and eternal] Angel [messenger] of the Father:

    "... Pray, yes, pray with unshaken faith and trust. The Angel of the Covenant, even our Lord Jesus Christ, is the Mediator who secures the acceptance of the prayers of His believing ones. ..." - Letters to Physicians and Ministers, Page 15 -- Ellen G. White Writings

    I have already proved [Biblically, KJB, historically, etc] that practically the entire reformation, and those even before them, who held to the true word of God, understood the Son of God this way, see for yourself - Michael the archangel - The Character That Will Stand [KJB]

    You will never find, in all of sister White's inspired writings, that Jesus is a created angel, but always and ever the eternal Son, the ArchAngel [highest messenger/ambassdor/Apostle] of the Father.

    Your misunderstanding of the word "angel" has nothing to say about sister White's correct use of the term in regards either satan or Christ Jesus, or even of King David, John the Baptist, Malachi, etc.
     
  15. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    You can't set the record straight if nobody reads what you post.
     
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  16. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    "Sister White" said this "Before his fall, Satan was, next to Christ, the highest angel in heaven.”

    There is no spin that can fix it.
     
  17. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Going from sister White quotes to your anti-nominian [lawlessness, which is sin 1 John 3:4 KJB] view is a bait and switch of the OP.

    Jesus Christ is the perfect man, being the econd and last Adam, and he indeed obeyed the Law, and was sinless [ie transgressed not in a single precept], in thought, word or deed] as it is written:

    John 15:10 KJB - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    Romans 9:30 KJB -What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith

    Romans 9:31 KJB -But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

    Romans 9:32 KJB -Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    Galatians 3:21 KJB - Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    The Law is never enough. Which is why the Law [Exodus 20:1-17 KJB] begins with God's mercy and salvation, read it:

    Exodus 20:1 KJB - And God spake all these words, saying

    Exodus 20:2 KJB - I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    That is mercy/grace ... then followed by obedience in love, by strength given of God to accomplish what He says ...

    Exodus 20:6 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

    John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    In Exodus, it was the Lamb slain, then taken to the Law, and taken to the sanctuary, etc, etc.
     
  18. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Their willing blindess is not my problem to solve, Christ Jesus provided the eye salve in the messages evidenced.
     
  19. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    She might be your sister, but she isn't mine.
     
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  20. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Would my great awakening come once I find your harlot my savior?
     
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