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reading level of various Bibles

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by mcdirector, Jan 10, 2010.

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  1. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

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    I Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

    20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
    26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

    Seems some one might be having problems understanding the 1st epistle to Corinth.:flower:



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  2. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    These verses have nothing to do with this argument. They have to do with salvation being through Jesus exclusively. The gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing. What version of the Bible they prefer to read about Jesus is of no consequence. A person can come to know the one and only Savior, Jesus Christ, through reading from the KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, and even in The Message and The Living Bible (to mention of few).
     
  3. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

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    Never said they couldn't, so your opinion is unwarranted.

    These verses are NOT limited to salvation alone for they also deal with the sanctification of the believer.

    That's what's wrong with the "Gospel is the same in all versions" arguement. The word of God is not limited to the Gospel alone.

    These verses have to do with the wisdom of God in all things concerning Christ verses the wisdom of men which is brought to nothing.

    A major portion of the manifold wisdom of God is that as men teach others God works through that teaching when it is concerning His word. The higher the level of His word the more effectual it is, well, according to God's standard it is, not according to man's standards here.
     
  4. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Please provide proof of your statement. What exactly are "God's standards" which proclaim that "the higher the level of His word the more effectual it is".
     
  5. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    So the more intellectual a version the better?

    And that would be in what verse??

    I'm glad the translators of a particular version disagreed with you. If they did, they would not have written that version.
     
  6. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

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    Isaiah 55:7-9 (King James Version)

    7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

    8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

    9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


    There is no higher level than God just ask the King of Tyre.
     
  7. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

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    Didn't say that but quite the contrary.

    The higher level a work is written in provides opportunity to attain a hugher level of understanding. If this were not so then we'd all be reading first grade books to make life simple.

    [snipped - personal attack]
     
    #47 Harold Garvey, Jan 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2010
  8. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Looks like this thread has reached an impasse. Not awfully surprised either.
     
  9. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    What is interesting is that Jesus spoke against the head knowledge of the religious zealots in His day - yet He praised the children.
     
  10. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

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    He also told His children to go and teach them, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

    No one is promoting the zealots, but why it is so many are promoting illiteracy, I cannot begin to imagine, except the same old song and dance of trying to control people by limiting their education.

    I want to see others serve the lORD ALSO, NOT SERVE UNDER MY "MIGHTY" HAND OF INTELLECT AND PROVIDE THEM A DUMBED DOWN VERSION AND THEN RAIL ON THEM FOR NOT KNOWING gREEK AND hEBREW.:type:

    Why is it so many of you are supposed to be adults who should have made it to the 12th grade ,but want versions on lower levels? Do you really think yoursleves to be so wise and everyone else to be so uneducated!


    Yep, the impasse has been reached because I won't budge!
    :type:
     
  11. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

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    BTW, Ann, once the soul is filled with Light and one is saved, all head knowledge becomes heart knowledge.:godisgood::godisgood::godisgood:
     
  12. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I agree about the heart knowledge but that doesn't help when the language is not an understandable language for people today. Yes, we all can read a 12th grade level book but does that mean that we fully understand all we can about it? I'm personally not going to pick a Bible based on grade level - I'm going to pick it on it's faithfulness to the original and it's readability for me today. For me, that is the ESV. My teen daughters are also reading the ESV and my younger children have read everything from the KJV to the Living Bible but their personal Bibles are the NIV. My son and daugher's curriculum is KJV based and they will read the passages in the KJV to answer the questions but then will read in the NIV to understand what it's actually saying. The KJV is just above their understanding in the syntax and many of the words. But the NIV is understandable for them because it's in the language they understand. Is that wrong?
     
  13. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    I still do not see Bible versions referenced anywhere in those verses.
     
    #53 Mexdeaf, Jan 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2010
  14. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey New Member

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    If they turn to a source for the right answer, how is it they didnt understand and still found it?
     
  15. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    And your kind would keep people in ignorance by forbidding them a version in the common English and instead subjecting them to your intellect.
     
  16. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    "Indeed without translation into the vulgar tongue, the unlearned are but like children at Jacob's well (which is deep) [John 4:11] without a bucket or something to draw with; or as that person mentioned by Isaiah, to whom when a sealed book was delivered, with this motion, "Read this, I pray thee," he was fain to make this answer, "I cannot, for it is sealed." [Isa 29:11]"

    "But we desire that the Scripture may speak like itself, as in the language of Canaan, that it may be understood even of the very vulgar."
     
  17. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    They parrot it back to the book, but it is just that... parroting. They are using the KJV because that is what their particular curiculum uses. And I am sure Ann will correct me if I am amiss, but she made it very plain.

    I used to do the same thing in school. I could bounce back the teacher's words without thinking about it at all, but I would have to go and look it up to actually understand what was said. That ability works great for tests, but is of little use in the real world. If Ann's kids only repeated what the lesson wanted, but never actually used a translation they could read with understanding*, they would be successful with the lesson but fail at actually learning anything.

    * - That is the crux of the whole issue of the KJV and its assigned reading level. Most cannot read it with understanding... and that has nothing to do with their spiritual state. Sure, it is a "higher learning" book, but only because of its archaic vocabulary and twisted grammar and syntax. In other words, no one talks like that anymore, and haven't for over 400 years (and even then it was not the language of the common people). Arguing about the KJV being better because it is 12th grade reading level is completely backwards. The reason it is that level is because of its impracticality today.

    I would rather give a new convert, or someone young in the Lord, a bible they can read and comprehend right where they are without needing someone at their elbow to explain every single thing. I wish I had had a translation like that when I first came to the Lord, as I could not comprehend the KJV well enough to internalize it (and I am well above college level in reading comprehension, but I had not grown up in church or on the KJV).

    Honestly, the mods could close this thread and it would be merciful to the OP. It has degenerated into (yet another) shambles.
     
  18. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I have done my best to keep it alive despite the attempts to close discussion. We can keep these threads going if off topic derailing posts are reported and then ignored. Otherwise they become unmanageable and those who want to squelch debate 'win.'
     
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