Excellent. And I would add 2 Tim. 4:1, "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom."
Reasons for the 2nd Coming of Christ
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by John of Japan, Oct 30, 2017.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
JOJ said;
Yes, I do believe in the blessed hope of the second coming, albeit I see it as the Last day.
I was responding to your comment here...in red;
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite SupporterIconoclast said: ↑I was responding to your comment here...in red;Click to expand...
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterJohn of Japan said: ↑Sorry, but I don't buy that. You post did not mention anything about God receiving glory in connection with the 2nd Coming, in particular in AD 70. You did quote Heb. 2:7, which mentions Christ's glory, but you wrote nothing about it in regards to the 2nd Coming or the coming of Titus.Click to expand...
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite SupporterIconoclast said: ↑I just tried to clarify it by adding the verses I think tie it together, I edited it in to clarifyClick to expand...
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Christ is also coming again to rule over the entire earth. Rev. 12:10 says, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ."
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterJohn of Japan said: ↑Christ is also coming again to rule over the entire earth. Rev. 12:10 says, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ."Click to expand...
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterJohn of Japan said: ↑So then, what is your point in regards to the 2nd Coming of Christ? I haven't figured it out yet.Click to expand...
Jesus will be glorified in the salvation of a multitude of sinners to the praise of His glorious grace,and also glorified in the damnation of a multitude of sinners to the praise of His glorious justice. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite SupporterIconoclast said: ↑70 ad was a coming in the clouds....a coming in judgment,but not the second coming which will be at the last day.
Jesus will be glorified in the salvation of a multitude of sinners to the praise of His glorious grace,and also glorified in the damnation of a multitude of sinners to the praise of His glorious justice.Click to expand...
So, was Christ glorified in an AD 70 coming? -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Another purpose for the 2nd Coming of Christ is to put everything under the feet of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:28). This is, of course, a different way of saying He will rule as King during the Millennium.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterJohn of Japan said: ↑Okay, that's better. I can at least understand a partial preterist view such as yours.
So, was Christ glorified in an AD 70 coming?Click to expand...
At the same time Jesus had just wept over Jerusalem because they would not come to Him...mt 23:37......so His full final warning to that generation was going to come upon that very generation.
Mt.24 was fulfilled at that time.
The coming in the clouds....the end of the Israelite kingdom ,the beginning of the Heavenly rule and reign...carrying out Mt. 28....all bring.glory to God. -
Iconoclast said: ↑I believe God is glorified in all His actions even His righteous judgments which the saints in Rev.19:1-4 all to a person praise Him for.
At the same time Jesus had just wept over Jerusalem because they would not come to Him...mt 23:37......so His full final warning to that generation was going to come upon that very generation.
Mt.24 was fulfilled at that time.
The coming in the clouds....the end of the Israelite kingdom ,the beginning of the Heavenly rule and reign...carrying out Mt. 28....all bring.glory to God.Click to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporteragedman said: ↑Does not this then contend that all prophecy concerning the restoration of the nation of The Jews, and the physical reign of the messiah of both the OT and NT be seen as either fulfilled or spiritualized into some hyperbole or allegory?Click to expand...
The difference is that it is individual Israelites....not the physical nation rising up....
The NT. Israel is the Holy Nation....the Christian Israel both now and eternally
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
1 Peter 2:9 KJV
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterJohn of Japan said: ↑Another purpose for the 2nd Coming of Christ is to put everything under the feet of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:28). This is, of course, a different way of saying He will rule as King during the Millennium.Click to expand...
We agree on the eternal state.....
you insert the 1000 yrs part way through this time since pentecost and the eternal state.
TC things it is after this time, but also before the eternal state...
The other two views see it...[the 1000yr period] happening now, right up until the last day.
Eschatology Chart
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Iconoclast said: ↑Or.....that the current rule and reign of King Jesus in the midst of His enemies as the church and kingdom spread worldwide right until the end.
We agree on the eternal state.....
you insert the 1000 yrs part way through this time since pentecost and the eternal state.
TC things it is after this time, but also before the eternal state...
The other two views see it...[the 1000yr period] happening now, right up until the last day.
Eschatology Chart
Click to expand...
4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
See, the second resurrection occurs to begin the millennial reign.
NOT before the tribulation.
This is not a prevention of a rapture, but the Scripture is clear about the second coming by both label and event. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
agedman said: ↑You left out that which the Scriptures state in the chart:
4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
See, the second resurrection occurs to begin the millennial reign.
NOT before the tribulation.
This is not a prevention of a rapture, but the Scripture is clear about the second coming by both label and event.Click to expand...
It has been more than a literal thousand years since these saints were beheaded...so the term 1000yrs seems to be speaking of the whole period of time... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
agedman,
See, the second resurrection occurs to begin the millennial reign.Click to expand... -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Okay, everyone, please don't sidetrack the thread. It's not about the details of the millennium or tribulation. It's strictly and narrowly about the 2nd Coming of Christ.
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John of Japan said: ↑Okay, everyone, please don't sidetrack the thread. It's not about the details of the millennium or tribulation. It's strictly and narrowly about the 2nd Coming of Christ.Click to expand...
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Iconoclast said: ↑
You are assuming the tribulation is future...I believe it has past.
It has been more than a literal thousand years since these saints were beheaded...so the term 1000yrs seems to be speaking of the whole period of time...Click to expand...
I was just showing specific verses concerning the second coming as it relates to a time line.
A timeline not included on the copy of the chart you posted.
The one above at least shows the comparison in two views more accurately. :)
As a believer in the Scriptures, would it not such a statement giving such specifics as to both time and event oblige folks conform their thinking?
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