1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT IS CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 3rdAngel, Sep 7, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. Your Words are not directed towards me but to the one who the Word belongs. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him.
     
  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    A PARABLE

    Some were told by the one who knows all things; Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: this was because those hearing made themselves a hardened heart that said "Lo this word is not for me who can hear it? I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing".

    Travelling along the way those who would not hear fell into the ditch they call delusion that all fall into that kick against the pricks because they lost their mirror that shows the way when the path is dark and narrow.

    Their lamp was a guide to them but they did not have enough oil. Their lamp then went out and now they sit in darkness falling into the dtich they cannot find their way out.

    Some travellers in the way walked by and saw some of these sitting in darkeness who lost their way and offered them some oil for their lamps but they being proud would not accept the gift and did not want to receive any help choosing instead to make their home in the ditch which the Lord of the way gave them over to because they loved darkness rather then the light because their deeds were evil.

    Tick tock goes the watch the time for grace is running out. Who will hear the call to go out and meet the brifegroom? Only those that have their lamps trimmed and full of oil and who have not lost their mirror that shows them the way when the road is dark and narrow.

    God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God)
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Matthew 15:19
    For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander.

    Matthew 24:37

    Romans 1:28
    Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.


    Psalm 14:1
    The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good.

    Proverbs 6:18
    a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that run swiftly to evil,
     
  4. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,423
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Care to guess how many times have you repeated these words of your's here?

    ...try to understand why with your repeated fallacious argument that you are not going to convince me that your interpretations are equivalent to the words of God or that you have received some sort of special understanding of them.

    All I hear is you missing the big picture of the grace of God with your private interpretations of the scriptures which you love to present with repeated Ad nauseam fallacious arguments to push a false and heretical conclusion.

    “If you take part of the truth, and try to make that part of the truth, all of the truth, then that part of the truth becomes an untruth.” ~ Adrian Rogers

    Not one person here, from either side of soteriological issues, or elsewhere agrees with your proselytizing which has got this trolling agenda of yours banned from other Christian sites for good reason. Friend, before you come on here to "teach" - "us" ("who disagree you and therefore disagree with God") about the meaning of scripture you should check that insightful cosmic consciousness of yours and first meditate on this verse long and hard!

    (2Pe 1:20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    Indeed, because repeating yourself by ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear. You are free to believe as you wish, I do not judge you. God's Word will be our judge *JOHN 12:47-48 in that day. Sadly though many will find out too late when they had the chance to hear God's Word but chose to turn away from the scriptures in order to follow man made traditions that they did not know the day of their visitation thinking they were saved but were not *MATTHEW 7:22-23. There is nothing hidded that shall not be revealed. Many are called but few are chosen because men love darkness rather then light because their deeds were evil. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

    God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word). Those who are not God's Sheep do not hear His Voice.
     
  6. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,423
    Likes Received:
    1,160
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Here's the problem with you not understanding when I tell you: "..try to understand why with your repeated fallacious argument that you are not going to convince me that your interpretations are equivalent to the words of God or that you have received some sort of special understanding of them." - I truly believe that it is your heretical agenda to weaken the faith of immature Christians with a message of the necessity of work-based evidence of salvation and that puts darkness upon the FREE GRACE GOSPEL MESSAGE OF GOD.

    The scripture you often use, Matthew 7:22-23, speaks against you and you don’t even see this. It is the exact opposite of your interpretation. Those words of God are part of a bigger message that is being revealed for those with eyes to see (1Cor2) that your works, as well as the works of the Jews before you, did NOT EVER SAVE ANYONE – all that were saved were saved by FAITH ALONE in what Christ has done for them! Yet, foolishly you stumble over this message and believe it to support your false doctrines of worked-based evidence of salvation when in reality this condemnation refers to those who are putting their faith in the accomplishment of THEIR works while they thank Christ for the privilege of being so in His name as if THEY have been productive – saying Lord, Lord, look at all the wonderful works we have done in Your Name.

    I have a message for you. You haven’t done anything special my friend. Your works are but dirty rags! The object of your faith is seriously messed up! You are a sinner and deserving of nothing but Hell, except for the FREE gift of God which comes in faith of WHAT CHRIST HAS DONE, NOT YOU!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    My dear friend, you seem quite mixed up. Let's look at the detail...
    Nope! I understood you the first time and responded to all of your posts with scripture showing you are in error with God's Word which are not my words but God's. Your response was to deny God's Word with your own words which are not God's. Only God's word is true and your words are your own and not God's.
    You have been provided God's Word and God's Word is not mine but Gods. You are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you. We all answer only to God come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. God's Sheep Hear His Voice (the Word) and follow Him. Those who are not God's Sheep do not hear him neither do they follow *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.
    These are just more of your words which are not God's Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. You have only had God's Word shared with you but you do not believe it and you cannot show from the scriptures why it is you do not believe God's Word. Does this not worry you? It should as only God's Word is true what we think does not matter if it is against what God says. These are God's Word not mine therefore your argument is with God not me. You are free to beleive and do as you wish I do not judge you. We all answer only to God come judgment day.
    Your post and claims here have no truth in them and is only more of your words denying God's making false claims no one has ever said or believes. This is sad for you but so there is no misunderstangs as to what it is I believe I will state it clearly for you so you have no excuse to say things no one has said or believes....

    We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

    If you would like to talk about the OP or scripture please let me know. If you are only interested in arguing for the sake of an argument I am not really interested in what you have to say and we will have to agree to disagree. This is only sent in love and I wish you only a closer walk with JESUS.

    Hope this helps.
     
    #107 3rdAngel, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26

    2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

    3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
     
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8."

    No one has ever been Saved unless they were "dead":

    EPHESIANS2:1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;"

    No one has ever been Saved unless they were "dead" and God "quickened" their soul, with The New Birth from Above.

    No one that is dead, "dead in trespasses and sins;" has ever made themselves "quickened" any more than a dead rock turns into something alive.

    The false wildness in guesswork of 'evolution' has already tried to be invented, but "life comes from death" is not factual.

    "RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT IS CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD" = non-Biblical, Anti-Christ heresy.

    Hope that helps.







    OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12;

    Any Bible Believer knows that:
    "RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT IS CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD" = non-Biblical, Anti-Christ heresy, because ... "it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

    PHILIPPIANS 2:13.


    If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
     
    #109 Alan Gross, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  10. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    I see Alan, so according to you receiving God's Spirit is not conditional on believing and following God's Word. Well nope! That is not biblical at all. Onlt those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word are God's Sheep *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27. If you are not God's Sheep you do not have God's Spirit *JOHN 6:63. Receiving God's Spirit is conditional on believing and following God's Word ACTS 2:38.

    If you do not believe and follow God's Word you need to be born again to walk in God's Spirit..

    JOHN 3:3-8 [3], Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [5], Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [6], That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7], Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again.
    [8], The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    ACT 2:38 [38], Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    God's Sheep Hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him.
     
  11. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Has your will ever been, or will your will ever be CAPIBLE of having the will to come to The Bible and will to have God Place your will under the Category of "dead", "wicked", "blind", "evil", "God-Hating", "Anti-Christ", "blasphemous", with the "thoughts and imaginations" of your will and "deceived and desparatly wicked heart" "only evil continually"?
     
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist




    So, you have 'a man be born of water' as another gospel to add to the others?

    You might want to slow down on all the 'will' & 'born' & 'faith' & 'believe' stuff, when no Spiritually dead descendant of Adam has ever had any capibility to perform any activity from God's Perspective, except sin.

    A sinner sinning is a sinner, even if they sinfully 'think' they 'will' anything but sin, are 'born' anything but flesh, have 'faith' in THEIR finite carnality or 'believe' they have the power of God to exault themselves above His Throne and BOAST TO HIGH HEAVEN of THEIR MAGNIFICENCE.

    The wages of sin is death.

    Sinners are Law Breakers who hate and reject God.

    And God is God.

    There is an Infinite difference between man that's a worm and God Almighty Who's Wrath Abides on The sin of the wicked.

    Flee The Wrath of God to Come.

     
  13. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    The only other Gospel is those that do not believe and follow God's Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. If you are still in your sins you need to be born of God. This is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10; 1 JOHN 2:1-4; MATTHEW 7:22-23.
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    These verses each discribe another gospel, for example, to anyone who teaches that salvation is indicated by these words in bold:

    1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4

    2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4

    3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4

    4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5

    5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5

    6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6

    7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6

    8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

    ...

    So. There are 8. Specific instances where unbelievers are credited with a salvation they do not have, by false teachers.

    ...

    Just as in Romans 3:4, no one is Saved by their 'sayings', or overcomes the darkness of their Spiritual blindness by mentally 'believing' they do and physically 'following' what they desire is passable that they call 'God' s word':

    3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

    ...

    The pure mental 'believing', WITHOUT GOD, leaves the lost 'thinking', again.

    Along with the 8 false hopes of lost souls, above;

    They 'think' they:

    9. don't sin,

    10. can't sin,

    11. that they are 'manifest' as born again, because they don't sin and can't sin.

    ...

    6 Whosoever abideth in him (9.) sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

    . 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    9 Whosoever is born of God (10.) doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    10 In this the children of God are (11.) manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    ...

    No one is Saved by their 12a. 'sayings', or overcomes the darkness of their Spiritual blindness by mentally 12b. 'believing' they do and 13. physically 'following' what they deside is passable that they call 'God's word', like that they:

    9. don't sin,

    10. can't sin,

    11. that they are 'manifest' as born again, because they don't sin and can't sin.

    ... or by 14. getting wet in water, or

    ... having some notion:

    (the previous 8.)

    1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4

    2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4

    3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4

    4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5

    5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5

    ... and that they were:

    6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6

    7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6

    8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6
    ...

    That's 14 gospels, just grabbing at straws to shows a few examples.

    ...

    Then, a few more from the 'proof texts' quoted by those who depend on their own 'thinking' and 'doing' and inventing one false gosple, after another:

    I John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, (ability to not sin 15.) that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, (16.) if we keep his commandments.

    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    ...

    Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not (17.) prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have (18.) cast out devils? and in thy name (19.) done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    ...

    There are 19 false hopes of those who Jesus Says, "work iniquity".

    Jesus does not say at The Last Day that He Knows them, as His child.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    Hello Alan, sorry I am not sure what your post has to do with anything we have been discussing here or how anything you have posted relates to what has been previously posted to be honest. You seem to be reading things into the scriptures that are not in the scripture. Thanks for sharing your thoughts though.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,107
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Given HEBREWS 10:17 is God's promise to BELIEVERS. You did not give any explanation of that PROMISE as what it means, "'. . . and their sins and their lawless deeds I shall by no means remember any longer.'" -- EMTV.

     
    #116 37818, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Just plug this verse in:

    “by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation”
    ( Romans 5:18).

    * "Adam was much more than the father of the humanrace:

    "he was also their legal agent, standing in their stead.

    "His descendants were not only in him generatively as their natural head, but also morally and legally as their moral and legalhead.

    "In other words, by divine constitution and covenantAdam acted as the federal representative of all his children.

    "By an act of His sovereign will, it pleased God to ordain that Adam’s relation to his natural seed should be like that which Christ sustained to His spiritual seed—the one acting on the behalf of many.

    "The whole human race was placed on probation in the person of its legal representative and covenant head.

    "This is a truth of great importance, for it casts light not only on much in Scripture, but upon human history too.

    "While Adam retained the approbation of God and remained in fellowship with Him, the whole of his constituency did likewise.

    "Had he survived the appointed trial, had he faithfully and fitly discharged his responsibility, had he continued in obedience to the Lord God, then his obedience would have been reckoned to their account, and they would have entered into and shared his reward.

    "Contrariwise, if the head failed and fell, then all his members fell with him.

    "If he disobeyed, then his disobedience was charged to those whom he represented, and the frightful punishment pronounced on him fell likewise on those on whose behalf he transacted.

    "Justice required that the whole human race should be legally regarded and dealt with as sharing the guilt of its representative, and subjected to the same penalty.

    "In consequence of this arrangement, when Adam sinned we sinned, and therefore

    “by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation”
    ( Romans 5:18). *

    From: * CHAPTER - IMPUTATION
     
    #117 Alan Gross, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    Hello numbers, this post was addressed somewhere else already. HEBREWS 10:17 is God's promise to believers. All the book of HEBREWS (and the bible) is written for believers. HEBREWS 6:4-8 is a WARNING to BELIEVERS not to fall away back into known unrepentant sin to become unbelievers. This was demonstrated scripture by scriptures in this post here that shows HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 is a WARNING to believers not to depart the faith after given a knowledge of the truth. If you can please make your case. No one has so far. If you cannot why not believe God's Word.

    God bless
     
  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    Sorry Alan your posts do not seem to make any sense in relation to what we are discussing. How does what you have posted here respond to what you are responding to? It doesn't. This is the same about your post in relation to HEBREWS 6:4-8.
     
    #119 3rdAngel, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist

    You don't know, do you?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...