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RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT IS CONDITIONAL ON BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 3rdAngel, Sep 7, 2019.

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  1. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Thank you. This post is only another example of you not addressing the post and the scriptures provided that disagree with you and you denying God's Word which are not my words but God's Word with your own words.

    There is no problem with using JOHN 3:14-21 as a reference to faith as the GREEK word meaning for BELIEVE in the context of these scriptures is rendered FAITH. Or are you trying to argue that faith or believing God's Word is not a condition of salvation?

    The GREEK Word used here for believe is πιστεύω; pisteuō From G4102; TO HAVE FAITH (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit ; by implication to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

    Please if you disagree with anything I have posted address the post and the scriptures that disagree with you. If you cannot why do you not believe God's Word? If it God's Word not mine and they disagree with you. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

    Hope this is helpful.
     
  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Guess you dug your hole too quickly :Smile
     
  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You do not agree with God having you participate in The Fall of Adam, into a dead condition that has no Spirit CAPIBLE of relating to or believing or having 'faith' in God Who is Spirit,

    ... but you do 'allow' God to participate in you opening your entrance into Heaven, by boasting of your 'faith' and your 'belief' that He can't help but worship you for.
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 10:39 refers to those who are saved. And Hebrews 6:4-8 does not refer to someone who was saved. Now Hebrews 10:26 refers to one who refuse God's forgivenes, Hebrews 10:17-18, ". . . And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. . . ." Because Christ died once, Hebrews 10:10, ". . . By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. . . ." Hebrews 10:26-29, ". . . For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? . . ." Refusing God's forgiveness (Hebrews 10:17), as those cited in Hebrews 6:4-8! God sanctifies men to save them (1 Peter 1:2, ". . . through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: . . ." John 16:7-11, ". . . Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;: Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. . . ." Yet there are those who resist God's Spirit, Acts of the Apostles 7:51, ". . . Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. . . ." As cited in Hebrews 10:28.
     
    #85 37818, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Hello Alan, all I hear again are your words which are not God's Word and NO I do not believe what you say I believe so please do not pretend that I have said or believe something that I do not. Let me know when you want to discuss the scriptures shared with you. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Do you have the will to have God Place your soul into the Category of dead, with zero ability to 'believe', or 'have faith', that is 100% impotent?
     
  8. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Hello brother numbers. You claim here is that HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-38 is not a reference to those who were once believers". Let's examine your claims here in detail and see if there is any truth to what you are saying here.
    HEBREWS 10:38:39 says [38], Now the just shall live by faith: BUT IF ANY MAN SHALL TURN BACK, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. [39], BUT WE ARE NOT OF THEM THAT DRAW BACK TO PERDITION ; BUT OF THEM THAT BELIEVE TO THE SAVING OF THE SOUL.

    Note: HEBREWS 10:39 and all of HEBREWS is to BELIEVERS. HEBREWS 10:38-39 is a closing summary statement of what is being discussed before which is a WARNING to believers of "THOSE WHO TURN BACK" those who "DRAW BACK" This is in reference to the CONTEXT already given in HEBREWS 10:26 onward of those who turn back to sin v27-27 "IF WE (believers) SIN AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH there remains no more sacrifice for sins, v27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Adding the CONTEXT back in, HEBREWS 10:26-39 is a WARNING to BELIEVERS not to "TURN BACK" or "DRAW BACK" to a life of known unrepentant sin.
    WRONG! HEBREWS 6:4-8 is a reference to those who were "ONCE BELIEVERS" but had "FALLEN AWAY"

    Let's look at exactly what these scriptures say...

    HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those (1) WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and (2) HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and (3) WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have (4) TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and (5) THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, [6], (6) IF THEY (believers) (7) SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; (8) WHOS END IS TO BE BURNED.

    The following are taken directly word for word from the above scriptures...

    1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
    2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
    3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
    4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
    5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5
    6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6
    7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6
    8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

    God's Word alone (not mine) says that these people who had "FALLEN AWAY" from the faith v6 (note HEBREWS 10:26:39 "TURN BACK; DRAW BACK to perdition"). These people were once enlightened to the truth; they tasted of the heavenly gift *EPHESIANS 2:8-9, they received the HOLY SPIRIT; They tasted of the good word of God. These scriptures are indicative of those who BELIEVED and FOLLOWED God's WORD. They received Gods Spirit but "TURNED AWAY; they DREW BACK (HEBREWS 10:26-39); they had FALLEN AWAY v6 and retured back to a life of known unrepentant sin v6 (see HEBREWS 10:26 that says the same thing; "IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THEIR REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SIN BUT A FEARFUL LOOKING FORWARD OF JUDGMENT.

    Now brother, these are God's Words not mine and it is God's Word that WARNS us not to "TURN BACK; DRAW BACK to sin and FALL AWAY from the faith once we receive a KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. The WARNING here is that BELIEVERS can become UNBELIEVERS. Can you see your error here? Sorry brother God's Word disagree with you. This is only sent in love and as a help to you.
    We refuse God's forgiveness by contiuing in known unrepentant sin. This is the point of HEBREWS 10:26-39; IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH; If we FALL AWAY; DEPART THE FAITH; DRAW BACK v38-39.

    Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you. HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 are in reference to those who were "ONCE BELIEVERS" and had fallen away from the faith to a life of sin to become "UNBELIEVERS". This is only sent in love and as a help for you so you may have a closer walk with JESUS. I hope you can receive this in the Spirit it was given (love)
     
    #88 3rdAngel, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  9. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    All I hear is you missing the big picture of the grace of God with your private interpretations of the scriptures which you love to present with repeated Ad nauseam fallacious arguments to push a false and heretical conclusion.

    “If you take part of the truth, and try to make that part of the truth, all of the truth, then that part of the truth becomes an untruth.” ~ Adrian Rogers

    Not one person here, from either side of soteriological issues, or elsewhere agrees with your proselytizing which has got this trolling agenda of yours banned from other Christian sites for good reason. Friend, before you come on here to "teach" - "us" ("who disagree you and therefore disagree with God") about the meaning of scripture you should check that insightful cosmic consciousness of yours and first meditate on this verse long and hard!

    (2Pe 1:20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
     
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  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Spirit of God Bares Witness in a Saved soul, and that individual is Enabled to understand this Passage in Hebrews.

    If a soul is Spiritually Teachable and they post your explanation, over and over, they can be Taught what God Teaches, here.
     
  11. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Nice, Benjamin. !!
     
  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Hello Benjamin, some comments for your consideration below.
    Nope! You have been provided God's Word and God's Word is not my words. In response you provide your words which are not God's Word. Please by all means prove your claims with the scriptures. If you cannot why do you not believe the scriptures that have been provided and only sent in love and as a help to you? Only God's Word is true and you have provided none.
    Then do not do it. We must ask God to be our guide and teacher and seek him with all of our heart claiming His promises *HEBREWS 8:11; JOHN 14:26: JOHN 16:13; JOHN 8:31-36
    There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. Your Words are not directed towards me but to the one who the Word belongs. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him.
    Indeed. Then do not try to privately interpret the scriptures. Let God's Word interpret itself.

    Hope this is helpful.

    God's Sheep Hear His Voice (the Word). Those who do not hear His Voice are not God's Sheep.
     
    #92 3rdAngel, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The scripture did not say, "unrepented sin." It did warn, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. . . ." Which you seem not to understand (Hebrews 10:10).

    What is God's promise in Hebrews 10:17? Explain that specific promise to me.
     
  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Sinning willfully is known unrepentant sin *HEBREWS 10:26 and HEBREWS 10:17 is God's promise to BELIEVERS not UNBELIEVERS or those who have FALLEN AWAY, DRAW BACK or DEPART the faith. (HEBREWS 6:6; HEBREWS 10:38-39) to return to a life of known unrepentant sin *HEBREWS 10:26-27.
     
  15. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Read this a little more carefully and try to understand why with your repeated fallacious argument that you are not going to convince me that your interpretations are equivalent to the words of God or that you have received some sort of special understanding of them.

    All I hear is you missing the big picture of the grace of God with your private interpretations of the scriptures which you love to present with repeated Ad nauseam fallacious arguments to push a false and heretical conclusion.

    “If you take part of the truth, and try to make that part of the truth, all of the truth, then that part of the truth becomes an untruth.” ~ Adrian Rogers

    Not one person here, from either side of soteriological issues, or elsewhere agrees with your proselytizing which has got this trolling agenda of yours banned from other Christian sites for good reason. Friend, before you come on here to "teach" - "us" ("who disagree you and therefore disagree with God") about the meaning of scripture you should check that insightful cosmic consciousness of yours and first meditate on this verse long and hard!

    (2Pe 1:20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
     
    #95 Benjamin, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  16. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Why would I need read it again when I read and understood your post the first time and addressed it section by section in post # 92 above linked. You are only repeating yourself and ignoring the response provided to you. You are providing your words to argue against God's. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4.

    God's Sheep Hear His Voice (the Word). Those who are not His Sheep do not Hear Him.
     
  17. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Coming from you, who has copied and pasted your proselytizing not only here but all over the web before getting banned for it that it pretty darn funny! [​IMG]
     
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  18. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. Who am I that he should choose me out of the world? I am no one but he is all. If I did not believe him I would not know him. What can I do without him? He is love and now I love. I follow him now because I love him who first loved me. You say that I have not answered you, but I indeed answered you with His Word but you do not hear him because you have chosen not to hear his Word to you. I do not judge you but His Word will judge us because they are there for all to see. All are welcome to see and hear God's Word, however many are called but few are chosen.
     
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 6:5 "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
     
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