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Regeneration ---- Then Faith
- Thread starter tnelson
- Start date
The Scriptures refer to the beginning of spiritual life in terms of creation. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature" 2 Cor.5:17. "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature"Gal.6:15. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus" Eph.2:10. In the initial process of natural creation,man was insensible to the physical world without the life-imparting breath of God; so in spiritual creation, man remains dead to anything spiritual without the life-imparting Spirit of God, 1Cor.2:14. In a most tragic sense, every sinner is dead to paradise. Just as Adam required God's breath for physical life, every sinner requires a gracious and special intervention of God to bring him to spiritual life. Consequently, the Scripture speaks of God's making dead sinners alive. "But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us (made us alive) together with Christ" Eph.2:4-5. "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened (made alive) together with Him..." Col.2:13. Adam made no contribution to his becoming alive; neither does the sinner aid God in becomming spiritually alive. Creation is always the unique and exclusive work of God. Who can explain the miracle of life?
Nope. Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit on the human heart that enables man to believe.
You're right that man's religion is all about man but Christianity is not just another manmade religion. Christianity is God revealing himself to us and placing His Spirit in us through Salvation in His Son's name.
Ray Berrian
New Member
Romans 10:17 indicates that before anything is said about regeneration, justification, or sanctification a sinner has to read or hear the Word of God about salvation, before he or she can receive Christ [John 1:12]. The Bible does not say, 'Regeneration cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God', but rather suggests that 'Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.'
People can hear the Gospel as the Israelites did without being regenerated, justified or sanctified. Jesus through the Apostle Paul said, 'All day long I have stretched forth My hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.' [Romans 10:21] I kind of looks like the creature, a man or woman, has something to say about whether they wanted to be regenerated or to remain in their sins. Our Lord never suggests Divine manipulation.
People can hear the Gospel as the Israelites did without being regenerated, justified or sanctified. Jesus through the Apostle Paul said, 'All day long I have stretched forth My hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.' [Romans 10:21] I kind of looks like the creature, a man or woman, has something to say about whether they wanted to be regenerated or to remain in their sins. Our Lord never suggests Divine manipulation.
This is "a belief" that you have, and not a true fact! Regeneration is CHANGE OF PERSUASION with the resultant change in behavior...Born Again!
Twist your own words, you'll not get away with twisting mine. Religion is all about man, it is about man's belief in God. It consists of man's perceptions of God, and man's responses to God. We are not talking about a religion of man, as you imply that I am.
Again, this is a belief that you hold and not a true fact! You see, Christianity is a belief system that is manifest in a life-style. Those who adhere to the Christ's person and teachings are Christian. Christianity is not God revealing Himself, God's word, which we commonly hold to be the Bible as constituted, does that, and convinces people to become Christians and hold to Christianity, a belief system.
Our beliefs reveal what we know and believe of God. Christian beliefs reveal what we know and believe about the Christ. The Word of God reveals God to man, the Holy Spirit persuades man of the truth that man experiences which results in faith held in a wide variety of ways, hense, Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Calvinist, Arminian, etc.
Religion is man's understanding of Deity! God don't need no religion!
No he never suggests Divine Manipulation but He sure does his Saving Work in the Hearts of men and women!
(Acts 16:14 KJV) And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
So Yelsew2,
You believe Salvation is Subjective rather than Objective.
It's real as long as you believe it's real and if you stop believing it's real then it's gone.
That is Religion Not Christianity.
You believe Salvation is Subjective rather than Objective.
It's real as long as you believe it's real and if you stop believing it's real then it's gone.
That is Religion Not Christianity.
Regeneration refers to the implantation of the principle of spiritual life in the heart of the sinner. Ezekiel explained regeneration in terms of God's giving the sinner a new heart and a new spirit. Ez.36:26. What exactly is a stony heart? The prophet's description of the old heart of stone shows an inward nature that is cold, unfeeling, and hard: petrified,one that is totally dead, unable to function. In regeneration, God turns the heart of stone into viable flesh that responds to spiritual stimulation. Regeneration creates a change in the way that a sinner thinks, what he desires and how he chooses to live. In other words, he has a new nature capable of spiritual activity. One moment the sinner was dead, the next he is alive. "Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" 2Cor.5:17. Regeneration is the application of spiritual life that awakens the sinner from the stupor of spiritual death, enabling him to see, and to understand and to grasp Christ as He is offered freely in the gospel.
Yelsew and Skan,
Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:25-28)
Why doesn't verse 27 read, "but you are not my sheep because you don't believe"?
Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:25-28)
Why doesn't verse 27 read, "but you are not my sheep because you don't believe"?
Dear Brother Ray, you wrote:
The Bible does not say, 'Regeneration cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God', but rather suggests that 'Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.'
I agree with you, this is why regeneration must come first and why regeneration occurs only by the power of the Holy Spirit operating on the elect.
People can hear the gospel, they can read the gospel, if they do not have faith it is because they have not been regenerated.
Look at Romans 10.14 and also all of Romans 10. This chapter is expressly speaking of Israel. They were believers in God. But did not submit themselves to the righteousness of God. Instead they set about to establish their own righteousness.
I do not believe Romans 10.14-17 is speaking of regeneration coming after the individual has heard the preached gospel or having read the gospel. In vs. 17 the faith cometh by hearing. That is the faith that the things concerning Christ are true, that the reconciliation is applied to yourself personally.
This faith cannot come from a dead heart as BBNewton points out.
It is because of regeneration the child of God is able to exhibit, profess or any other verb used relating to faith after having heard or read the word of God.
I do believe that all the elect will experience this gospel experience, but I believe they must first experience regeneration, the circumcision of their hearts.
May God Bless
bro. Dallas
The Bible does not say, 'Regeneration cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God', but rather suggests that 'Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.'
I agree with you, this is why regeneration must come first and why regeneration occurs only by the power of the Holy Spirit operating on the elect.
People can hear the gospel, they can read the gospel, if they do not have faith it is because they have not been regenerated.
Look at Romans 10.14 and also all of Romans 10. This chapter is expressly speaking of Israel. They were believers in God. But did not submit themselves to the righteousness of God. Instead they set about to establish their own righteousness.
I do not believe Romans 10.14-17 is speaking of regeneration coming after the individual has heard the preached gospel or having read the gospel. In vs. 17 the faith cometh by hearing. That is the faith that the things concerning Christ are true, that the reconciliation is applied to yourself personally.
This faith cannot come from a dead heart as BBNewton points out.
It is because of regeneration the child of God is able to exhibit, profess or any other verb used relating to faith after having heard or read the word of God.
I do believe that all the elect will experience this gospel experience, but I believe they must first experience regeneration, the circumcision of their hearts.
May God Bless
bro. Dallas
Well said Brother Dallas!
The Baptist Confession of Faith says concerning regeneration that this effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead. Baptist Confession,chapter 10, section 2.
The Baptist Confession of Faith says concerning regeneration that this effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead. Baptist Confession,chapter 10, section 2.
Hardsheller,
It is not religion that saves, it is individual belief or the lack thereof that determines eternal destiny. Salvation comes to those who's faith endures to the end of this natural life. Not to those who gain faith for a while then lose it before dying from this natural life. The latter describes those who have "fallen away". They had to have had the promise before they could lose it by falling away. But, you say, Jesus said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you". When one falls away It is not Jesus that fell away, He remains while those who once believed in Him suffer from heat, lack of water, lack of nutrition, choking out by the weeds (cares of life), etc. I agree that Christianity is not religion, it is life-style, lived by those who live in ever-sustained belief (Faith). But because we are mortal and NOT deity, we can lose our faith through lack of exercise of that faith, lack of sustaining living water from the Word of God, failure to consume the bread of Life.
Yes, that is what the bible teaches. It is the one who has faith that endures to the end that is saved. All too many people get their fire insurance by "easy believism" that they are saved forever if they believe for a while. But God looks for those who believe or have faith in him to the end of this natural life, and it is only those who do, that are Sanctified. It is the names of only those who do that are found in the Book of Life. Those who buy life insurance then stop believing have their names blotted from the book of life before they reach the Judgment. It is appointed unto man once to die, then the judgement!
Is one who came to faith in the Christ, thus becoming a Christian, still a Christian if the one stops believing in the Christ? Not any more than one who joins a church, then subsequently leaves that church, remains a member of that church for all eternity. Not any more than one who was raised Muslim but leaves that religion upon becoming a believer in Christ, is counted for eternity as a muslim. What about former Christians that are now Muslim, are they still saved? Are they still Christian?
It is not religion that saves, it is individual belief or the lack thereof that determines eternal destiny. Salvation comes to those who's faith endures to the end of this natural life. Not to those who gain faith for a while then lose it before dying from this natural life. The latter describes those who have "fallen away". They had to have had the promise before they could lose it by falling away. But, you say, Jesus said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you". When one falls away It is not Jesus that fell away, He remains while those who once believed in Him suffer from heat, lack of water, lack of nutrition, choking out by the weeds (cares of life), etc. I agree that Christianity is not religion, it is life-style, lived by those who live in ever-sustained belief (Faith). But because we are mortal and NOT deity, we can lose our faith through lack of exercise of that faith, lack of sustaining living water from the Word of God, failure to consume the bread of Life.
You'll have to ask John who wrote down Jesus words what Jesus meant. What did Jesus mean with the parable of the sower, and the seed falling on various types of ground? What about the workman in the field who takes his hand from the plow and turns back, repents from working the field?
The truth is the principle of Salvation cannot hinge on one or two verses with the exception of John 3:16, because Jesus said the whosoever believeth (ongoing form of believe) in Him....
It is only those who are in the condition of faith in God (ongoing belief) when they depart this life that receive salvation (being spared from the second death).
It is not those who believe today but not tomorrow that are saved, cause there is this heavenly clerk that writes names in the book of life. Those who are in the state of believing in God (Jesus), have their names in the book of life. Those who are not in a state of believing in God but who once did, have had their names blotted out from the book of life.
I bet that sure is one tired clerk, and one messy book 
Who has ever 'beleived today but not tomorrow'?
The love of God is said to be shed abroad in our hearts in the face of Jesus; having this 'shed' in the heart, who does not believe it then later? Then, if it is shed in the heart, how are they renewed? Heb. 6 clearly teaches they cannot be.
Do the clerks keep a 'tentative' book maybe; you know, one they will only present to God just before the resurrection, that way there won't be any chance of losing any in the moments prior to this event
Who has ever 'beleived today but not tomorrow'?
The love of God is said to be shed abroad in our hearts in the face of Jesus; having this 'shed' in the heart, who does not believe it then later? Then, if it is shed in the heart, how are they renewed? Heb. 6 clearly teaches they cannot be.
Do the clerks keep a 'tentative' book maybe; you know, one they will only present to God just before the resurrection, that way there won't be any chance of losing any in the moments prior to this event
Yes, that is what the bible teaches. It is the one who has faith that endures to the end that is saved. All too many people get their fire insurance by "easy believism" that they are saved forever if they believe for a while. But God looks for those who believe or have faith in him to the end of this natural life, and it is only those who do, that are Sanctified. It is the names of only those who do that are found in the Book of Life. Those who buy life insurance then stop believing have their names blotted from the book of life before they reach the Judgment. It is appointed unto man once to die, then the judgement!
Is one who came to faith in the Christ, thus becoming a Christian, still a Christian if the one stops believing in the Christ? Not any more than one who joins a church, then subsequently leaves that church, remains a member of that church for all eternity. Not any more than one who was raised Muslim but leaves that religion upon becoming a believer in Christ, is counted for eternity as a muslim. What about former Christians that are now Muslim, are they still saved? Are they still Christian?
It is not religion that saves, it is individual belief or the lack thereof that determines eternal destiny. Salvation comes to those who's faith endures to the end of this natural life. Not to those who gain faith for a while then lose it before dying from this natural life. The latter describes those who have "fallen away". They had to have had the promise before they could lose it by falling away. But, you say, Jesus said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you". When one falls away It is not Jesus that fell away, He remains while those who once believed in Him suffer from heat, lack of water, lack of nutrition, choking out by the weeds (cares of life), etc. I agree that Christianity is not religion, it is life-style, lived by those who live in ever-sustained belief (Faith). But because we are mortal and NOT deity, we can lose our faith through lack of exercise of that faith, lack of sustaining living water from the Word of God, failure to consume the bread of Life. </font>[/QUOTE]Yelsew2 - We couldn't be further apart on this issue!
"Normal" scenario says that writing names in "the book" is what "clerks" do in accordance with a standing requirement established higher authority.
There are scriptures relative to names in the book of life and there are scriptures relative to being blotted from the book of life. Someone does the writing, someone does the blotting, you figure out the who and why! I did the study many years ago, it's your turn.