If I'm the Brandon you're supposedly talking to then you need some help. My questions were "who cares?" and "isn't there a reason they closed down the old c/a debate forum? You answered one of them sorta :laugh:
Regeneration
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by GordonSlocum, Jan 27, 2007.
Page 2 of 13
-
-
Hello GordonSlocum.
...the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace... Rom 8:6.
Regardless of the technicalities it is because of God that I am in Christ. 1 Cor 1:30.
john. -
-
Aren't you arminians wasting time asking silly questions? How many souls that Jesus wanted to saved have gone to hell against His will while you've been debating?
-
You're wasting time too, JD, the Lord is patiently waiting for you to go out and preach repentance to the elect. -
I wish I had time, but since I don't have time to look up the verses (like 1 John 5:1, John 3:5, James 1:18) I'll just surrender and admit that when I was the agent of my own birth. Satisfied now?
-
-
And what part of this passage allows for us to give birth to ourselves through the faith of the natural man?
10 But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them,] because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is [rightly] judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. -
-
We do not and cannot choose if and when we are physically born.
Can we choose if and when we are spiritually re-born?
Is this the crux of the whole debate/discussion? -
I don't count things that people say in anger or out of ignorance as personally offensive. And I hope I get the same couresty. I do get angry sometimes and say harsh things I don't mean. But sometimes I do mean them. Guess you're left with a guessing game as to when I mean it and when I don't. That's what makes it fun for me! :) -
-
-
Your Mom and Dad did not ask you if you wanted to be born.
Adam and Eve were not ask if they wanted to be created.
Adam and Eve were giving a choice to eat or not eat of the tree of good and evil.
We are given the choice to believe and be regenerated. -
MB,
I like some of your ideas. Regeneration is saved, for sure.
-
Andy
...
It sounds to me like God did some overriding of the human free will. This is a great section that shows God's work in regeneration, by taking a heathen, God-hating people, and distinctly telling them that He is going to restore them, and notice this, not because of THEIR sake, but because of His holy name's sake.Click to expand...
You will find many other examples of this same flawed application by Calvinists, especially in their use of Rom 9-11 which are spoken also of national and religious Israel -- Paul's "kinsmen according to the flesh" (9:3); "they [religious Israel] have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge." (10:2); I say, hath God cast away His people [national Israel]?" (11:1).
skypair -
Grasshopper said:I'm just an amatuer Calvinist, but I would think regeneration and salvation are the same thing.Click to expand...
skypair -
GordonSlocum said:Skypair and Brandon here is your answer
rebirth," "born again," "new creation," "new creature
OK So these words are in the NT and I can find them and they will back up your claim that Born Again is before Salvation and new creation is before salvation and new creature is before salvation.Click to expand...
skypair -
christianyouth, whatever, johnp,
christianyouth said:Well, the thing is as I stated in a different post entitled The Vague God - is God Ambigious, It is logically impossible for someone to generate faith. That is, one cannot convince themselves that Jesus was the Son of God, or that there is an inivisble creature running around in the attic, it is just not possible.
If Faith is brought by the Holy Spirit, then Calvinism is true. If Faith is a result of human free-will, then Calvinism is false.Click to expand...
Gal 3:22 -- "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."
Rom 3:22 -- "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
You have made one good point though -- "It is logically impossible for someone to generate faith." Calvinists assume 2 things: 1) That faith = belief and 2) that believing and choosing Christ is illogical, beyond the rational capability of any but the elect. This is why so many critics of Calvinism will say that the don't believe in "total depravity" -- they believe in "total inability," a charge frequently acerred by Calvinists themselves. :D
skypair -
J.D. said:Aren't you arminians wasting time asking silly questions? How many souls that Jesus wanted to saved have gone to hell against His will while you've been debating?Click to expand...
See, Calvinists say we can't "choose" Christ so it stands to reason that they assume it of those who join with their theology and they are only sanctifying the presumably "elect." :tear:
skypair
Page 2 of 13