I'm refusing to answer for several reasons:
1. You are refusing to answer my questions forcing me to provide an exegesis but not being willing to provide one of your own. No doubt for the purpose of being able to play offense without having to play defense. Good debate tactic, but no dice.
2. In my experience, you have a problem with defining and sticking the use of any given term. (i.e. ordain, decree, determine, permit, allow, etc) You tend to jump between different terms when pressed so as to cloud the matter. I prefer the terms God used to reveal himself, as He must have had a reason for selecting those terms and not others. So, lets both answer the question that this verse presents to us:
Did those detestable things enter his mind or not? Yes or No?
I've answered NO, what is your answer?
"Reprehensible!" is not an argument
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Jan 2, 2013.
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I can say "no" too.
No.
There.
See.
But what you want to do is always place the person you debate on the defensive by forcing him to answer your questions while refusing to answer his- particularly when it touches your view of God's omniscience. -
Now, can you explain how that aligns with your teaching that all things flow from the mind of God as the one who decrees all things that come to pass before time began? Thanks
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No you haven't.
You just reworded the verse.
That's not exegesis. -
Plus, by admitting that my statement is just a rewording of the verse, haven't you just validated that statement as being equally true? Do you agree that the verse means, "...he is perfectly Holy and sinless and would never come up with (originate) reprehensible ideas like molesting children, or the evil being spoken of here?" If so, just say so and then explain how that aligns with your 'systematic.'
Also, an exegesis includes 'interpretation,' thus a rewording of the text in order to reveal intent of the author and it's meaning would absolutely be within the confines of the exegetical process. -
No. By stating that all you did was reword the verse i am validating that you are being intentionally vague.
Grown men do not think they have made a point in a debate over a passage when they just reword it. -
We are done Luke. -
Luke2427 said: ↑It is too vague to agree with or disagree with.Click to expand...
You have not said what you think the verse means.Click to expand...
I think it is apparent that you think the verse means that God LITERALLY did not KNOW that they were going to do this thing.Click to expand...
Another way to say that is- "I'm taking my toys and going HOME!"Click to expand...Click to expand... -
Skandelon said: ↑So you believe God is too vague to agree or disagree with? HmmmClick to expand...
You know better.
Scripture requires exegesis, and you know it. Many verses require tons and tons of study to comprehend.
For you to act like I'm accusing God of something here for saying that verse requires intense exegesis is childish posturing and only an idiot would fall for it.
I guess you are banking that there are some very stupid people on baptistboard who will read this ridiculous comment of yours and side with you over it.
I'd be surprised if many of them are that stupid.
Yes I did, you just didn't like it because it doesn't address your finite linear worldviewClick to expand...
No, I think it literally means that this detestable thing didn't enter into his mind until they did it.Click to expand...
It originated with them, not God, but I still affirm God's infinite omniscience. I don't believe one cancels out the other as you do, because I don't attempt to force an infinite characteristic into a finite box.Click to expand...
It's ridiculous and if it is true then NOTHING is and discussion is silly because logic is meaningless. -
Luke2427 said: ↑Most people that are not Calvinists, I think, are not Calvinists, not because they cannot see it taught in the Scripture but because they do not like what they think Calvinism implies about God.Click to expand...
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Luke2427 said: ↑That's childish, Skan.
You know better.
Scripture requires exegesis, and you know it. Many verses require tons and tons of study to comprehend.
For you to act like I'm accusing God of something here for saying that verse requires intense exegesis is childish posturing and only an idiot would fall for it.
I guess you are banking that there are some very stupid people on baptistboard who will read this ridiculous comment of yours and side with you over it.
I'd be surprised if many of them are that stupid.
No you didn't.
What do you think these four words mean in that verse "enter into his mind"?
That's like saying "I think wet water is dry but I still affirm that wet water can never be dry."
It's ridiculous and if it is true then NOTHING is and discussion is silly because logic is meaningless.Click to expand...
Please especially note the bolded statements. -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite SupporterYeshua1 said: ↑because many want to keep real free will intact, so that I did 'something" to have God save me, and also many rebel against idea that God would be in absolute control, as that makes him a "monster", and us "puppets/robots!"Click to expand...
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite SupporterCrabtownboy said: ↑
I do not see Calvinism taught in scripture ... and I do see some aspects of Calvinism taught by the Gnostics and in the writings of Augustine. Remember Augustine was a Gnostic sympathizer and attendee of their services before he became a Christian. He, Augustine, says he did not have the self-discipline to be a member of an Agnostic group, but he did believe their tenets and he introduced some into his Christian theology and writings.Click to expand... -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite SupporterEarth said: ↑The earlier "monster"commentary voids any credibility with me in your grasp on Calvinism.Click to expand...
Do a bit of research on Augustine and Gnosticism. Calvin was a great admirer of Augustine. It is obvious that Calvin picked up and incorporated ideas from Augustine ... who got them from the Gnostics, especially from the Manichaeism gnostics.
Augustine claims he rejected Gnostic beliefs later in life, but they did not entirely disappear from his belief system.
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