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Featured Revelation 12 - a Verse by Verse, and even phrase by phrase study

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alofa Atu, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Revelation 12 - a Verse by Verse, and even phrase by phrase study

    Let's take a look at Revelation 12 and go verse by verse, phrase by phrase:

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    Verse 1

    Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    “a great wonder” – Truly God’s miracles are a sign of His glorious and beautiful character of love; see Deut. 3:24, 4:34, 6:22, 7:19, 26:8, 29:3; Jos. 24:17; Neh. 9:17; Job. 9:10; Psa. 136:4; Jer. 32:21; Dan. 4:3; Mat. 9:8, 15:31; Mar. 2:12; Luk. 5:26, 7:16, 13:13, 17:15, 23:47; Jhn. 6:2, 11:4, 13:31-32; Act. 2:19, 3:11-13, 4:21, 6:8, 11:18; Gal. 1:24; 2 Thes. 1:12; 1 Pet. 4:14, etc.

    “in heaven” – Truly a miracle of God that any person of ‘mankind’ is ‘in heaven’ at all because the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23), but through the grace, love and promise of God in Christ Jesus (Gen. 3:15,21), mankind was to be redeemed, and though it was given for all (Jhn. 3:16), only a remnant who believed, grasping the promise by living faith and not letting go, appropriating it to themselves, would be saved; see Mat. 6:21; Luk. 12:34; Phi. 3:20; Col. 3:1-3; Heb. 12:23, and (‘in heaven’, Canaan, the promised land, a symbol of the real promised land, Heavenly Canaan); see 1 Cor. 10:6,11; Gen. 17:8; Exo. 20:12; 1 Chr. 16:18; Psa. 105:11, etc.)

    “a woman” (faithful) – God’s people ((OT) Israel or (NT) Christians), flock, church, a body, bone of the man’s (Adam; Gen. 2:23; 1 Cor. 15:44-46) bone and flesh of His flesh, and the city (Mat. 12:10-11) in which they reside (New Jerusalem); see Jer. 6:2; Isa. 54:5, 61:10, 62:5 ; Act. 7:38; 1 Cor. 6:17; 2 Cor. 11:2; Gal. 4:26; Eph. 5:23-32; Rev. 19:7, 21:2-3,9; see also Jesus as the “bridegroom” – Mat. 9:15, 25:1,5-6,10; Mar. 2:19-20; Luk. 5:34-35; Jhn. 2:9, 3:29; Rev. 18:23; Jer. 7:34, 16:9, 25:10, 33:11; Joe. 2:16 and Song of Solomon (entire); see also (unfaithful) Jer. 3:14,20; Hos. 1:2, 2:2, etc.

    “clothed with” (not naked (a symbol of shame/sin; Gen 3:7-11; Isa. 47:3; Eze. 16:8; Hos. 2:9; Nah. 3:5; Rev. 3:18, for we are warned not to uncover our ‘Mother’s” (Gal. 4:26) nakedness in Lev. 18)) – The character [righteous or unrighteous, rich or poor, depending upon context, etc, and color also affects the character, like White is Purity/Righteousness, Blue is Law/Commandments, Red is Sin/Sacrifice; Purple is Royalty, Lambskin is Christ's Character or Righteousness, Goatskin is the symbol for sin, etc], see Gen. 3:7,21, 35:2; Exo. 28:2,4; Ecc. 9:8; Isa. 52:1, 59:6,17, 61:3,10, 63:2-3, 64:6; Eze. 16:16; Joe. 2:13; Zec. 3:3-5; Gal. 3:27; Tit. 2:10; Rev. 3:4,17, 16:15 [compare to the Garden of Gethsemane, when the disciples forsook Jesus, Mar. 14:51-52], 19:14

    “the sun” – The Great Light in the 2nd Heaven, the day star, the morning star, which gives light, warmth, being glorious, and represents God, even Jesus Christ, the Everlasting Gospel and the New Testament/Covenant; see Gen. 1:15-19; Num. 24:17; Psa. 72:17, 84:11, 89:36; Ecc. 11:7; Son. 6:10; Isa. 2:5, 5:20, 8:20, 30:6, 60:1,3,19-20; Jer. 31:35; Mic. 3:6; Mal. 4:2; Mat. 4:16, 13:43, 17:2; Luk. 1:79; Jhn. 1:4-9, 3:21, 8:12, 9:5, 12:35-36,46; Act. 9:3; 2 Cor. 4:4-6; Eph. 5:13-14; 2 Pet. 1:19; 1 Jhn. 2:8; Rev. 1:16, 2:28, 10:1, 21:11,23, 22:5,16.

    “the moon” – The lesser light, ruling the night, being for “signs”, “seasons”, which reflects the light of the Sun, reflecting the glory of God (like unto the Sea of Glass, Rev. 4:6, 15:2), and is also representative of the Old Testament, along with the Shadows/Types, being a faithful witness, likened unto a mother of Israel, and is ‘a rock’; see Gen. 1:15-19, 37:9; Exo. 33:21; Deut. 33:14; Job. 31:26; Psa. 81:3, 89:37, 121:6; Son. 6:10; Isa. 8:18, 30:26, 60:19; Eze. 46:4; Luk. 6:48, 24:27; Act. 2:43, 5:12, 8:13, 14:3; Rom. 15:19; 1 Cor. 10:11; 2 Cor. 12:12; Col. 2:16-17; Heb. 2:4

    “under her feet” – The way in which a person walks, either in the light or in darkness, in the truth or in error, walking with God or away from God, walking in His ways or the ways of another, and this “woman” is seen standing upon the firm “moon”, the very word of God, even the ‘rock’ Christ Jesus, the “faithful witness”, the foundation of the Old Testament which points forward using symbols, shadows and types unto Christ Jesus the reality; see Gen. 5:22,24, 6:9, 17:1; Exo. 16:14, 18:20, 32:8; Lev. 18:3-4, 20:23, 26:3,21; Deut. 5:33, 8:6,19, 10:12, 11:22,28, 13:4-5, 19:9; 2 Sam. 22:37; 1 Ki. 8:25, 15:3, 16:26; 2 Chr. 6:16; Job. 31:7; Psa. 18:36, 73:2, 86:11, 115:7, 119:3,45; Pro. 21:16; Luk. 6:48; Jhn. 8:12, 11:9-10, 12:35; Act. 14:16, 21:21; 1 Cor. 3:11; 2 Tim. 2:19.

    “upon her head” – Leadership or Rulership, Authority and also in Subjection, as Christ Jesus is “head” of the “body” the Church, and the Father is the Head of Christ or as a symbol of reward, as in favour (Gen. 48:17; Job. 29:3; Psa. 133:2) or disfavour (Gen. 40:17; 2 Sam. 1:16; 1 Ki. 2:33,37, 8:32; 2 Chr. 6:23; Neh. 4:4; Est. 9:25; Psa. 7:16; Jer. 2:37, 23:19, 30:23; Eze. 9:10, 16:43, 33:4; Joe. 3:4,7; Amo. 8:10; Oba. 1:15) from God; see Exo. 29:26; 1 Chr. 29:11; Est. 2:17, 6:8; Pro. 10:6, 11:26; Isa. 51:11, 59:17; Eze. 16:12; Zec. 3:5; Mat. 27:29; 1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 4:15, 5:23; Col. 1:18, 2:10; Rev. 14:14, 19:12.

    “a crown” – Rulership, leadership, authority, dominion, kings, emperors, queens, heads of state, exalted, royalty, victorious, knowledge of wisdom; see Lev. 21:22; Est. 2:17; Job. 19:19; Isa. 28:5, 62:3; Psa. 8:5; Pro. 4:9, 12:4, 14:18; Son. 3:11; Lam. 5:16; Eze. 21:26; Mat. 27:29; 2 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 2:9.

    “of 12” – Service, Victory over self (Israel; OT – 12 patriarchs & NT – 12 disciples/apostles; prince or overcomer with God) and always being about the Father’s business, rulership (Est. 9:1; as the 12 hours in the day/night; Jhn. 11:9), purification (Est. 2:12), and 6 + 6 were the two stacks of the shewbread, a place for the Father and Son (Lev. 24:5-6); see: Gen. 14:4, 42:13; 1 Ki. 4:7, 18:31; 1 Chr. 25:6,9-31; 2 Chr. 34:3; Neh. 5:14; Eze. 47:12; Mat. 10:5-10; Mar. 3:14-15, 9:35; Luk. 2:42,49, 9:1-2; Jhn. 18:36; Act. 26:7; Jam. 1:1; Rev. 7:3,4-8, 22:2.

    “stars” – (12 stars, are a united constellation, a unifed unit) the re-created peoples (multitudes) of God, also Angels, messengers as shining lights to the world which shone in the night, exalted in the heavens; for signs; see Gen. 1:16, 15:5, 22:17, 26:4, 37:9; Exo. 32:13; Deut. 1:10, 10:22, 28:62; Judg. 5:20; 1 Chr. 27:23; Neh. 4:21, 9:23; Job. 3:9, 9:9, 22:12, 38:7,31; Psa. 8:3, 136:9, 147:4, 148:3; Isa. 13:10, 14:13; Jer. 31:35; Dan. 10:8, 12:3; Joe. 2:10, 3:15; Amo. 5:8,26; Oba. 1:4; Mat. 2:2,7,9-10; Luk. 21:25; Jhn. 1:8, 5:35; Act. 7:43; 1 Cor. 15:41; Heb. 11:12; Jud. 1:13; Rev. 1:16,20, 2:1, 3:1, 8:10,12, 9:1, 12:4,7,8,9.

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  2. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Verse 2:

    Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

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    “she being with child” – Pregnant with the Messiah/Christ, the field having received the ‘seed’ (as of a mustard seed) of faith (Mat. 13:31, 17:20; Mar. 4:31; Luk. 13:19. 17:6), who when given (new) ‘birth’ (character of Christ formed within) to, bearing ‘fruit’ (Exo. 21:22; Gen. 1:11-12; 2 Ki. 19:30; Isa. 37:31; Eze. 17:8,23; Luk. 13:9; Jhn. 15:4), would be ‘delivered’, see Gen. 3:15, 16:11, 19:36, 38:24-25; 1 Sam. 4:19; 2 Sam. 11:5; Ecc. 11:5; Isa. 26:17-18, 54:1, 66:7-8; Mic. 5:3; Mat. 1:18,23, 24:19; Mar. 13:17; Luk. 21:23; Gal. 4:27; Rev. 12:17. – pre A.D., being B.C. (Did you know that a woman ‘sheds blood’ (works, filthy rags) until she receives ‘the seed’ (of Faith) – Mat. 9:20-22; Mar. 5:25-34; Luk. 8:43-48?)

    “cried” – A loud voice, crying (as John the Baptist), even of the other prophets (Zec. 7:7; Rom. 9:27); one of pain, and also of desiring for the Desire of all nations (Jesus; Hag. 2:7); see Psa. 69:3; Mat. 3:3, 9:27, 20:30-31, 21:9,15; Mar. 1:3, 9:24, 10:47-48, 11:9; Luk. 3:4, 4:41, 18:39; Jhn. 1:15,23; Rom. 8:15; Gal. 4:6. The people ‘cried’ unto the LORD, in mercy, He delivered them (2 Chr. 32:20; Neh. 9:27-28; Psa. 3:4, 18:6, 22:5, 30:8, 107:6,13, etc).

    “travailing in birth” – The Church of God (Act. 7:38), the peoples Israel, were going through great struggles and sorrow (Ecc. 1:13, 2:23,26, 3:10, 4:4,6,8, 5:14) for a long time. They had been assaulted by Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Medo-Persians, Greecians and then they were again subjugated by the Roman Empire, and the Pharisees and Saduccees and even the High Priest were more political than anything else, and were corrupt (Luk. 3:1-2). The Prophecies of the Messiah were largely confused by the people (Mar. 12:24), though there were some faithful which were looking and understood somewhat (wisemen of the east, shepherds, Simeon, Anna a prophetess, etc). There had been many uprisings and revolts against the oppressions, but each time ending in failure (Dan. 11:14; Act. 5:36-37, 21:38). The time prophecies of Daniel (Dan. 9:20-27), upon which all the prophecies of the first coming/advent (Mat. 11:13; Luk. 16:16) of Christ were about to culminate in those years; see Gen. 35:16, 38:27-28; Exo. 18:8; Num. 20:14; 1 Sam. 4:19; Job. 15:20; Psa. 7:14, 48:5-6; Isa. 13:8, 21:3, 23:4, 26:17-18, 42:14, 53:11; Jer. 4:31, 6:24, 13:21, 22:23, 30:6, 31:8, 49:24, 50:43; Hos. 13:13; Mic. 4:9-10, 5:3; Luk. 2:11; Jhn. 16:21; Rom. 8:22; Gal. 4:19,27; Col. 1:27; 1 Thes. 2:9, 5:3; 2 Thes. 3:8.

    “pained” – Struggling, see Psa. 25:18; Jer. 4:19; Mar. 6:48.

    “to be delivered” – To give birth (to Jesus Christ, and/or His character, thus saved from sin); see 2 Ki. 19:3; Job. 5:19, 6:23, 33:24,28, 36:15; Psa. 6:4, 7:1, 18:2; Pro. 11:21; Isa. 26:17-18, 37:3, 61:1, 66:9; Mat. 6:13; Luk. 4:18, 11:4; Jhn. 16:21; Rom. 11:26; 1 Tim. 2:15.

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  3. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Verse 3:

    Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

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    “And there appeared another wonder in heaven” – (‘in heaven’, Canaan, the promised land, a symbol of the real promised land, Heavenly Canaan); see 1 Cor. 10:6,11; Gen. 17:8; Exo. 20:12; 1 Chr. 16:18; Psa. 105:11, etc.); and what is amazing is that the Devil seeks to counterfeit everything of God; see Deut. 13:1-2; Mat. 24:24; Luk. 21:11; Rev. 13:13, 16:14; and satan at this time (pre A.D. 31, pre-Cross), still had access to Heaven (literally, for when Adam , the representative & steward of this world (Psa. 8:5; Heb. 2:9), sinned, he gave dominion over to satan; Psa. 94:20; Isa. 14:13; Luk. 4:6; Jhn. 12:31, 14:30; Eph. 2:2; 2 Cor. 4:4; Rev. 2:13, 13:2), see Job. 1:6-12, 2:1-7; 1 Ki. 22:19-32; 2 Chr. 18:18-22; Rev. 12:10.

    “a great red dragon” – (a fiery serpent, a beast; Isa. 13:22, 30:6, 43:20); The devil and Pagan Rome (a terrible dreadful Beast, which is a political body, or nation-state, kingdom (Gen. 49:9; Isa. 27:1, 46:11; Jer. 4:7, 5:6, 12:8, 25:38, 49:19, 50:44; Eze. 17:3,7, 32:2; Dan. 7:7,17,19,23, 8:20,21; Joe. 1:6; Mic. 5:8; Rev. 13:1,2,3,7,11,12, 17:3,7,8,11,12, etc.), which symbol was used of the Roman cavalry units on their standards/flags, ‘draco’) - Draco (military standard) - Wikipedia & Dacian Draco - Wikipedia ); see Gen. 3:1; Num. 21:6-9; Psa. 91:13; Isa. 1:18; Jer. 10:22, 46:22, 51:34; Mat. 23:33; Rev. 12:4,9, 13:2,4, 20:2.

    “having seven heads” – Chronological in time: Babylon (Lion, 1 Head), Medo-Persia (Bear, 1 Head), Greece (Leopard, 4 Heads), Pagan Rome (Dreadful & Terrible Beast, 1 Head) = 7 Heads, bring us down to the time of Pagan Rome; see Dan. 7:3-8,17,19,23.

    “and ten horns” – Chronological in time: The Ten Horns came later as Pagan Rome began to be divided and broken in pieces into individual nation-states; see Dan. 2:40, 7:7-8,20,24, 11:20; Psa. 72:4; “ten” is also the symbol of the ‘whole’ (wholly divided); see Ecc. 12:13-14, etc.

    “and seven crowns” – (These crowns are not on the horns, which were not yet ruling individually, for Pagan Rome was not yet divided, but were upon the Heads, as Pagan Rome was ruling, as it conquered the territory of the previous beasts), A crown, or royal diadem, is a symbol of rulership, judgment and glory and of the leading city, or capitol, of the nation (Isa. 7:8-9, 23:8), or of a king; see Exo. 39:30; Lev. 8:9; 2 Sam. 1:10, 12:30; 2 Ki. 11:12; 1 Chr. 20:2; 2 Chr. 23:11; Est. 1:11, 2:17, 6:8, 8:15; Job. 19:9, 29:14; Psa. 8:5; Isa. 28:5, 62:3; Jer. 13:18; Eze. 21:26; Rev. 13:1, 19:12.

    “upon his heads” – That which rules a body, such as a city (capitol) over a nation, a King to a Kingdom, or Husband to Wife, or Christ to the Church; and it also deals with the heart or mind (Isa. 1:5); see Deut. 28:13,44; Judg. 10:18; 1 Chr. 29:11; Psa. 18:43; Isa. 1:6, 7:8-9, 23:8; Jer. 22:6; Eze. 16:12; Dan. 2:32,38; Hos. 1:11; Jhn. 20:12; 1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 1:22, 4:15, 5:23; Col. 1:8, 2:10,19.

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  4. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    One problem......which will debunk all you post John is clear the Revelation he received was about what is soon to come to pass. Meaning future not what was OBVIOUSLY happening at present. The sign APPEARED in the Heavens in his revealing. That would be a sign in God's celestial time piece in this case the celestial part of heaven.
    The prologue speaks as to what will be (future therefore) not present.
    Rev.1:1
    Prologue
    1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw. This is the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.…

    The persecution of the Christians was going on BEFORE John received the Revelation of Christ. It is PROPHECY and not a recap of what was already unfolding. It speaks to future from an eternal stance. When speaking of shortly that is from God's perspective and is relative. But no doubt was about what is to come not what was happening which was fulfilling many other prophecies written before what John received at the time received.
     
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  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Verse 4:

    Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

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    “And his tail” – The prophet that teaches lies (Jhn. 8:44; 1 Ki. 22:22-23; 2 Chr. 18:21-22), and that which is last on a body (Deut. 28:13,44), also likened unto the small stick or ‘rush’ (Isa. 19:15; Mal. 4:1), and ‘firebrands’ (that which is burning with smoke and fire (Amo. 4:11; Isa. 50:10-11); see Judg. 15:4; Isa. 7:4; one who ‘deceives’ Pro. 26:18-19); see Isa. 9:14-15; Eze. 28:18.

    “drew” – To lead by taking away, to separate from another; see Isa. 5:18; Act. 5:37, 20:30; Luk. 22:47; Heb. 10:38-39. Lucifer drew with lies, but God draws with love and truth, Son. 1:4; Hos. 11:4; Jhn. 6:44, 12:32; Heb. 7:19; Jam. 4:8.

    “the third part of” – Indicates that there are 3 parts, or 3/3rd’s; see 2 Sam. 18:2; 2 Ki. 11:5-6; 2 Chr. 23:4-5; Eze. 5:1-3,12; Zec. 13:8-9; Rev. 8:7-12, 9:15,18. God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the true Light (Jhn. 1:9; 1 Jhn. 1:5; Rev. 21:23), even Christ the Morning Star (Rev. 2:28, 22:16), the Day Star (2 Pet. 1:19), while the angelic hosts became divided, there are now holy and unholy angels, all of whom are called stars (some fallen); see Job. 38:7; Psa. 147:4, 148:2-3; Isa. 14:13; Dan. 12:3; Mat. 2:2,7,9-10, 22:30; Mar. 12:25; 1 Cor. 15:39-44.

    “the stars of heaven” – Angels and men (and both apply here); see Gen. 22:17, 26:4, 37:9; Exo. 32:13; Num. 24:17; Deut. 1:10, 10:22, 28:62; Judg. 5:20; 1 Chr. 27:23; Neh. 9:23; Job. 25:5, 38:7; 147:4, 148:2-3; Isa. 14:13; Dan. 8:10, 12:3; Amo. 5:26; Mat. 2:2,7,9-10, 22:30; Mar. 12:25; 1 Cor. 15:39-44; Heb. 11:12; Jud. 1:13; Rev. 1:16,20, 2:1, 3:1, 12:4,7-9.

    “and did cast them to the earth” – to lower or bring down from an exalted position (such as Heaven, righteousness, holiness, godliness), to debase, to profane, make carnal, earthly; see Exo. 4:3; 2 Sam. 8:2; 2 Chr. 25:8; Job. 41:9; Psa. 36:12, 74:7, 89:44, 143:3, 147:6; Pro. 7:26; Isa. 14:12, 25:12, 26:5, 28:1-4, 29:4, 47:1; Lam. 2:1; Eze. 13:14, 19:12, 26:11, 28:17, 31:16; Dan. 8:7-12; Oba. 1:3; Luk. 13:7; Rev. 12:9,13.

    “and the dragon stood before the woman” – The devil, understanding prophecy, prepared himself to strike at the life of the Messiah/Christ as soon as possible, and used Herod, a client of Pagan Rome, to do this, and even does this to each individual who begins to manifest the birth of Christ Jesus within; see Mat. 2:1-18; Jer. 4:31, 31:15.

    “which was ready to be delivered” – Time prophecy was come, “the time is at hand”; see Isa. 7:14, 9:6; Mat. 4:17; Mar. 1:15; Luk. 1:35, 2:11; Jhn. 1:14; Rom. 11:26.

    “for to devour” – To swallow with the mouth (full of teeth, weapons) and take into possession of, to kill physically (with sword, or beast, etc) or spiritually; see Gen. 37:20,33; Lev. 10:11; Pro. 30:14; Dan. 7:7,19,23; Mal. 3:11; 1 Pet. 5:8.

    “her child” – The promised Messiah/Christ (and thus all in Him); see Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14, 9:6; Luk. 1:35, 2:11; Gal. 3:29.

    “as soon as it was born” – The devil was poised, as a coiled serpent, ready to strike the deadly blow (through fang or poison), even as it was in the days of Moses; see Exo. 1:15-22, 2:1-10; Mat. 2:1-18.

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  6. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Revelation is built upon the pattern, set in Revelation 1:

    Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

    [1] 'hast seen' (past)
    [2] 'things which are' (present)
    [3] 'things which shall be hereafter' (future)

    For Revelation is 'historic'.

    Rev_4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

    [1] 'which was' (past)
    [2] 'and is' (present)
    [3] 'and is to come' (future)

    Again:

    Rev_17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    [1] 'was' (past)
    [2] 'is' (present)
    [3] 'shall' (future)

    Again:

    Rev_17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    [1] 'was' (past)
    [2] 'is' (present)
    [3] 'goeth' (future)

    Each in their proper contexts. There are numerous ways to show this, especially in connection with Daniel, see:
    Revelation 13:1-10 is tied, by language and time, to Daniel 7:2-8,17,19-21,23-25.

    Daniel, looking in time from his present:

    saw
    (vision/dream) - Daniel 7:1,2,5,6,7,9,11,13,21

    Sea - Daniel 7:2,3

    1,260 - Daniel 7:25

    war - Daniel 7:21

    saints - Daniel 7:18,21,22,25,27

    books - Daniel 7:10

    angels - Daniel 7:10,13,16

    God (Ancient of days; Father) - Daniel 7:9,13,18,22,25,27

    Son of man (Jesus; Lamb) - Daniel 7:13,14

    peoples, nations, languages - Daniel 7:14,23,27

    worship (times and laws of God) - Daniel 7:25

    Lion - Daniel 7:4

    Bear - Daniel 7:5

    Leopard - Daniel 7:6

    a Dreadful terrible beast - Daniel 7:7-8

    seven heads [1 Lion, 1 Bear, 4 Leopard, 1 Beast] - Daniel 7:4-8,11,12,17,19,23

    ten horns - Daniel 7:7-8,20,24

    kingdom (kings have kingdoms, dominions, thrones, and wear crowns) - Daniel 7:4,5,6,7,8,9,12,14,17,18,22,23,24,26,27

    a mouth speaking great things, the great words, mouth that spake very great things, speak great words against the most High - Daniel 7:8,11,20,25

    little horn (with the mouth (and eyes of man, thus head) speaking and warring) - Daniel 7:8,11,20,21,24,25

    killed - Daniel 7:11,26

    John, looking in time from his present (which also covers the past):

    saw (vison/dream) - Revelation 13:1,2,3

    Sea - Revelation 13:1

    1,260 - Revelation 13:5

    war - Revelation 13:4,7

    saints - Revelation 13:6,7,10

    book - Revelation 13:8

    angels - Revelation 13:7

    God - Revelation 13:6

    Lamb (Jesus) - Revelation 13:8

    peoples, nations, languages - Revelation 13:3,4,7,8

    worship (times and laws of God) - Revelation 13:4,8

    a beast - Revelation 13:1,2,3,4

    body of a leopard - Revelation 13:2

    feet of a bear - Revelation 13:2

    mouth of a lion - Revelation 13:2

    seven heads - Revelation 13:1

    ten horns - Revelation 13:1

    kingdom (kings have kingdoms, dominions, thrones, and wear crowns) - Revelation 13:1,2,7

    mouth speaking great things and blasphemies - Revelation 13:1,5,6

    one of its heads (with the mouth (being a head, has eyes) speaking and warring) - Revelation 13:3,5,6,7

    killed - Revelation 13:10

    The very language and structure of Revelation is built upon the foundation of the Sanctuary of God, Psalms 77:13, in the form of the 7 branch candlestick and is quite unbreakable in its order, see - Link
     
  7. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    No one is questioning the Candle stick of God. I am questioning you only and your interpretation.
     
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  8. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    I do not believe in '[my] interpretation', for that would be 'private interpretation' according to Peter, in 1 Peter 1:20, for God interprets His own word, Genesis 40:8.

    Again, please see Rev. 1:19, and consider that the events of Revelation 12:1-4, refer to the time period of the 'woman' pregnant, having not yet given birth to Christ Jesus, and thus refers to the time period leading up to that even in vs 5a. and to his ascension, vs 5b.

    The 'child' is Jesus Christ:

    “Michael” - Revelation 12:7

    “Lamb” - Revelation 12:11

    “child” - Revelation 12:2,4,5

    “man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron” - Revelation 12:5,13

    “seed” - Revelation 12:17

    “it” - Revelation 12:4

    “Jesus” [even the “testimony” of] - Revelation 12:17

    “Christ” - Revelation 12:10,17

    “his” [angels] – Revelation 12:7

    Compare also:

    “caught up unto God, and to his throne.” - Revelation 12:5

    “rule all” - Revelation 12:5

    For the structure of Revelation 12 is also unbreakable:

    Notice the chiastic structure.

    [A1] Revelation 12:1-5 = Woman, Child and Dragon

    [B1] Revelation 12:6 = Woman in Wilderness for 1,260 days [years]

    [C1] Revelation 12:7-9 = War between Michael and Satan in Heaven

    [D1] Revelation 12:10 = Cross, Power of Christ, His Victory

    [D2] Revelation 12:11 = Lamb, Blood of Christ, Their [overcoming saints] Victory in Him​

    [C2]
    Revelation 12:12 = Dragon permanently cast down to Earth fights against Jesus' body​

    [B2]
    Revelation 12:13-16 = Woman in Wilderness, for a time, and times, and half a time [aka, 3 1/2 times or 1,260 days [years]]​

    [A2] Revelation 12:17 = Woman, her Seed and Dragon

    To teach anything other than that, as per the identified symbols as given already from scripture, is to do an injustice to the text itself.

    As for the hidden and lurking 'mailmandan', he is presently beyond listening to anything I have to say. I do not spend time on that any more.
     
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel New Member

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    Thanks for this although the scriptures speak for themselves and no pictures are needed. This is the differnce between personal private interpretation and God's word interpreting itself. Let God's Word speak. Our words do not really matter. The deceiver of souls is always lurking and working through those who are his. Forgive them for they know not what they do...
     
    #9 3rdAngel, Aug 15, 2019
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  10. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Verse 5:

    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

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    “And she brought forth” – By promise of God, through Faith in the promise, Christ Jesus was born of a virgin, wrought by the Holy Ghost, as prophecy given of God foretold (and also includes all those who are born again, in Him, and He in them); see Isa. 9:6; Jhn. 1:13, 3:3,5; 1 Pet. 1:23; 1 Jhn. 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18.

    •“a man child” – Christ Jesus, the “holy child” (Mat. 1:18; Act. 4:27,30), the “babe” (Luk. 2:12,16), the second Adam, the Last Adam, the true Man, even the Son of Man (Pilate said: “Behold the Man!”, John the Baptist said: “Behold the Lamb!”) – Psa. 40:7-8; Mat. 4:4, 8:20, 16:13, 17:9,22, 19:28, 26:64; Mar. 14:62; Luk. 2:21,27,43, 4:4, 22:48; Jhn. 6:53, 8:28, 9:11, 12:23,34, 13:31, 19:5; Act. 2:22, 13:23; Rom. 5:15,17; 1 Cor. 15:22-23,45-47; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6:11; 2 Tim. 3:17; Heb. 10:5-9; Jesus also said that a man, must become as a ‘child’ (and He set the example, setting the ‘bar’, humbling Himself; Phil. 2:1-11); see Mat. 18:4; Mar. 10:15; Luk. 18:17.

    •“who was to rule all nations” – (rule = G4165, ποιμαινειν) To be governor, guardian over the sheep as a Shepherd in caring and tending (Psa. 78:71-72; Isa. 40:11; Jer. 23:4-6; Eze. 34:17,20,22-25, 37:24-26; Mat. 2:6, 25:32-33; Luk. 17:7; Jhn. 21:16; Act. 20:28; 1 Cor. 9:7; 1 Pet. 2:25, 5:2; Jud. 1:12; Rev. 2:27, 7:17, 12:5, 19:15); see Gen. 49:10; Num. 24:19; 1 Chr. 5:2; Psa. 2:6,9-10; Isa. 9:6-7; Mat. 28:18; Eph. 1:22; Col. 1:18; Rev. 2:26-27, 11:15, 19:15.

    “with a rod of iron” – The Rod (King’s Sceptre) of the Shepherd, the ruling and corrector, judge, rod of inheritance, separator of chaff from wheat, voice of the LORD, that which is used to feed with, head over the house; see Gen. 49:10; Exo. 4:17; Lev. 27:32; Num. 17:3, 24:17; 2 Sam. 7:14, 23:21; 1 Chr. 11:23; Job. 9:34, 37:13; Psa. 23:4, 45:6; 74:2, 89:32, 110:2; Pro. 10:13, 13:24, 22:15, 23:13-14, 26:3, 29:15; Isa. 10:24, 11:1,4, 14:5,29, 28:27, 30:31; Jer. 10:16, 51:19; Lam. 3:1; Eze. 19:11,14, 20:37, 21:10,13; Amo. 1:5,8; Mic. 5:1, 7:14; Zec. 10:11; and a ‘rod’ is also a ‘tribe’ or people group (H7626), such as ‘Israel’ (Natural or Spiritual), see Gen. 49:16; Deut. 29:8; Jos. 13:6-7, 23:4; Psa. 78:55; Pro. 27:17; Isa. 10:4-5,15, 49:6; Jer. 1:18; Eze. 37:19; and "iron" is that which breaks in pieces all others; symbol of strength, even of defense (walls of iron, etc), see Lev. 26:19; Job. 28:2, 40:18; Pro. 27:17; Jer. 15:12; Dan. 2:40, and thus a “rod of iron”, see Num. 35:16; Psa. 2:9; Isa. 11:4; Rev. 2:27, 12:5, 19:15.

    “and her child was caught up unto God” – Christ Jesus ascended to His Father in the 3rd Heaven (this the second time, according to typology (Num. 7:1; Heb. 9:18-21), the first (Jhn. 20:17) was right after His Resurrection (Mat. 28:9; Psa. 61:5, 116:14,18), the second time was 40 days later, 10 days before Pentecost, the 50th Day (Act. 1:3, etc), just before the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the Head (Christ Jesus) in Heaven, that Holy Oil (symbol of the Holy Spirit) running down unto the Body (the church) on earth which was then in Unity of spirit and in truth; Lev. 8:12; Psa. 24:1-10, 68:18, 133:1-3; Joe. 2:28-29; Mar. 16:19; Luk. 24:51; Jhn. 14:3; Act. 1:3,9-11, 2:2-4,33; Eph. 4:8; Heb. 4:14,16, 6:19-20; Rev. 5:6) into Heaven from the Mount of Olives after His Death and Resurrection; see also Eze. 28:13, 31:8-9, 36:35; Joe. 2:3; Luk. 23:43; 2 Cor. 12:2,4; Eph. 4:9-10; 1 Thes. 4:17; Rev. 2:7.

    “and to his throne” – The Throne of the Father (Rev. 3:21), as moved from the Most Holy Place to the Holy Place in the Heavenly Sanctuary, which was being represented by the ‘Table of Shewbread’ (The Table in the Sanctuary is on the Right side, which is the North Side. Exo. 26:35, 40:22; Isa. 14:13; Psa. 75:6; and it had a “a crown of gold” – Exo. 25:24; 2 places (Father & Son) – Lev. 24:5-7; “bread” – Deut. 8:3; Mat. 4:4; Luk. 4:4; Jhn. 6:57, 14:24. “right hand”. God's Throne is movable, see Ezekiel, wheels, etc. God the Father and Throne began in the Most Holy Place, and moved to meet Jesus in the Holy Place in Revelation 4. In Revelation 3, they moved into the Most Holy Place. Notice the words, “set” and “sat”.); see Rev. 4:2-6, 5:1-14; 1 Ki. 22:19; 2 Chr. 18:18; Psa. 11:4; Mat. 5:34, 23:22; Act. 7:49; Rev. 16:17, 20:11.

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    #10 Alofa Atu, Aug 15, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  11. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    The scriptures do indeed speak for themselves and so those references are given for any who would read with as little of my words as possible (just to give a general summation of the scriptures provided at each point), and the pictures are for those who can't be bothered to read their Bible, for this generation has a general tendency to say 'TL;DR', Wall o Text.

    Thank you for the positive and constructive comment.
     
  12. OfLivingWaters

    OfLivingWaters Active Member

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    Personally, I do find the pictures quite exciting! But the fireworks do not drown out what you are saying, which is a lot of noise. Since you want to have dialogue concerning what you posted, I will ask questions in increments. I am interested though, is this your OWN Alofa Atu, interpretation or is this from a church you belong to? I know you believe it is Holy Spirit inspired, but really is this from your church or you according to what you believe is from the Holy Spirit?
     
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  13. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    I am saddened that you think it is a lot of 'fireworks' (yet the Holy Ghost is truly Fire from Heaven, and works miracles among men). Interpretation belongeth unto God, Genesis 40:8, not to me or to any church. It is as it is written in His word. All the references in that word are given. Pray, upon your knees unto God, in humility and sincerity, asking for truth, and then follow all (not some) of the references given. One phrase at a time.

    Every reference the Holy Ghost led me to in the word of God, just as Jesus promised He would (John 16:13, 17:17).
     
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  14. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Verse 6:

    Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

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    “and the woman fled” – Run or flee for fear, from persecution, escape to save the life as Elijah did in the days of Jezebel (1 Ki. 19:3-8; Pro. 21:9,19, 25:24) or as Moses unto a wilderness with 7 sisters (Exo. 2:11-22), see 2 Sam. 15:14; 2 Ki. 9:3; Jer. 6:1, 48:6,9; Amo. 7:12-13; Mat. 2:13, 10:23, 24:26; Mar. 13:14; Luk. 21:21; Jhn. 10:5; Act. 7:29, 8:1,4-5,25,40, 9:2, 14:6, etc.; Heb. 11:34; Rev. 12:14.

    “into the wilderness” – A place of little waters, or population, a place of desolation, obscurity; see Gen. 1:9-10; Psa. 63:1, 107:33; Pro. 21:19; Isa. 14:17, 41:18; Jer. 50:12-13, 51:43; Eze. 19:13; Hos. 2:3,14, 13:5; Zep. 2:13; Mat. 15:33; Mar. 8:4; Luk. 5:16; Jhn. 11:54; 2 Cor. 11:26; Rev. 12:6,14,16; Rev. 12:6,14, 17:3; (see also Moses, Exo. 16:1-3,10,14; Psa. 68:7, 78:15,17,19,40,52, 95:8, 102:6, 106:14,26, 107:4, 136:16; Jhn. 3:14, 6:49; Act. 7:30,36,38,42,44, 13:18; 1 Cor. 10:5; Heb. 3:8,17 ); the opposite of which is waters, a place of dense population and many cities; see Gen. 1:10; Psa. 65:7, 107:35; Isa. 17:12-13; Jer. 51:42; Rev. 13:1, 17:15.

    “where she hath a place prepared of God” – The wilderness experience; see Psa. 68:10; Isa. 64:4; Jon. 4:6,8; 1 Cor. 2:9; Heb. 11:16; see also (Jesus) Mat. 4:1; Mar. 1:12-13; Luk. 4:1; Jhn. 14:1-18; (John the Baptist) Mat. 3:1,3, 11:7; Mar. 1:3-4 Luk. 3:2,4, 7:24; Jhn. 1:23.

    “that they should feed her there” – Fed of God, through His word, and by the people dwelling in the ‘wilderness’; see Exo. 16:32; Deut. 8:3; Psa. 81:16; Hos. 11:4; Joe. 2:26; Mat. 4:4, 6:26, 25:37; Luk. 4:4, 12:24; Jhn. 6:57; 1 Cor. 10:1-5,11; Rev. 12:14 (“nourished”, see also Act. 12:20; Jam. 5:5; “brought up”, Luk. 4:16).

    “a thousand two hundred and threescore days” – A section of 2,300 years (Dan. 8:13-14,26; Rev. 9:13-15), which is 1,260 years (a day for a year*; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6), from A.D. 538 unto A.D. 1798: “until a time and times and the dividing of time”, Dan. 7:25; “for a time, times, and an half”, Dan. 12:7; “forty and two months”, Rev. 11:2; “a thousand two hundred and threescore days”, Rev. 11:3; “a thousand two hundred and threescore days”, Rev. 12:6; “for a time, and times, and half a time”, Rev. 12:14; “forty and two months”, Rev. 13:5; see also, “many days”, Dan. 11:33; see also “Gentiles”, Rev. 11:2; “until the times of the Gentiles”, Luk. 21:24; see also, “Who is this that cometh out of the wilderness”, Son. 3:6, 8:5.

    20 reasons to use the day/year principle here - Link

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  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel New Member

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    As posted earlier I think this is the difference between private interpretation of the scriptures and letting God's word interpret itself. Thank you for sharing these scriptures. I sincerely believe that God's New Covenant promise to His people is that he wants to be our teacher through his Spirit *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; JOHN 8:31-36;1 JOHN 2:27. These promises are conditional of course in prayerfully continuing to believe and follow God's Word and asking Jesus to guide us and lead us into all truth. As the scriptures teach this is our only safegaurd as it is written in the last days there will be many false teachers even showing great signs and wonders to deceive if possible God's very elect. Many today are turning to men instead of God to know God's Word when the scriptures plainly teach;

    JEREMIAH 17:5 [5], Thus saith Jehovah: Cursed is the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from Jehovah.

    ISAIAH 28:9-14
    [9], Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
    [10], For precept must be on precept, precept on precept; line on line, line on line; here a little, and there a little:
    [11], For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
    [12], To whom he said, This is the rest with which you may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
    [13], But the word of the LORD was to them precept on precept, precept on precept; line on line, line on line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
    [14], Why hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

    Yep only those taught of God will know his Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4; MATTHEW 15:3-9

    God bless
     
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  16. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Verse 7:

    Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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    “Michael” – “Who is like unto God” (Jesus); Dan. 10:13,21, 21:1; 1 Thes. 4:16; Jud. 1:9; Rev. 12:7 (Character; Heb. 1:3, “the express image”; G5481; χαρακτηρ; see also Col. 1:15, “Who is the image of the invisible God”; Jhn. 17:6, “I have manifested thy name”; 2 Cor. 4:4, “Christ, who is the image of God”; see also “image” - Gen. 1:26-27, 5:1, 9:6; Rom. 1:23; 1 Cor. 11:7, 15:45-49.); see also Exo. 8:10, 15:11; 1 Ki. 8:23; Psa. 71:19; see also Deut. 33:26; 2 Chr. 6:14; Job. 36:22; Psa. 35:10, 86:8, 89:8, 113:5; Jer. 10:6-7; Mic. 7:18.

    “and his angels” – those sent Legions of Light; the Heavenly (and earthly) ministers of God, who obey His commandments; see Psa. 103:20-21, 104:4; Heb. 1:7,9,13-14 and see also the Ten thousands of angels, the hosts of Heaven, Deut. 33:2; Psa. 68:17; Son. 5:10; Dan. 7:10; Zec. 14:5; Mat. 13:41, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31, 26:53,64; Mar. 8:38, 14:62; Luk. 9:26, 14:31; Jhn. 1:51; 1 Thes. 4:16; 2 Thes. 1:7; Jud. 1:14; Rev. 1:7, 5:11; see also (true) 1 Cor. 4:15; (counterfeit) 2 Cor. 11:13-15. For more texts on “angels”, see ‘Michael the archangel [03] - The word “angel” as defined and used’ - Link

    •“fought against” – To war (see notes on “And there was war in heaven”); see also Exo. 14:14, 15:3; Deut. 1:30, 3:22, 20:4; Jos. 10:29,31,34,36,38; Judg. 5:20; 2 Sam. 12:29; 2 Chr. 20:17,29; Psa. 93:1, 109:3; Isa. 42:13, 63:10; Zec. 14:12; 2 Tim. 2:5.

    “the dragon” – The one-time anointed cherub Lucifer (Isa. 14:12; Eze. 28:12-19), arch-angel of evil, now serpent, that Leviathan, satan, the devil, that lying spirit, the accuser of the brethren, the deceiver, the destroyer; King over the children of pride – Gen. 3:1; 1 Ki. 22:22-23; 2 Chr. 18:21-22; Job. 1:6-12, 2:1-7, 41:1-34; Isa. 27:1, 51:9; Eze. 29:3; Dan. 10:13,20; Luk. 10:18; 2 Cor. 11:3,14; Eph. 2:2; Jud. 1:6; Rev. 9:11, 12:9, 20:2.

    “and his angels” – The fallen hosts of heaven (and earth) who followed Lucifer in rebellion, known as the ‘devils’, or ‘children of disobedience’; see Mat. 8:29; Mar. 5:9,15; Luk. 8:30, 10:17; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Eph. 2:2, 5:6, 6:12; Col. 3:6; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jud. 1:6.

    •General texts on “Satan”: 1 Chr. 1:21; Psa. 109:6; Zec. 3:1,2; Mat. 4:10, 12:26, 16:23; Mar. 1:13,23,26, 4:15, 8:33; Luk. 4:8, 11:18, 13:16, 22:3,31; Jhn. 13:27; Act. 5:3, 26:18; Rom. 16:20; 1 Cor. 5:5, 7:5; 2 Cor. 2:11, 12:7; 1 Thes. 2:18; 2 Thes. 2:9; 1 Tim. 1:20, 5:15; Rev. 2:9,13,24, 3:9, 12:9, 20:2,7.

    •The “devil”: Mat. 4:1,5,8,11, 13:39, 25:41; Luk. 4:2,3,5,6,13, 8:12; Jhn. 8:44, 13:2; Act. 10:38, 13:10; Eph. 4:27, 6:11; 1 Tim. 3:6,7; 2 Tim. 2:26; Heb. 2:14; Jam. 4:7; 1 Pet. 5:8; 1 Jhn. 3:8,10; Jud. 1:9; Rev. 2:10, 12:9,12, 20:2,10.

    •That “lying spirit”: 1 Ki. 22:22-23; 2 Chr. 18:21-22.

    •The “Serpent”: Gen. 3:1,2,4,13,14; Isa. 27:1; 2 Cor. 11:3; Rev. 12:9,14,15, 20:2.

    •The “Dragon”: Isa. 27:1, 51:9; Eze. 29:3; Rev. 12:3,4,7,9,13,16,17, 13:2,4,11, 16:13, 20:2.

    •The “Leviathan”: Job. 41:1; Psa. 74:14, 104:26; Isa. 27:1.

    •The “Wicked”: Mat. 13:19,38; Eph. 6:6; 2 Thes. 2:8; 1 Jhn. 2:13,14, 3:12, 5:18.

    •The “Baalzebub”, “Beelzebub”: 2 Ki. 1:2,3,6,16; Mat. 10:25, 12:24,27; Mar. 3:22; Luk. 11:15,18,19.

    •The “roaring lion”: Prov. 28:15; 1 Pet. 5:8.

    •The “angel of the bottomless pit”, “Abaddon”, “Apollyon” (‘destroyer’) – Rev. 9:11.

    •The “throne of iniquity”, even “Satan's seat”, “god of this world” by which he rules over the children of disobedience, whether those angelic begins fallen from heaven, or those children of Adam of the earth: Psa. 1:1, 94:20; Isa. 14:13; Eze. 8:3; Hag. 2:22; 2 Cor. 4:4; Rev. 2:13, 13:2, 16:10.

    •The Legions of ‘Lie-ght’:

    Jude 1:6 KJB - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    •The “devils”, aka fallen evil angels and lesser evil arch-angels:

    •Lev. 17:7; Deut. 32:17; 2 Chr. 11:15; Psa. 106:37; Mat. 4:24, 7:22, 8:16,28,31,33, 9:32,33,34, 10:8, 11:18, 12:22,24,27,28, 15:22, 17:18; Mar. 1:32,34,39, 3:15,22, 5:12,15,16,18, 6:13, 7:26,29,30, 9:38, 16:9,17; Luk. 4:35,41, 7:33, 8:2,27,30,33,35,36,38, 9:1,42,49, 10:17, 11:14,15,18,19,20, 13:32; Jhn. 6:70, 7:20, 8:48,49,52, 10:20,21; 1 Cor. 10:20,21; 1 Tim. 4:1; Jam. 2:19; Rev. 9:20, 16:14, 18:2.

    •The order of the wicked, the “Legion”:

    •Mar. 5:8-15; Luk. 8:27-33.​

    “and the dragon fought and his angels” – Lucifer (the ‘anointed cherub’ (Eze. 28:14) who wanted the place of the Son of God (Isa. 14:13-14; thus became anti-Christ)) and those who joined with him, rebelled against God, see also Job. 1:6-12, 2:1-7; Dan. 10:13,20-21; Zec. 3:1-2; Jud. 1:9 See notes on “And there was war in heaven”.

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  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel New Member

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    This would be interesting to also look at Revelation 13, 14, 17 and 18 and to study the modern day Beasts of Revelation 13, the Mark of the Beast, Babylon, 666 and the AntiChrist.

    God bless
     
  18. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Apologies, I forgot to include "war in heaven", in vs 7, so here it is:

    “And there was war in heaven” – A Great Controversy; a War of ideas, mind/heart against mind/heart (spiritual; Jam. 4:1; Rev. 2:16), leading to war of strength/arm against strength/arm (physical) (G4171; πολεμος); see Mar. 13:7; Luk. 14:31, 21:9; 1 Cor. 14:8; Heb. 11:34; Rev. 9:7,9, 12:7, 13:7, 16:14, 19:19, 20:8; see also (G4170; πολεμέω) Jam. 4:2; Rev. 2:16, 12:7, 13:4, 17:14, 19:11; see also Isa. 34:5; Dan. 9:26; Eph. 6:12.

    •See also the uses in so-called * LXX (Septuaginta) -

    πολεμέω (war; Exo. 17:8, etc.) - Kata Biblon Wiki Lexicon - πολεμέω - to wage war (v.)

    πόλεμος (war; Gen. 14:2, etc.) - Kata Biblon Wiki Lexicon - πόλεμος - war (n.)

    πολεμόω [LXX] (provoke to war; (Apocrypha) 4 Mac. 4:21) - Kata Biblon Wiki Lexicon - πολεμόω - to provoke to war against (v.)
     
  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel New Member

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    No need to aploagise. Do you think you will continue in this thread to look at Revelation 13; 14; to 18 or will they be new threads? Interesting topics the prophecies. There is also Old Testament scriptures that link to the new New as well. Thanks for sharing I have been having a slow read as you have posted alot already. ;)

    God bless
     
  20. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    I suppose it would be safer to begin a new thread per chapter, so as not to bury them. I would also have to have some more time, since presently things are busy (aren't they always?), before posting on those chapters, but it is a very good idea, and have been desiring to do so for quite some time anyways.

    Yes, Daniel and Revelation especially, but also many others, such as Ezekiel, and so on.

    You are welcome, please take your time, and consider every text, even when it seems like they are simply duplicates (in the mouth of two or three witnesses, let everything be established).
     
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