I never said, or implied such a thing. You are responsible for what you now know and the sins and errors thereof. You are not responsible for a single 'pope's (etc) or another's atrocities except your own, or by what you are knowledgably complicit in (doctrinally or by deed). In other words, I do not hold you personally responsible for anything listed in this thread, except with the exceptions just noted (ie your own or knowledgably complicit in).
Roman Catholicism and the total abuse & murder of children (incl. abortion).
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alofa Atu, May 22, 2019.
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Isaiah 34:7 (AV1611), see Left Hand Notation for "|| Unicornes", which says, "|| Or, Rhino-cerots.", which is in addition to the 'bullockes with the bulles' (therefore not an 'ox, wild-ox, or horse').
Isaiah 59:5 (AV1611), see Left Hand Notation for "|| cockatrice egges", which says, "|| Or, adders.", which is a deadly viper, which is exactly what the context said it has to be.
The AV1611 translators knew their Latin and use of words being linguists, and thus knew what they were doing by giving the notation and 'knew' no such thing as you intimated they did.
Stay on OP please. -
When discussing the issue of 'abortion', most of the discussion is confused by blurry, fuzzy nebulous definitions. I had previously given a definition:
Would anyone say that a 'miscarriage' was sin? It would depend on how that miscarriage came about, wouldn't it? Not all things in this world are 'sin', though there are 'evil' things as a result of mankind's sin/s. For instance, pollutants, ignorance, etc, can all bring about a miscarriage (an 'abortion'), but while it is 'evil', it is not automatically 'sin'.
If a person does bodily harm to a woman who is pregnant, even this is 'evil', but not always sin, as for instance, a woman may be injured in an accident, or accidently trampled by a crowd escaping a fire, etc, and end up miscarrying ('aborting'), but was it sin?, no, it is 'evil', but not sin. The result came about of the greater result of sin in the world, and was thus 'evil' (bad).
A woman may eat something, and unknowingly have an allergic reaction, and miscarry.
A woman, because of the nature of the world we currently live in, and its fallen state, may end up with what is known as an ectopic pregnancy, or with the pregnancy attached to another place other than the normal place, outside of the uterus/womb. This is a very dangerous condition, if the pregnancy is viable and begins to grow and cell divide/multiply, and could cause the bursting and internal bleeding of said person, and bring the woman to death. It is morally right to surgically remove the life-threatening condition? Yes, as even scripture gives council to 'cut off' that which is 'evil', and even gives counsel not only physically, but also spiritually (cutting off, casting out unruly church members who refuse to be counseled).
Yet, are we really speaking about any of those things, when dealing with the subject of 'abortion'. Not really.
The real matter is when a woman, who is pregnant, decides (for whatever reason) to personally terminate the pregnancy which is viable.
This may be because the woman became pregnant through her own fault and is not married.
This may be because the woman became pregnant through force (rape). This situation is much more delicate. The woman should always be counseled, helped, comforted and encouraged in this case. The choice to do what she wills, is her decision (whether legal of illegal by state law) and will be responsible before God for that decision. Others would try to force this woman (girl, female child) to carry through to birth. This brings in the other 'evil' side. For instance, such a little girl, as an extreme (since many love to dwell in the extreme, rather than the norm), if pregnant through rape or incest would then begin to develope and would this little girl be able to survive such, or would even the pregnancy? This is all in the realm of 'ifs'.
What brings the discussion to a boil is the definition of what comes of the first moment of pregnancy. What is the classification thereof. Human being, lump of cells, something inbetween, neither?
Looking at it from a medical standpoint, the pregnancy has unique human D.N.A. and is therefore nothing else but 'human'. For instance, it is not 'elephant kind', 'horse kind', etc. The pregnancy is most definitely human kind by its very D.N.A. Yet does that automatically make such cells a 'human being'. Allow me to illustrate, as I may have a piece of human flesh (say from my fingernail, or toenail, or simply sloughed off skin from scratching, or an eyelash, hair, etc) separated from my body. Does that have all the D.N.A. of a human being? Yes. Is it still living (yes, for the moment if fresh), Is it a human being? No.
So the question becomes obvious doesn't it.
This is where the conversation needs to happen.
Am I advocating tearing whole viable children apart in the womb, that have a heartbeat, a mind already functioning. Obviously not (even in cases of rape/incest for adults, that have carried to that point, the person should at least consider the other options). The life of the one already alive should be considered first.
Discussing these things would help us to not have unrealistic, or even cruel, positions on 'abortion'.
Any thoughts, questions, comments? Let's really look at this. -
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What you do find is individuals that do their own thing, and then somehow make those Judas' the 'whole church'. You are actually painting Jesus Christ as the author of the crime. Woe is upon you.
Eze 9:1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.
Eze 9:2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
Eze 9:3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
Eze 9:7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
Eze 9:8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?
Eze 9:9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.
Eze 9:10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.
Eze 9:11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
Judgment begins at the house of God, beginning with the Elders. We are Laodicea, no doubt.
I told you this already:
"... The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a [205] wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. {1SM 204.2}
Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? {1SM 205.1} ..." - 1 Selected Messages 204.2-250.1.
Notice, "structure". Anything which was not built according to the plans God gave in the Scripture and SoP/ToJ, will be swept away soon enough, and even now is already being swept away, piece by piece. God's people will go through, as Paul's ship, and some pieces of structure will go through.
I warned you. If you do not come out of the Roman Catholic system (Rev. 18), you will perish with that entire system:
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Nothing of it will remain. The judgment of God upon it, after He deals with us, will be unlike anything this world has yet seen. Flee from the wrath to come Walter. Even Rome acknowledges that she is the woman of Revelation 17, Urs von Balthazar. -
Sister White saw:
"... That night I dreamed that I was in Battle Creek looking out from the side glass at the door and saw a company marching up to the house, two and two. They looked stern and determined. I knew them well and turned to open the parlor door to receive them, but thought I would look again. The scene was changed. The company now presented the appearance of a Catholic procession. One bore in his hand a cross, another a reed. And as they approached, the one carrying a reed made a circle around the house, saying three times: "This house is proscribed. The goods must be confiscated. They have spoken against our holy order." Terror seized me, and I ran through the house, out of the north door, and found myself in the midst of a company, some of whom I knew, but I dared not speak a word to them for fear of being betrayed. I tried to seek a retired spot where I might weep and pray without meeting eager, inquisitive eyes wherever I turned. I repeated frequently: "If I could only understand this! If they will tell me what I have said or what I have done!" {1T 577.2}
I wept and prayed much as I saw our goods confiscated. I tried to read sympathy or pity for me in the looks of those around me, and marked the countenances of several whom I thought would speak to me and comfort me if they did not fear that they would be observed by others. I made one attempt to escape from the crowd, but seeing that I was watched, I concealed my intentions. I commenced weeping aloud, and saying: "If they would only tell me what I have done or what I have said!" My husband, who was sleeping in a bed in the same room, heard me weeping aloud and awoke me. My pillow was wet with tears, and a sad depression of spirits was upon me. {1T 578.1} ..." - Testimonies to the Church, Volume 1, pages 577.2- 578.1
All such is being swept away. -
Have you forgotten so soon my sources?
Catholics for Choice - "... Catholics for Choice believes in a world where everyone has equal access to the full range of reproductive healthcare services—including access to safe and legal abortion services and affordable and reliable forms of contraception. ..." - - Catholics for Choice
"... And although religious groups have been some of the most vocal anti-abortion advocates in America, the majority of people who got abortions in 2014 identified as religious, with 17 percent listing themselves as mainline Protestant, 13 percent as evangelical, and 24 percent as Roman Catholic. The abortion rate among Catholic women was about the same as the national average, while among evangelical women it was about half the national average. ..." - VOX - https://www.vox.com/2019/5/16/18628002/abortion-ohio-alabama-georgia-law-bill-details
“... Research and publications from the Alan Guttmacher Institute in America illustrate some contradictions in the Catholic stance against abortion:
Catholic women in the United States are as likely as women in the general population to have an abortion, and 29% more likely than Protestant women.
Catholic countries, even where abortion is illegal, have high levels of abortions: in Brazil, the estimated number of abortions ranges from 1 million to 2 million per year and in Peru, 5% of women of childbearing age have abortions each year, compared to 3% in the United States.
64% of US Catholics disapprove of the statement that abortion is morally wrong in every case (Survey of 493 Catholics, designed by Lake Research and Tarrance Group, for US News & World Report, Sept. 1995, margin of error ± 4.5%.)
72% of Catholics in Australia say decisions about abortion should be left to individual women and their doctors. (Survey for Family Planning Australia and Children by Choice, Melbourne, AGB McNair, Aug. 1996.) ...” - BBC - Religions - Christianity: Abortion
“... In 1973, as a result of the Supreme Court decisions, “Roe V. Wade” and “Doe v. Bolton” abortion became legal in the U.S. for all nine months of pregnancy for virtually any reason. ..." - Abortion History » Roman Catholic Diocese of Syracuse#
"... And yet medieval biographies of multiple Irish Catholic saints, including beloved Brigid of Kildare, reverently record abortions among their miracles, and medieval Irish Catholic penitentialists, priestly authorities who prescribed penances for sins and were often celebrated as saints themselves, treated abortion as a relatively minor offence. ...
...Ciarán of Saigir, after he rescued a nun named Bruinnech who had been abducted by a local king. “When the man of God returned to the monastery with the girl, she confessed that she was pregnant. Then the man of God, led by the zeal of justice, not wishing the serpent’s seed to quicken, pressed down on her womb with the sign of the cross and forced her womb to be emptied.” Bruinnech’s feelings about her rape, pregnancy, or abortion are not addressed, apart from her “confession”. ...
... When another nun, pregnant after “fornicating secretly”, had Cainnech of Aghaboe bless her belly, “at once the baby (infans) in her womb vanished without a trace”. ..." - Saints once did abortions – it was a lesser sin than oral sex -
Yet, I have sources, and more and the practices of Rome's theology carried out, and it is nothing 'pro-life' in it, but is simply a name to cover the atrocities.:
Religion of the Supreme Court
Was Roe Vs. Wade Decided By a Republican Court?
Moderate Roman Catholic Position on Contraception and Abortion
Abortion
The Straits Times, 20 January 1967, Page 3
40% of Catholic Nuns Have Been Sexually Abused - Apostasynow.org
40% of Catholic Nuns Have Been Sexually Abused - LIBRARY OF MOST CONTROVERSIAL FILES
https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-jE87IzV9MFhV07FV/Kennedy - Lucifer's Lodge - Satanic Ritual Abuse in the Catholic Church (2004)#page/n11/mode/1up
Nuns, rape, and the Zika virus
18th century nun had sought abortion
Little Sisters face new lawsuit over their HHS mandate exemption
The Catholic church is ‘shocked’ at the hundreds of children buried at Tuam. Really? | Emer O’Toole
Pope Francis probably got his history wrong when talking about contraception and Zika
CATHOLICS AND THE SUPREME COURT: AN UNEASY RELATIONSHIP
Documents Allege Abuse of Nuns by Priests
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...posed-Sisters-sold-children-fallen-girls.html
Pregnant Nuns | NZETC
Hospital owned by Catholic nuns will commit abortions
https://amazingdiscoveries.org/blog...-and-rape-of-nuns-by-priests-in-23-countries/
NEW INFORMATION: Catholic hospital asked to cut ties with doctor
Abortion vs. saving mother's life
Dublin’s leading Catholic hospital agrees to kill unborn babies through abortion
Sisters of Charity hospital deal altering Denver-area care - The Colorado Independent
https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...-are-carried-out-at-st-vincents-35654876.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...catholic-hospital-says-in-court-case/1863013/
https://www.aclu.org/blog/reproduct...-rights/one-nations-largest-catholic-hospital
http://www.usccb.org/about/doctrine/publications/upload/direct-abortion-statement2010-06-23.pdf
Nun Excommunicated For Allowing Abortion
Which denominations allow abortions, and why?
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/68930/1/Christopoulos_John_201306_Phd_thesis.pdf
https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1125&context=nd_naturallaw_forum
https://books.google.com/books?id=pSPoCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA195&lpg=PA195&dq=archbishop+of+Florence,+Antoninus+Abortion&source=bl&ots=_0pE3Egsz-&sig=hmtmgAIOrSicakPjdpbuV1MmTyM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjji4LJhrjcAhVk0FQKHbo2As8Q6AEwA3oECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=archbishop of Florence, Antoninus Abortion&f=false
THE PROBLEM OF THE SEXUAL ABUSE OF AFRICAN RELIGIOUS IN AFRICA AND IN ROME
https://www.actl.com/docs/default-s...fpowell_lectureseries_2017_final.pdf?sfvrsn=6
Do consider the pain, suffering and death brought about by the Roman Catholic official doctrine, to women, because they have a false position by their so-called 'pro-life' position, which is nothing of the sort. Consider the links above and the women in them.
I didn't make any of it up Walter. You will find sister White didn't have to make it up either. -
What brings the discussion to a boil is the definition of what comes of the first moment of pregnancy. What is the classification thereof. Human being, lump of cells, something inbetween, neither?
"... Looking at it from a medical standpoint, the pregnancy has unique human D.N.A. and is therefore nothing else but 'human'. For instance, it is not 'elephant kind', 'horse kind', etc. The pregnancy is most definitely human kind by its very D.N.A. Yet does that automatically make such cells a 'human being'. Allow me to illustrate, as I may have a piece of human flesh (say from my fingernail, or toenail, or simply sloughed off skin from scratching, or an eyelash, hair, etc) separated from my body. Does that have all the D.N.A. of a human being? Yes. Is it still living (yes, for the moment if fresh), Is it a human being? No.
So the question becomes obvious doesn't it.
This is where the conversation needs to happen.
Am I advocating tearing whole viable children apart in the womb, that have a heartbeat, a mind already functioning. Obviously not (even in cases of rape/incest for adults, that have carried to that point, the person should at least consider the other options). The life of the one already alive should be considered first.
Discussing these things would help us to not have unrealistic, or even cruel, positions on 'abortion'.
Any thoughts, questions, comments? Let's really look at this. ..."
Well? -
Let's look at Ectopic pregnancy:
"... For pregnancy to happen, the ovary has to release an egg into the fallopian tube, where it stays for about 24 hours. There it has to come in contact with a sperm to be fertilized. The fertilized egg stays in the fallopian tube for 3 or 4 days before it heads to the uterus. There it attaches to the lining and continues to grow until a baby is born.
But if the fertilized egg implants in your fallopian tube or somewhere else in your abdomen, you end up with what’s called an ectopic pregnancy. In these cases, the pregnancy can’t continue normally, and it requires emergency treatment. ..." - WebMD
A rare condition (Ectopic) to be sure, yet a very real condition in this the final days of earth's present history.
So, my question is (especially to the persons already responding in this thread), Once the egg of the woman is fertilized by the sperm, and begins to cell divide, and move from the fallopian tubes to the 'womb' (about 4-5 days process), but gets stuck inbetween, and attaches to the fallopian tube or other location than the 'womb', and begins to grow, is it right to remove this (surgically) so that the woman does not internally bleed out and suffer serious injury or death? Would Jesus bring healing to this woman by removing that which is harmful? What then happens to the 'ectopic pregnancy', does it continue to grow outside of its normal environ (womb)? Does it have all the D.N.A. of a human being, as my fingernail, does?
"... An ectopic pregnancy cannot be moved to the uterus to grow normally and almost never survives until birth. ..." - Ectopic Pregnancy « Ada
Thus my original question and statements:
Looking at it from a medical standpoint, the pregnancy has unique human D.N.A. and is therefore nothing else but 'human'. For instance, it is not 'elephant kind', 'horse kind', etc. The pregnancy is most definitely human kind by its very D.N.A. Yet does that automatically make such cells a 'human being'. Allow me to illustrate, as I may have a piece of human flesh (say from my fingernail, or toenail, or simply sloughed off skin from scratching, or an eyelash, hair, etc) separated from my body. Does that have all the D.N.A. of a human being? Yes. Is it still living (yes, for the moment if fresh), Is it a human being? No.
So the question becomes obvious doesn't it.
This is where the conversation needs to happen.
Am I advocating tearing whole viable children apart in the womb, that have a heartbeat, a mind already functioning. Obviously not (even in cases of rape/incest for adults, that have carried to that point, the person should at least consider the other options). The life of the one already alive should be considered first.
Discussing these things would help us to not have unrealistic, or even cruel, positions on 'abortion'.
Any thoughts, questions, comments? Let's really look at this. -
You have already been exposed for claiming that what 'individual SDA's do and say is not official church teaching. Then you turn around and point fingers at cultural Catholics who by virtue of the fact that they are pro-abortion are AUTOMATICALLY ex-communicated from the Catholic Church. The FACT remains, the Catholic Church CONDEMNS abortion in it's official teaching, whereas your OFFICIAL GUIDLINES make it clear that the SDA is pro-abortion. I think of poor SDA (pro-life Andrew) desperately trying to change the minds of SDA leaders who have abandoned the founders (E.G. White's) anti-abortion position in favor of the present Adventists Health abortion mills which are performing abortions around the clock. The ALMIGHTY DOLLAR WINS OUT IN YOUR FARCE OF A CHURCH!!! `Andrew posts video after video exposing the current teaching and practice of the SDA on abortion. You say 'Andrew said he knows of no other teaching of the SDA he objects to', as if this should not be such a big deal. You should FLEE this Molach worshipping cult! God bless Andrew for the courage he exhibits EXPOSING the evil permeating the SDA. I hope he is not the target by SDA assassins who, I am sure, would like nothing better than to silence the hideous baby murders going on in Adventists abortion millls day after day, year after year. Now, go back to your finger pointing and try to claim 'we aren't as bad as these 'cultural Catholics' over here or this 'Catholic in name only hospital over there'. You aren't fooling anyone!
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William Joseph Brennan, Jr. (appointed by Dwight Eisenhower) [Catholic] on Roe. Vs. Wade:
One of the 'Justices' of the Supreme Court, during the Roe v Wade, was a Roman Catholic, named, “William Joseph Brennan, Jr.”, who “... voted to legalize abortion.” - Was Roe Vs. Wade Decided By a Republican Court?
He was not Latae Sententiae excommunicate, but went to his grave (July 24, 1997 at age 91) as a Roman Catholic. I already told you why this was so. Its all in the official definitions (CCE, CCC, Canon Law, etc) of Rome in how they define 'innocent' and 'heretics, and 'just war', etc:
"...In a traditional Catholic ceremony at Washington's majestic St. Matthew's Cathedral, the late Justice William J. Brennan Jr. was remembered in eulogies yesterday that captured his vast liberal legacy, trademark compassion and enduring good humor. ..." - https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...00e4200/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.36673ba43f1c
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72
Go find out how Romanism defines those terms, specifically and see if those words are used in definition with 'obstinate heretics':
For instance what Romanism thinks of Martin Luther:
"... The wild boar from the forest seeks to destroy it and every wild beast feeds upon it. ..." - Exsurge Domine, 'pope' Leo X, 1520
Think that in the past?
"... try to imagine that Martin Luther, the foul worm and beast of an apostate ..." - the catholic church | catholic churches
"... The most rabid enemies of the Catholic priesthood are today the very enemies of God; ..." - On the Catholic Priesthood - Papal Encyclicals
There is of course, much, much more.
Look at the so-called 'guidelines' as "pro-Catholicism Andrew" points out:
"... 4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships. ..." - Abortion
Which part of that do you disagree with specifically? The 'rape/incest cases'? These we can look at, and I have been trying to get you to do that for some time now. I even gave a case of a child raped/incest (say age 7 or 11, (yeah that happens, especially in certain purple and scarlet churches (I cited in the OP, 'Eaters of Children') etc).
So, in order to be actually 'official' (not on a website saying its 'official') it has to be by the General Conference Seventh-day Adventists in full session. Everything else is individuals. If it doesn't agree with scripture and SoP/ToJ its bunk and never official no matter what. The Seventh-day Adventist movement is built from the ground (common people) up (Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone). -
He says he is in Philippines (so keep an eye on the time difference if you decide to bother with it). he might be too busy making another waste of time video that is only filled with half-truth, fanaticism, and love of Romanism (going so far as to even cite ex-adventists (who I have also spoken with, and refuse to address anything I said), while neglecting the real issues already made know to you.
2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Eph_5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
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As for the 'dollar', it is nothing but 'fiat' money, empty air, and worse, debt notes.
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In Malpractice Case, Catholic Hospital Argues Fetuses Aren’t People (2013)
"... But when it came to mounting a defense in the Stodghill case, Catholic Health’s lawyers effectively turned the Church directives on their head. Catholic organizations have for decades fought to change federal and state laws that fail to protect “unborn persons,” and Catholic Health’s lawyers in this case had the chance to set precedent bolstering anti-abortion legal arguments. Instead, they are arguing state law protects doctors from liability concerning unborn fetuses on grounds that those fetuses are not persons with legal rights.
As Jason Langley, an attorney with Denver-based Kennedy Childs, argued in one of the briefs he filed for the defense, the court “should not overturn the long-standing rule in Colorado that the term ‘person,’ as is used in the Wrongful Death Act, encompasses only individuals born alive. Colorado state courts define ‘person’ under the Act to include only those born alive. Therefore Plaintiffs cannot maintain wrongful death claims based on two unborn fetuses.”
The Catholic Health attorneys have so far won decisions from Fremont County District Court Judge David M. Thorson and now-retired Colorado Court of Appeals Judge Arthur Roy. ..." - In Malpractice Case, Catholic Hospital Argues Fetuses Aren't People - The Colorado Independent -
As for 'pro-catholicism Andrew', he needs to look in his own backyard, because if he really cared (rather than keep up a misinformed one-sided (his) agenda), he would start missionary work there:
"... According to an extensive 2006 Guttmacher Institute report Unintended Pregnancy and Induced Abortion in the Philippines, over 50 percent of Filipinas who have had abortions were not using any family planning. Of those who were practicing some method of birth control, three-fourths were using only the church-sanctioned methods of rhythm or withdrawal. (Did you say effective, Father Castro? That appears to be very wrong…). Further, it is estimated that most Filipinas who have abortions are married, Roman Catholic, and have at least three children. The majority of these women terminate their pregnancies because they cannot afford another child–a well-known situation of the clear and basic human need for survival. ..." - (VIDEO) The Forsaken Women of the Philippines: The Hardship, Humiliation, and Hypocrisy of Unsafe Abortion - Rewire.News -
"... In fact, in 1974, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith noted the church's opposition to abortion but fell short of calling it murder and was honest about the church's ambiguity over the personhood of a fetus or at what stage in development the creator endows a fetus with a soul. This question has been debated by theologians since the early centuries of the church. Even the current Pope favors the term "that which is in the process of becoming" when discussing a fetus. In addition, church history and positions regarding the possibility of a "just war" make the church's adherence to the impossibility of a "just abortion" hard to justify. This hard-line position has removed the church from a position in which it could help women and society understand the values which must underly every decision to have an abortion. ..." - Religion and abortion: Roman Catholicism lost in the pelvic zone. - PubMed - NCBI
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"... A rare condition (Ectopic) to be sure, yet a very real condition in this the final days of earth's present history. ..."
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