I'm probably going to alienate most of the forum, but here goes:
There's a lot of "righteous indignation" shown here by some against the RCC, calling it apostate and such. The truth is, Magisterial Protestantism and many other forms of Protestantism, including "Reformed" Baptists, share much in common with the RCC, inasmuch as they are all various forms of Western, Latin Christianity which has not much in common with the earliest churches. All of these groups follow, in varying degrees, some form of Augustinianism which is a combination of part Christian and part pagan beliefs. The only branches of Christianity that have escaped that are the Eastern churches and the Anabaptists. However, since the Eastern churches have followed a non-scriptural, non-early-church hierarchical sacramentalism, the Anabaptists are the ones with the doctrines and practices closest to scripture and the early church. There is some vestige of this strain of Christianity in John Wesley, to the extent that he was influenced by Eastern Christianity.
So, the next time anyone reads an excoriation of the RCC by some "purists" who think to have escaped such a horrible expression of Christianity, remember that the one doing the excoriating is in fact a distant cousin of Rome. All of Western (Latin) Christianity has the same views of God, man, sin, and salvation. Oh, there is the battle over sacraments, faith vs. works, etc., but the soteriology springs from the same source. I have discovered a long time ago that I have virtually nothing in common with Western, Latin Christianity; it does not reflect scripture or the early church in belief, teaching, or practice.
Roman Catholics, Magisterial Protestants, and Other "Protestants"
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Michael Wrenn, Jun 25, 2012.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
Yes those bible believing Ana-baptist were very like the early church
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Zwingli, an Anabaptist? Surely you jest. Zwingli was a Magisterial Reformer.
The Munsterites were a small, atypical group, completely unrepresentative of the Anabaptist movement. Of course you know that, but you had to say what you did to try to deflect from the fact that your RC killing machine has tried since Constantine to wipe out every Dissenter, including all the Anabaptists who were representative of the movement -- a pacifist movement seeking to follow the teachings of Jesus in His Sermon on the Mount. The RCC of the time was an instrument of Hell, persecuting and murdering in the name of Jesus, just as did the Magisterial Reformers, including Zwingli.
So, to recap with the facts: The Munsterites were in no way representative of the Anabaptist movement; they were an aberration. On the other hand, the policy of the Roman whore was to persecute and murder all Anabaptists and other dissenters, and its spawn, the Magisterial Reformers, had the same policy.
BTW, I don't equate the modern RCC with the RCC of that day. I think they are more accepting and tolerant than some fundamentalists I've known. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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The Munsterites were very atypical and non-representative of Anabaptists.
The Mennonites and other Anabaptists were pacifists; they sought to follow in practice the teachings of Jesus.
The Anabaptists were completely different from the Magisterial Reformers; they were non-Augustinian in theology; they believed in religious freedom, and believer's baptism; on this basis, they were persecuted just as strongly by the Magisterial Reformers -- Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli -- as they were by the RCC. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
As far as following the teachings of Jesus they made the comon error of reading scripture in their modern context. They shaded their readings with the newly brought philosophy of the time called humanism. Much like Luther, and Calvin both shaded their reading of scripture with a legal perspective as well as humanism due to their training as lawyers. Rather than actually read scripture from the understanding of the people of the autographs time. -
The Anabaptists tried to follow Jesus's Sermon on the Mount literally -- thus their rejection of oaths and their pacifism. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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The reason we can worship as we choose today is because of the Anabaptists, Quakers, and Baptists -- groups despised and persecuted in their early days by both the RCC and the Magisterial Reformation.
I consider myself a spiritual descendant of the Anabaptists -- although I am not completely pacifist. My theology is mostly Anabaptist. Actually, Anabaptist views on God, man, and sin are much closer to pre-Augustinian Catholicism than to the Magisterial Reformers. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Look at yourself. Did you make an immediate transition from Catholic to Baptist and then from Baptist to Catholic? Can a lot of statements be cited from your writings while in these transitions? -
Were it not for the influence of the Baptists and Quakers, and Madison and Jefferson, this country could have very well had a theocracy. It is true that many came here to escape such in England and other places, only to try and establish it for their side here -- they wanted religious freedom but only for themselves, not for everyone. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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