he says that "harmatia" translated "sin" was the natural state of Adam at the time God created him and is the normal nature of man and it have no evil connotations. I deny that, and I deny anyone to find the use of that term where it is described as "good". It is defined as "transgression of the law" (1 Jn. 3:6) and that is why it is coming short of the glory of God because the law defines righteousness or holiness which is the glory of God. He reduces the phrase "glory of God" to simply mean man is not absolutely perfect in all respects and neither are we and so harmatia is the normal condition of man before and after the fall. Meaning, we are in the same condition as Adam before the fall as harmatia exists before and after Adam's disobedience that Paul refers to in Romans 5:15-19.
Romans 5:12-19 and the source of sin and death in humanity
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Biblicist, Jan 18, 2019.
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
So I do not belueve in a "pre-Fall nature" versus a "post-Fall nature". And I'm pretty firm about it. - Jon C -
Isaiah 54:1
“Shout for joy, O barren one, you who have borne no child; Break forth into joyful shouting and cry aloud, you who have not travailed; For the sons of the desolate one will be more numerous Than the sons of the married woman,” says the LORD.
It is the spiritual descendants of Abraham who are counted as heirs (those with the same faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ that Abraham had). -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The tiger (which I believe was created with the tools to survive) was good. Creation was good. -
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Death is condemnation and judgement and all post-fallen men are under the reign of death (Rom. 5:12-19). -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Heb 2:14-16 NASB
14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. 16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
Rom 8:20-22 NASB
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
We do see a Biblical basis that the sin nature was a result of the fall... but more specifically a result of the judgement of DEATH. -
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The sequence is God creates a "very good" creation without sin or death. Man chooses to sin thereby bringing the curse of death into the world. All of creation is subject to Adam's corporate judgement and anxiously awaits redemption or repeal of that corporate judgement. At the resurrection, Adam's corporate judgement will be repealed thereby resurrecting ALL men. Those with faith will have life and those without faith will die a second death as God replaces the corporate judgement of Adam with individual judgements. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Free Will means you have no internal restraints preventing your choice. Such was the case with Adam before the fall.
However, after the fall and due to the fall internal restraints existed upon the will of man so that he does not choose contrary to his nature.
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