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Featured Sanctification

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by NetChaplain, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Active Member
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    Sanctification


    Many believers of late are of the notion that “sanctification” is a process involving the completion of one’s salvation, and that one cannot know for certain when, or even if one is or will be saved until this sanctification process is complete! Be encouraged, dearly beloved in Christ to know that at the moment one is brought to faith in Christ, all within is complete and entire concerning “all things that pertain to life and godliness” (2Pe 1:3), which most importantly includes—redemption within salvation!

    As one cannot grow into “being holy” (either one is are isn’t), so also one does not grow into being sanctified, nor is it ever descriptively used in Scripture to denote a process. It’s not as though one can do anything to be sanctified (which comes only by the Spirit at rebirth - 1Co 6:11; 2Th 2:13; 1Pe 1:2), it must be imputed, which is the same for all the attributes of God (except salvation, which is imparted and not imputed). Any concept that tends to attribute works towards producing or retaining redemption (usually inadvertently) detracts from attributing glory to God. Works are the fruit of godliness, and not the source of godliness, which is solely of God; and the most prevalent trademark of doctrinal-error within Christianity is works-attribution towards the apprehension and retention of godliness, which detracts testimony from unlearned believers.

    I believe that the sole provision in spiritual growth of one’s faith of Christianity (faith is the only godly attribute which grows, and in strength of quality not quantity, as all else is complete) lies within that which concerns its completeness and permanency (because they are the derivatives of all growth truths); and one’s testimony of love to others and the endurance of trials will be manifested in accordance to the level of the understanding and application of these two Biblical truths.

    With the most important growth truths comes also the most difficulties (of course) concerning their understanding and application, which answers to why there is not only a waning in many Christians spiritual growth, but also in the number of many long time Church attendees (within the last couple generations).
    NC
     
  2. JoeT

    JoeT Member

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    SANCTIFICATION: Being made holy. The first sanctification takes place at baptism, by which the love of God is infused by the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5). Newly baptized persons are holy because the Holy Trinity begins to dwell in their souls and they are pleasing to God. The second sanctification is a lifelong process in which a person already in the state of grace grows in the possession of grace and in likeness to God by faithfully corresponding with divine inspirations. The third sanctification takes place when a person enters heaven and becomes totally and irrevocably united with God in the beatific vision. (Etym. Latin sanctificare, to make holy.) Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J., Modern Catholic Dictionary.

    It should be remember, in adult Baptism, Justification (the movement from being unjust to just), sanctification and righteousness are in conjunction with us starting at Baptism. Each is the result of the other, in aligning our will to the will of God we gain justice thereby receiving sanctification which of course is being ‘right-with-God’, i.e. righteousness.

    Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life: (Cf. Council of Trent (1547): DS 1529.)

    But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. (Rom 3:21-26) [CCC 1992]
    Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

    When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight. (Council of Trent (1547): DS 1525.) [CCC 1993]
    Sanctification, justification, and righteousness are a quality of our state of being.

    JoeT​
     
  3. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Active Member
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    [QUOTE="JoeT, post: 2536152, member: 15631]Sanctification, justification, and righteousness are a quality of our state of being.[/QUOTE]
    Hi and thanks for the reply! I agree, these are a state of being, which are imputed to the believer at the point of faith, along with holiness; and are imo complete and permanent, as we continue to grow in our faith until we leave.
     
  4. JoeT

    JoeT Member

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    Let me point out what I see as a contradiction, if it is complete, lacking nothing, permanent then 'growth' in our faith wouldn't be needed.

    Baptism is a sacrament conveying efficacious graces which in themselves are lacking nothing which, "according to its nature, it should possess." As the grace is of a Divine source therefore it should be considered 'absolutely' perfect, the nature of its source. It is not 'imputed', a declaration, a judgement, nor is it in-putted, it is a "real and efficacious grace. It is a permanent in so long as the graces received are cooperated with. One can, and many do, turn away from this grace so it is only permanent in so long as our will conforms to that of God's; but the grace, if but a mustered seed remains but without prophet or growth. The graces of Baptism are once and permanent in the sense that if, after failing, one turns back to the grace it will be there (sometimes stronger). I'm convinced the complete purpose of Baptism is the rectitude of the will re-instilling justice.

    JoeT
     
  5. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Active Member
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    Godly attributes reflect God's composition which need no growth but can only be imputed (accredited). Faith is something not imputed but imparted and increases (grows) in understanding and use. Sanctification and all godly attributes are not things man can use but are only what describes their position in God.

    That's why Scripture shows growth in faith but not in that which can only be attributed to God and imputed to the believer, i.e. sanctification, holiness, righteousness, etc. All who are reborn are in the same degree of sanctification, same for holiness, but all are at different degrees of faith.

    Blessings!
     
  6. JoeT

    JoeT Member

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    Our differences might seem small to you, but they are in reality a wide chasm which can only be crossed on the Ponte Sant'Angelo, otherwise known as the Bridge of St. Peter.

    Sanctification is not a grace that merely covers sin, it is not a declaration of declaring what was once sinful, sinless. It is a real and efficacious grace. By efficacious I mean that it produces the effect of the name of the grace, i.e. a permanent state of being made right with God, a quality that becomes a part of the soul.

    “What the justification of the impious is, and what are the causes thereof. This disposition, or preparation, is followed by Justification itself, which is not remission of sins merely, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man, through the voluntary reception of the grace, and of the gifts, whereby man of unjust becomes just, and of an enemy a friend, that so he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting.” [Trent, Session VI, 7]​

    When applied to God, “sanctity” is an absolute moral perfection. When applied to man it relates to the union with that moral perfection of God. In men the strength of this saving grace is denoted by the degree by which we participate in God’s moral perfection. When applied to the Church sanctity is the strength, by which she is joined to the work of Jesus Christ,

    Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it: That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life:" [Ephesians 5:25-26]​

    Thus,

    Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism." [Ephesians 4:3-5]​

    Faith is defined in Scripture as “the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not.” [Hebrews 11:1] Born in hope it is formed by charity. This definition is true of faith in human affairs as well as those things directed toward God’s ‘good’. A ‘living’ faith is rationally ascending to God’s Truth and perfecting the habit of the will to move towards God’s Truth. (Cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa II, II, 5). The purpose is so that “we understand that the world was framed by the word of God; that from invisible things visible things might be made.” [Hebrews 11:3]

    Ascribing a salvific faith as only a grace is a fiduciary faith meant only to cover sin and denies the works of hope and charity. This way works become concomitants, a force that follows an act of God, and not necessary trending to salvation. Taking the position that faith is the sole requirement for justification (sola fides justificat) creates several conflicts in scripture, first, and most obvious, of which is noted in James 2:2. Also denied is hope that hope saves, (C.f. Romans 8:24), and charity (C.f. Luke 7:47), further is penance with contrition and almsgiving become suddenly silent in this philosophy (C.f. Luke 13:3; Acts 2:38; 3:19), (Daniel 4:24; Tob., 12:9).

    A philosophical faith, a fiduciary faith, and a dead faith that would deny a perfected faith formed in charity.

    Faith is Hope


    Before turning our attention to these timely questions, we must listen a little more closely to the Bible's testimony on hope. “Hope”, in fact, is a key word in Biblical faith—so much so that in several passages the words “faith” and “hope” seem interchangeable. Thus the Letter to the Hebrews closely links the “fullness of faith” (Hebrews 10:22) to “the confession of our hope without wavering” (Hebrews 10:23). Likewise, when the First Letter of Peter exhorts Christians to be always ready to give an answer concerning the logos—the meaning and the reason—of their hope (1 Peter 3:15), “hope” is equivalent to “faith”. We see how decisively the self-understanding of the early Christians was shaped by their having received the gift of a trustworthy hope, when we compare the Christian life with life prior to faith, or with the situation of the followers of other religions. Paul reminds the Ephesians that before their encounter with Christ they were “without hope and without God in the world” (Ephesians 2:12). [Benedict XVI Spe Salvi, 2]​

    A faith imputed, covering, as I alluded to above is a fiduciary faith - merely a philosophical faith, more times than not subjectively acquired only through the book. Let me instead suggest that justification by faith alone does not affect the natural moral powers formed by charity where good works no longer affect our relationship with God. Hence God cannot be pleased without a change of heart soul and mind faith remains uninformed (fides informis) lacking this moral relationship with God. Instead faith is formed in charity (fides caritate formata).

    While Catholics also believe that faith grows, it is not the thin sheet of reasoning morphing into a full body shroud of the subjective and nominal and unreal error in faith. A man who is just or justified in Baptism, says St. Paul, is not justified by ius positum, (by positive law) rather, "the just man liveth by faith." [Galatians 3:11]. “The justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith”,[Romans 1:17] faith grows producing more faith, like a vine that grows producing more vine and more fruit. So, we know “the substance things hoped for yet not seen” in faith grows within its own as it is perfected; faith unto faith. Then there is, “ the just shall live by faith." [Romans 1:17] which also comes in Baptism. What then is a living faith, the same faith that works by charity [Galatians 5:6]. It is written says, St. Paul, and so “the just shall live in his faith." [Habacuc 2:4]. But turn away from a living faith God says “shall not please my soul” [Hebrews 10:38].

    JoeT
     
  7. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Active Member
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    Concerning "sanctified," my purpose for the article was to show that it is irrelevant as reference to effecting (producing) salvation, because it is fully imputed at rebirth, same for holiness, righteousness, and justification (all of which only manifests faith and salvation, not produces nor retains faith and salvation).


    What Christians believe in accordance to they're present understanding on any issue is acceptable, because we assume that what we presently believe is true, and if it isn't God will eventually give us the correct understanding (unless you're not seeking truth, which this is the only way to find it - Mat 7:7; Luk 11:9); and of course it stands to reason that if we seek Scriptural support for our beliefs we will receive understanding the soonest.


    This is a list of all the NT references using "sanctified," and note that they are in the present tense, or directs to the present tense:


    Jhn 10:36

    Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


    Jhn 17:19

    And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


    Act 20:32

    And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.


    Act 26:18

    To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


    Rom 15:16

    That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.


    1Co 1:2

    Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.


    1Co 6:11

    And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


    1Co 7:14

    For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.


    1Ti 4:5

    For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


    2Ti 2:21

    If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.


    Heb 2:11

    For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren.


    Heb 10:10

    By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


    Heb 10:14

    For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


    Heb 10:29

    Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


    Jde 1:1

    Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
     
  8. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    Netchaplin's point is refuted by 1 Peter 1:16-17:
    "Be holy [Greek: "hagios"] in all your conduct; for it is written [in Leviticus 19:2], "You shall be holy; for I am holy."
    "Hagios" is the adjective cognate of the noun "hagiosyne" (= "holiness" or "sanctification"). Peter teaches that sanctification is a process that must mature until it is expressed by all our behavior. Peter is rightly interpreting his quotation of Leviticus 19:2, which proceeds to delineate the ethical and spiritual practices that are part of the process of sanctifying the faithful.

    To understand Paul's doctrine of sanctification, it is helpful to understand the Greek word "pistis," which is inadequately translated as "faith." In fact, both the Greek and the Hebrew ("amunah") words translated "faith" also "connote "faithfulness." Thus, faith is authentic if and only if it evolves into faithfulness. That is why James 1:14 can ask, "If you say that you have faith but do not have works, can faith save you?" The answer to this rhetorical question is a resounding No. "Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works (i. e. "by my faithfulness"--1:18)." So both faith and sanctification only become real as a process. Only an omniscient God foreknows whose faith and sanctification will persevere and thereby prove to be authentic. So do faith and sanctification merit salvation? No, they are necessary conditions for salvation, but not sufficient conditions because salvation remains the result of God's grace.

    Faith is not a static self-serving act that serves as a ticket that gets punched to get you into Heaven, regardless of how you subsequently live and relate to God! I recall the altar call given by a Baptist preacher in the city of my youth. He bellowed, "If you walk down this aisle and commit your life to Christ, you can curse God to His face when you leave, and you will still be saved!" That's not how God works. God's purpose is to produce a new kind of spirituality, "a new creation in Christ Jesus."
     
  9. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Active Member
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    Hi, and thanks for your reply and comments! Would appreciate scriptural support that utilizes the word "sanctification," because of the synonymous place it bears with "holy." Also need to attempt to use the NT as much as possible, because the OT usage for sanctification is more related to man's outward walk of manifestation, and the NT is more related to God's inward work in the soul, which will manifest itself in the outward walk; which walk was not established until Christ, requiring the indwelling of God's Spirit to effect everything godly within the new nature ("new man").

    God bless!
     
  10. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    For the 'NetChaplain' (the guy who posts the same stuff in every board on the net)

    A Chaplin to a Chaplain (for you NetChaplain)

    High Priest - Richard Stenbakken


     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    2 Thessalonians 2:13, ". . . But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: . . ." In sanctifcation, which I understand precedes salvation.
    1 Corinthians 6:11, ". . . And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. . . ." Was sanctified (plural).
    Now Hebrews 10:29, ". . . Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? . . ." Was sancitified (singular). But was not saved.
    1 Peter 1:2, ". . . Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. . . ."
     
  12. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    Sanctified, but not saved in Hebrews 10:29. Amen! If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who "lost their salvation," then we have a contradiction in scripture because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14)

    Strong's Concordance
    hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
    Original Word: ἁγιάζω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Transliteration: hagiazó
    Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
    Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
    Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

    The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a believer/Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation. *In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse -- and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved. A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained here and was the case for those Hebrews in Hebrews 10:29 who in context we see drew back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39)
     
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It is my understanding based on 1 Peter 1:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 that the sanctification work of the Spirit precedes repentance to the faith and salvation (John 17:17; Romans 10:17; 2 Timothy 2:25).
     
  14. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Active Member
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    Hi, and thanks for your reply and comments! Just wanted to mention that if you're relating "from the beginning" as a time reference for sanctification, it's reference to time of creation and even before creation, e.g. "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world" (Eph 1:4).

    "Such were some of you," in these sins, as all were prior to being saved, for all were "in the flesh," but are never again after being saved (Rom 8:9).

    This passage is only a "supposition" ("how much . . . suppose ye") of what could happen ("sorer punishment") if one could do the things mentioned as while saved, but is nowhere indicated that one did, and rather demonstrates it can't be done.

    I believe this is a continuation of the thought in verse 26, which explains what happens when one knows the truth and continues to live in sin without accepting and applying the truth, i.e. continues to willfully sins even after learning what the truth is.

    God bless!
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Before and from are a demarcation. Before < | > from.

    Agreed.

    Indeed a matter of interpretation.

    In any case I am of the persuasion sanctification precedes salvation.
     
  16. NetChaplain

    NetChaplain Active Member
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    Like the way you put this, and of course it's okay for us to have different understand, as all so.
     
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  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Sorry you are confused Dan and this is just simply wrong and misleading!

    Firstly there is no contradiction between HEBREWS 10:29 and HEBREWS 10:10 and HEBREWS 10:14 ands here is why;

    HEBREWS 10:10-14 is in reference and CONTEXT to HEBREWS 10:1-9 which is comparing the SHADOW laws in sin offerings and burnt offereings for forgiveness of sin from the OLD COVENANT *HEBREWS 10:1-9 that was daily to Christs perfect sacrifice HEBREWS 10:10-14 which only had to be offered once for all the sins of all mankind past, present and into the future (all time) *HEBREWS 10:10-14 as being all sufficient to those who believe and follow God's Word. The meaning here is no more animal sacrifices for sin are required because Chrsits death on the cross is our complete sacrifice everytime sin is committed to those who are "sanctified" * HEBREWS 10:29; once and for all *HEBREWS 10:10 and for all time *HEBREWS 10:14.

    Moving on to HEBREWS 10:23-27 we come to the "WARNINGS" to "BELIEVERS" to "HOLD FAST THE PROFESSION OF OUR FAITH" *HEBREWS 10:23 NOT TO " SIN WILLFULLY AFTER RECEIVING AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD *HEBREWS 10:26; then to HEBREWS 10:29 [29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?

    The WARNING here in context is to "BELIEVERS" (THOSE WHO ARE SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT - CHRIST SACRIFICE) not to "SIN WILLFULLY" after receiving a KNOWLEDGE of the truth *HEBREWS 10:26 continuing to HEBREWS 10:29 of those who BELIEVERS who "SIN WILLFULLY" [29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he (those who sin willfully) be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified ἁγιάζω, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?

    CONTEXT: here to this WARNING to BELIEVERS (If WE v26) is to those who were "ONCE BELIEVERS that SIN WILLFULLY after receiveing a knowledge of the truth. HEBREWS 10:29 stating their punishment after being sanctified ἁγιάζω, (past tense to was)

    Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 37: sanctified ἁγιάζω means to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin : 1 Corinthians 6:11; Ephesians 5:26; Hebrews 10:10, Hebrews 10:14, Hebrews 10:29; Hebrews 13:12; Hebrews 2:11 (equivalent to כִּפֶר, Exodus 29:33, 36); cf. Pfleiderer, Paulinismus, p. 340ff (English translation 2:68f).

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to sanctify From hagios; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate -- hallow, be holy, sanctify.

    Note what is shown here in HEBREWS 10:26-29?

    1. Warning to believers (if we believers) sin willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth v26
    2. How much more greater will their punishment be v29
    3. They were (past tense) made holy purified from the guilt of sin (sanctified) by the blood of the covenant v29
    4. By sinning willfully count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing v29
    5. Had received God's Spirit but grieved and insulted it v29.

    This warning is referring to those who fall into apostasy is τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς χάριτος ἐνυβρίσας, “and insult the spirit of grace”. The spirit of grace is the distinctive gift of Christian times. To have blasphemed this gracious Spirit, who brings the assurance of God’s presence and pardon, and gifts suited to each believer, is to renounce all part in things spiritual. HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 2:4; EPHESIANS 4:7

    The CONTEXT of v29 clearly shows that PAUL is addressing the BELIEVERS. The section above concludes with...

    [35], Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompense of reward.
    [36], For you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of God, you might receive the promise.
    [37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
    [38], Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back [Believers going back to willful sin see v26-29], my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
    [39], But we are not of them who draw back to perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

    Context is very clear don't you think and it is not teaching what you are. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear. There is a more detailed scripture study on HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 in the linked post for anyone interested in the linked post below...

    WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

    Hope this helps
     
    #17 3rdAngel, Oct 29, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are disagreeing with a point of view you do not understand. Your disagreement is ok. You not understanding the point of view is ok too. I cannot make you understand what it would seem you refuse to understand. You are unable to put the two views side by side so to show why your view is right and the view you do not understand reads into the text or denys what it says, if that were really the case. It is not. But you cannot show if it was. And you have proven to me you cannot.
     
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  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Brother, I believe and follow God's WORD and God is my teacher and guide according to the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13.

    All I hear in your post here are your words denying God's WORD when you have been shown why you are in error from God's Word alone by leaving out the context from your interpretation of the scriptures that have been shown side by side. All the scriptures provided showing the context you leave out in post # 17 shows proof as to why your claims are in error and they are God's Words not mine.

    In response you deny God's Word with your words which are not God's but yours. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4 and if I have only told you the truth than why do you not believe it? These posts are only provided in love and as a help to you. Receive them in the Spirit in which they are given (love). Ignoring God's WORD in order to follow the false gospel of "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" does not make God's Word dissappear.

    God's Sheep hear His Voice and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow *JOHN 10:26-27

    I believe and follow God's Word how about you? What is it in post # 17 that is not true and if it is true than why do you not believe it when it is God's Word and not my words denying Gods?

    As well as the scriptures provided in post # 17 above that show why you are in error, there is a more detailed scripture study on HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 in the linked post below for anyone interested...

    WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

    Hope this helps
     
    #19 3rdAngel, Oct 29, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  20. JoeT

    JoeT Member

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    Your right. But you are aware that Protestants believe that justification comes first then once a legal covering of sin is completed then you can continue in the process of being sanctified - which is making the pile of dung under the white covering justification, holy dung.

    You see, sanctification must be first because God's love is poured into hearts forming faith which comes from the justification that follows. [Romans 5:5]. But, "thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart, unto that form of doctrine, into which you have been delivered." [Romans 6:17] and whence we bear the fruit of love of God and neighbor.

    JoeT
     
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