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Satan Crushed Shortly

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by asterisktom, Feb 11, 2019.

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  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    "And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen." Rom.16:20

    1. Written around AD 55 by an inspired apostle.
    2. Written to actual people in the 1st century. ("your")
    3. "Shortly" ("en tachei") means "soon", "without delay".

    So...when did this happen?
    Was he inspirationally mistaken?
    Was he lying to us to keep Christians on their eschatological toes?

    When did Satan get "crushed" "shortly" after AD 55?
     
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  2. Lodic

    Lodic Active Member

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    I am still amazed at how blind I was for so long. "You" and "your" are to be understood in their context. Even though the NT was written in Greek, our modern interpreters don't have to try to make it "Greek" for us. If the original writers meant "they", "those guys", or even "that race" (ridiculous argument, but I digress), they would have said so. "Shortly" and "soon" meant the same for the NT writers that they mean for us in the ordinary use of those terms. Therefore, I must conclude that the inspired author has told us that Satan has been crushed.

    I need some help at this point. This must not have meant at the Cross, because this is over 20 years since the Resurrection. With the time frame, I'm sure this is tied in to the events of AD 70. However, evil abounds even today. How do we reconcile this dilemma? I must be missing something, because the Bible is never wrong, and there is no other way to interpret what Paul has plainly written.
     
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  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Well I haven't studied the subject in depth but here is what scripture says... Brother Glen:)

    Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

    2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
     
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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...must've been a lot of Jews at Pergamos also Acts of the Apostles 15:21; Revelation 17:15:

    Smyrna:
    9 I know thy tribulation, and thy poverty (but thou art rich), and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they art not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Rev 2

    Philadelphia:
    9 Behold, I give of the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Rev 3
     
    #4 kyredneck, Feb 11, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Um, let's see, shortly...shortly...where did I see...oh yea!:

    1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; Rev 1
     
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  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    You know before you can crush that slippery Devil, you got to find him... Hold on to your Bibles, this is going to be quite a ride... Brother Glen:Whistling
     
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  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Soon according to who's time our's, or God's? It's a given if by man's time scale it would be rather late but if by God's then soon could mean next week. A Thousand years is but one day to God. It could happen to night no one knows and that drives us all to be watchful.
    MB
     
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  8. Lodic

    Lodic Active Member

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    Since this was written to Believers in order to give them hope and a good idea of when to expect what was to come, this has to be "soon" by our sense of "soon". If "soon" can be interpreted to mean "by God's standards, so it may really mean thousands of years", that would just serve to confuse both the original audience and today's readers.
     
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  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The thing is He hasn't come so aren't you confused now? It has to be according to God's time scale it is the only thing that makes sense to me.There are a lot of things we don't know the answer to but we will some day
    MB
     
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  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No, YOU'RE confused if you think this coming hasn't occurred yet:

    40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
    41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
    42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
    44 And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
    45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21

    You're REALLY confused if you think the Jews are still in charge of the vineyard.
     
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  11. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Oh, you peeked.
    There really is no getting around these verses. Our lives have been much simpler when we just took God at His Word.
     
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  12. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Now this is a connection I have not noticed. Thanks.
     
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  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    Hmm, why all these graveyards and undertakers I wonder
     
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  14. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Genesis 3:15, 1 Cor. 15:56 and Hebrews 2:14 and 15 are helpful here. The focus is on the crushing of Satan. But there is more to this than that. In Cor 15 we are told that death no longer has a sting. But the sting is not because of evil per se. It is ultimately because of the Law, a Law which Peter admitted no one was able to keep.

    "55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

    56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."

    Notice that this verse does not say that there is no longer death or sin. The beginning and end of this transitional ("fading away") period IMO started with the Crucifixion and tearing of the Temple veil and ended with the destruction of the temple.


    The Law can no longer accuse because the Law (the do-it-all-jot-and-tittle Law) can no longer be practiced.

    The Law accuses. Satan accuses. He is called the Accuser. The Jews, in the face of the ever-growing Gospel light of that last decade had become the Synagogue of Satan. But this would be another topic in itself.
     
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  15. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Please see my answer, Hank. Also I plan to add to it in a bit.
     
  16. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    1st Cor:15 - 50-52
    Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


    Three things:
    1. Notice the personal pronouns. Not a single "they" or "them".
    2. Both the dead and those living at that moment were to be changed. This is something I missed for a long time until it was pointed out to me a couple months ago.
    3. The change here is not just a class change (seated in the heavenlies type thing) but an actual change.

    Some Preterists don't believe this, but I believe the evidence from Scripture is inescapable.

    So when Paul said "Death, where is your sting?" I believe the answer is twofold.
    1. Everyone at that time was rescued from death.
    2. The Law can no longer accuse,being replaced with the Everlasting Gospel.
     
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  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Death, undertakers and funeral parlors still abound - to me this is one of the greatest arguments against preterism...
    Will it go on forever!? No preterist can tell me.

    Preterism is as the bible says - a cloud without rain...

    Sin and death - nothing changed after AD70. Widows continued to bury their dead sons, brothers, husbands.

    They/we continued to rot in the grave in spite of the promise of a body like His (FLESH and BONE) not subject to corruption neither here on earth or in heaven - assuming every promise has been fulfilled.
     
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  18. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    "No preterist can tell me."??

    Hank, the answer is not far away. Look up.

    Ahem, not the sky. Look at my posts above yours. This preterist DID tell you. Whether you listen or not is on you. : )
     
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  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Sorry asterisk - my baby brother is on his deathbed - like i said cloud, no rain.
     
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  20. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    As long as you write this I know that you have really processed what I wrote. Do you really believe nothing c
    I am sorry to hear this, brother. But our experience does not give the final say on reality. The Bible does.
     
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