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Saturday is the 7th day - the Bible Sabbath

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Mar 31, 2018.

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  1. I don't know and don't care

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  2. Yes it is - but it does not matter for Christians. Commandments are nailed to the cross

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  3. Yes it is - and Christians should honor it

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  4. Yes it is and it is the only commandment nailed to the cross

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  5. Nobody knows what the days of the week are as mentioned in the Bible - it no longer matters

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  6. It is but it dishonors God and denies the Gospel to keep the Bible Sabbath

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  7. Yes it is - but the Sabbath obligation in the Commandment is transferred to Sunday

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  1. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Was this your source, Philip Schaff's Commentary? - The Gospel of John and the Acts

    I will warn you about P. Schaff,

    "... On his journey Schaff stayed in England and met Edward Pusey and other Tractarians. His inaugural address on The Principle of Protestantism, delivered in German at Reading, Pennsylvania, in 1844, and published in German with an English version by John Williamson Nevin was a pioneer work in English in the field of symbolics (that is, the authoritative ecclesiastical formulations of religious doctrines in creeds or confessions). This address and the "Mercersburg Theology" which he taught seemed too pro-Catholic to some, and he was charged with heresy...." - Philip Schaff - Wikipedia

    Edward Pusey was part of the "Oxford Movement", a pro-catholic [most likely a Jesuit] movement within protestantism.

    "... By the end of 1833, Pusey began sympathising with the authors of the Tracts for the Times.[1] ... When John Henry Newman quit the Church of England for the Roman Catholic church around 1841, Pusey became the main promoter of Oxfordianism, ..." - Edward Bouverie Pusey - Wikipedia
    His connections with John Williamson Nevins, again betrays this connection:

    "... But under the influence of Neander, he was gradually breaking away from "Puritanic Presbyterianism", and, in 1840, having resigned his chair in Allegheny, he was appointed professor of theology in the (German Reformed) Theological Seminary at Mercersburg, and thus passed from the Presbyterian Church into the German Reformed Church. He soon became prominent: first by his contributions to its organ, the Messenger; then by The Anxious Bench—A Tract for the Times (1843), attacking the vicious excesses of revivalistic methods; and by his defence of the inauguration address, The Principle of Protestantism, delivered by his colleague Philip Schaff, which aroused a storm of protest by its suggestion that Pauline Protestantism was not the last word in the development of the church but that a Johannine Christianity was to be its out-growth, and by its recognition of Petrine Romanism as a stage in ecclesiastical development. To Dr. Schaff's 122 theses of The Principle of Protestantism Nevin added his own theory of the mystical union between Christ and believers, and both Schaff and Nevin were accused of a "Romanizing tendency".[1]

    ... Nevin characterized his critics as pseudo-Protestants, urged (with Dr. Charles Hodge, and against the Presbyterian General Assembly) the validity of Roman Catholic baptism, and defended the doctrine of the "spiritual real presence" of Christ in the Lord's Supper, notably in The Mystical Presence: a Vindication of the Reformed or Calvinistic Doctrine of the Holy Eucharist (1846) ......" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Williamson_Nevin#Biography
     
  2. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Nowhere in scripture [KJB] is ever the phrase "the Jewish Sabbath day" to be found, not in English [KJB], neither Hebrew [HOT], neither Koine Greek [GNT TR], but is always "the Sabbath of the LORD". Yet, even so, Jesus is the Jew, even the Lion of the tribe of Judah. So if you want to attempt to deride His day as "Jewish", you really mock His lineage, more than the day.

    Again, in technicality "Saturday" [pagan Roman time] is not the same as "Sabbath" [God's sacred time], though many use a simple designation to refer to it. I speak of the seventh day as God designated it, Sabbath.

    I do not follow sister Ellen G. White, I follow Jesus Christ, whithersoever he goeth, even as she, herself, did.

    Are the Testimonies for the Church, written out by sister Ellen. G. White, inspired by God? Yes. Same inspiration that was at work in Enoch, Abraham, Moses, David, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, etc., John, Peter, Paul, etc. It is dangerous to ignore, and even moreso to mock at a prophet of God [I warn in charity [1 Corinthians 13 KJB]]:

    2 Kings 1:10 KJB - And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.​

    2 Kings 2:23 KJB - And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

    2 Kings 2:24 KJB - And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    As for the last question, "... that Sunday worshipers will receive the "mark of the beast" in Revelation, and therefore be eternally damned?"

    The answer is, "Yes.", not because she said so, but because scripture [KJB] itself says so, but that is a lengthier study, as it takes time to identify the "beasts" of Revelation 13, what the "mark" is, where it is placed in "hand" and in "forhead", what the "seal" is, the timeframe of the events, who "Babylon the great" is, and so on.

    For instance:

    Revelation 14:6 KJB - And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    Revelation 14:7 KJB - Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    Exo. 20:11 KJB - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
    Revelation 14:8 KJB - And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    Revelation 14:9 KJB - And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

    Revelation 14:10 KJB - The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

    Revelation 14:11 KJB - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    Revelation 14:12 KJB - Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
    It is plain, that the "mark" is the not "keep[ing] the commandments of God", and not keeping "the faith of Jesus", and deals with "worship".

    Which commandments? The context told us in Revelation 14:7 KJB. The Ten Commandments, of which the central and holy commandment is the Sabbath Commandment.

    If we follow the type given to us in history, in the days of Ezekiel, we begin to see more:

    Ezekiel 8:16 KJB - And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
    This is speaking of in regards the Temple. The priests, 24 + 1, etc, were facing away from the Ark, the Throne of God on earth [the footstool], thus the location of where God dwelt between the cherubim, wherein was God's written law, the Ten Commandments, and were turned towards the east, facing the sun, a part of creation, worshipping it.

    They had turned from worshipping the Creator and His commandments, to worship the creation, and that which was prominent in it, the sun.

    The anti-christ power, would think to change the "times and laws" of the Most High God, and the Sabbath is both Time and Law [they also sought to change prophecies, additionally times, and other commandments, other laws]:

    Daniel 7:25 KJB - And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
    The Bible warned us to avoid the "change" movement, religiously and politically [run by Jesuits, to promote revolution, rebellion, ordo ab chao, order through chaos/revolution, they will reap far more than they sow, for in sowing to the wind, they will reap a whirlwind, a storm they cannot escape from, and they will reap what they sowed in abundance, some 30, some 60 and some 100 fold, woe unto them ...]:

    Proverbs 24:21 KJB - My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:
    Please notice the "future" tenses in the Maranatha quotations, as elsewhere, and please notice the conditions involving knowledge, a state law, etc. Also please be careful with Maranatha, as it is a compilation 'devotional' [not compiled by sister White herself] and not the original source material.

    This is simply a very brief response, as you asked me to respond to it.
     
    #42 One Baptism, Apr 2, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  3. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    We weren't talking about that, bud; rather about nature showing any uniqueness of the seventh day.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    God shows the directive for the seventh day.

    As noted in the OP

    So then nothing here about "streams cease to flow on Saturday"

    Exodus 20:10-11
    10 .. the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

    Or any other such "signs in nature" for the Bible Sabbath.

    Other than that 40 year period where manna did not fall on the Bible Sabbath
     
  5. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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  6. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    Show me the word "sabbath", "law", "commandment/s", "the 7th day" in the passages of Romans 14 KJB.

    Romans 14 KJB, deals with the days that "man esteemeth" among men, see Luke 16:15 KJB. God esteems His Holy day [Job 23:12; Psalms 119:126-128 KJB].

    The "day" in Romans 14 is associated with eating and not eating, among "men", which are days set apart for men for fasting/feasting, etc. The Jews had constantly fought with one another over which days were better to do this or that [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]. Some Jews decide that any day was fine to do any of those things, while others had specific days picked out for those things [see also the historical source the "Didache"]. Paul stated it didn't matter, and each was fine, so long as either side did it unto the LORD, to the glory of God, not for personal gain/prestige/notice [as the Pharisees had done], but that what mattered was brotherly love within the body, preferring one another. Connect Romans 14, to 1 Corinthians 8-10 KJB. There were issues with the Gentile believers purchasing food in the shambles [marketplaces] which may have been blessed or offered before idols, and some Jews, and possibly Gentiles believers which took offence at anyone partaking of those things. Paul stated that an Idol is nothing, but the persons for whom Christ Jesus died were of value, and therefore, regard the conscience of another, and cause no one to sin, even if what was eaten was immediately lawful to a person, but such freedom within God's law, not everything is always expedient, or best to do at all times. There were also Jewish beleivers in Christ who still under their vows, even Nazarite vows, and thus things of the vine in matters of eating and drinking would come into play as well. Just because Christ Jesus died on the Cross, doesn't negate their vow - they still had to carry out what they said they would do. If you Read Romans 1-13, the Law, the Ten Comamndments of God are spoken of and cited throughout, as eternal, as the judge of sin [Romans 7:7 KJB; in fact how did you know you needed as Saviour? What Law was transgressed by yourself? Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], and Romans 15-16 continue and complete this picture. God's Ten Commandments are Eternal [Psalms 89:34 KJB], His Sabbath from Genesis to Revelation, even into the New Heavens and New Earth [Isaiah 66:22-23 KJB].

    Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts. The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandmnents, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB].

    Colossians 2:14 - "ordinances"
    Ephesians 2:15 - "law of commandments contained in ordinances"
    Hebrews 9:1 - "ordinances of divine service"
    Hebrews 9:10 - "carnal ordinances"

    Colossians 2:16 - "in meat, or in drink"
    Hebrews 9:10 - "meats and drinks"

    Colossians 2:12 - "also ye are risen with him"
    Ephesians 2:6 - "raised us up together"

    Colossians 2:16 - "a shadow of things to come"
    Ephesians 2:7 - "in the ages to come"
    Hebrews 9:11 - "of good things to come"
    Hebrews 10:1 - "the law having a shadow of good things to come", "those sacrifices", "offered year by year"

    etc.
    It's easy to ignore the study that I posted on these texts already, which I wrote. It's easy to turn a willingly blind eye to evidence when it doesn't suit your own sins and rebellion to God, even to Jesus commandment to repent [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB].

    You might as well not read the Bible, since the NT is a lot of "paste" from the OT, and a lot of the OT is "paste" from previous prophets, see Samuel, Kings, Chronicles, Isaiah, Zechariah, etc, etc.
     
    #46 One Baptism, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  7. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    They'll try the 'covenant' route next - which will be no help to them.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    No problem - a lot of people don't like it when I copy and paste from scripture.

    Matt 19 lists "from the Commandments" and so does Romans 13 -- the same list.

    None of them (including Col 2 <the entire chapter> and Romans 14 <the entire chapter> ) lists "Do not take God's name in vain" or "Love God with all your heart"... but as we all know - they still apply.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    True. Trying to delete the Law of God from the New Covenant - includes a lot of "not looking at the New Covenant as it reads in scripture"
     
  10. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    After reading all that was written here, I will keep worshipping on Sunday, the day the the Apostles mandated that us Christians are to gather together to worship God in the form of Jesus Christ. On that same day I will have a glass of wine or two to help wash down my roast pork dinner and then a little while later it's off to bed so I can be well rested for work on Monday.
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Seventh Day Adventist = No Pepperoni Pizza

    I rather toast in hell.
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    everyone has free will - ignore whatever Bible details that have been brought up in favor of the Bible Sabbath if you wish. It is your choice.

    Nice creative writing at that point.

    But I think we both know you would - love have an actual text to quote instead of using "you" as your source.
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    As I said - everyone has free will - you can choose that if you wish.

    In any case the subject is the Bible Sabbath - not toasting in hell over Pepperoni Pizza
     
  14. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Bible Sabbath, yes for the Jews. But for us it is a new day. Read the following and stop persisting in following the Jewish command.

    Acts 20:7
    On the first day of the week, we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

    1 Cor 16:1-2
    Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

    And when Paul met with believers in Troas to worship and celebrate communion, they gathered on the first day of the week:

    Then look at the newly emerging Christian Church and it's historical record - worship was always on Sunday until what was it Bob, sometime in the 1840's? So you want us all to believe that God would allow a lie to be perpetrated (Sunday Worship) for over 1800 years until you folks came along? Nope, not believing that big fairytale, thank you very much!
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 56:6-8 gentiles specifically directed to keep the Bible Sabbath of Genesis 2:1-3
    Isaiah 66:23 all mankind specifically directed - and predicted to keep the Bible Sabbath in holy convocation for all eternity after the cross. "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship"
    Mark 2:27 - all mankind specifically targeted as the beneficiaries of the Bible Sabbath of Genesis 2:1-3

    By contrast - New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33 specifically for "The House of Israel"

    And then we have "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and Gentiles gather for gospel preaching and worship in the synagogues. Nothing at all like that "every week-day-1" for the week-day-1 crowd.

    And we all know it.
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    End of story... this was a one time event where the reason for it is given as because he intended to leave the next day,

    How much better for all the creative writing we see about week-day-1 had it said "on the first day of the week - the LORD's Day- we were gathered for worship as we are every Lord's day -- and Paul was speaking.."

    How instructive that this is what we do not find here.

    1 Cor 16:1-2
    Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money




    Having an actual text works better -- when you say that.

    Not even remotely true. .

    The church in Africa kept the Bible Sabbath
    The Seventh-day Baptists introduced this Bible Sabbath idea to Adventists

    Ethiopian Emperor Galawdewos (A.D. 1540-1559):

    "We do celebrate the Sabbath, because God, after He had finished the Creation of the World, rested thereon…and that especially, since Christ came not to dissolve the law but to fulfill it. It is therefore not in the imitation of the Jews, but in obedience to Christ, and His holy apostles, that we observe that day " (Quoted in Bradford C.E. Sabbath Roots, The African Connection. L. Brown and Sons, Barre (VT), 1999, p. 26).
     
  17. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    And he shows directives for NT Christians-- Romans 14:5-6, Colossians 2:16. [And I don't read the stuff you obviously paste.]

    Romans 14:5-6 stands. It needs no outside arbiter to tell anyone it does not mean what it actually says. And I'm not too likely to show you anything in the KJB; I don't worship a translation. If I did it would not be one done in honor of worldly king who equated any offense to him as an attack on God.

    The only reason I post on this subject is because Colossians 2:16 commands to not let anyone be the judge in regard to ... a number of things, including a sabbath day-- which is the exact reason you post ad nausem about this. You can try to set yourself up as a judge, but I refuse permission. Go play act if you please.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You are to keep on observing the Sabbath, but the rest if us are also free to worship on Sunday, as none of that matters, what really matters is now being a new creation in Christ!
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    "Judge not that you be not judged" is found before the cross - in Matthew 7. This is 'no change' pre-cross and post-cross.

    The Ten Commandments were in no way deleted before the cross - as almost every Christian knows (at the very least)

    Colossians 2 is not about deleting scripture -- it is about not "making stuff up"
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 56:6-8 gentiles specifically directed to keep the Bible Sabbath of Genesis 2:1-3
    Isaiah 66:23 all mankind specifically directed - and predicted to keep the Bible Sabbath in holy convocation for all eternity after the cross. "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship"
    Mark 2:27 - all mankind specifically targeted as the beneficiaries of the Bible Sabbath of Genesis 2:1-3

    By contrast - New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33 specifically for "The House of Israel"

    And then we have in Acts 18;4 AFTER the cross: "EVERY Sabbath" both Jews and Gentiles gather for gospel preaching and worship in the synagogues.

    Nothing at all like that "every week-day-1" for the week-day-1 crowd.

    And we all know it.

    And in Acts 15 we have the fact that "Moses is preached every Sabbath" as part of the "solution" to the early NT church crises regarding gentile Christians not needing to be circumcised.

    You speak as if you are writing scripture again... while ignoring every text in the post you respond to -- you knew that we could all see that right?
     
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