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Featured Seriously, why the KJV?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Sep 14, 2022.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The KJV is correct, ". . . Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. . . ." Not by the work of the baptism but in whom.
    1978 NIV, ". . . Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. . . ."
     
  2. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    I am not getting it. Are you saying being baptized is not a condition for receiving the Holy Ghost in Acts 2:38 in the KJV? What is that conjunction for in the verse? I am confused about your point.
     
  3. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Can someone who will not accept that Acts 2:38 is giving two conditions for receiving the Holy Ghost please find a verse or a text in the KJV where they will agree a condition is being set forth. I would very much like to see what others will accept as a condition. No one who has been posting comments so far has accepted the fact that two conditions are present in Acts 2:38 for the audience, who are all men of Israel, and those are 1) they must repent of rejecting and killing their own Messiah, which includes believing his resurrection from the dead, and 2) they must be baptized in water. It is what the text says and other texts in the Acts will demonstrate the same thing. I can think of three now, but if these commentators will not believe this one in Acts 2 then it is sure they will not believe the other three.

    My point is; men who hold to religious traditions will not believe the words they read in the scriptures if those words conflict with their presuppositions and preconceived ideas. I am proving it with Acts 2:38.
     
    #43 JD731, Sep 18, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Looking at the link from post 1 -
    I see that with the NIV and NASV they both omit some of the same verses
    My question - why do both versions omit those verses?
     
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You and other KJV-only advocates hold to religious traditions [KJV-only traditions].
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I am saying baptism is a work and not a condition to receive the Holy Spirit. It is for but not so that.
     
  7. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know but my guess is they, the verses in question, are not in the source manuscript. The NIV cannot be trusted at all because they have invented a brand new way of translating thoughts instead of words, but one can safely say the NASB faithfully translated their manuscript. This leads me to conclude they had a corrupt manuscript for their work.
     
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  8. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think there are conditions in KJV Acts 2:38 that includes baptism in water?
     
  9. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    It is "and" in your KJV as well as mine. The difference between you and me is that I believe it and you don't.

    Ac 2:37 Now when they (men of Israel - V 22) heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren (not Christian brethren but Jewish brethren), what shall we do?

    Here is the answer;

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    The gift of the Holy Ghost is how God applies the blood and washes the sins away. I did not say it but the scriptures said it.

    4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, (HOW?) by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    6 (WHEN) Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    7 (WHY)That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    here is a verse that some of your translations does not have in its purity.

    Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
     
  10. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Someone mentioned the NASB and in case anyone is interested, the NASB has two conditions in Acts 2:38 for the men of Israel to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. It is repentance and baptism in water.

    The gift is to Israel collectively but each individual member of the family must receive him personally. God views Israel as one man, born in Egypt of the flesh and with the opportunity now to be born again of the Spirit. See Ex 6 to read about God saying to Pharaoh that Israel collectively is his firstborn son.

    Acts 2 is "kingdom" speak. All the scriptures are about a kingdom on the earth. It will be established in righteousness and Jesus Christ will be King, but he must be Lord first, and every subject in the kingdom will have been born again prior to it being established. It will not be established by power or might or coercion, but by the choice of the citizen to accept the conditions of the King. All citizens must be born again. God will rule over them by ruling through them. He will be in each of his subjects as he was in Jesus Christ in the person of his Spirit. Israel will be the chief nation, the head and not the tail.

    Israel as a collective rejected Jesus Christ and the gift of the Spirit with only a small remnant believing and being baptized. God is working out his salvation through the Jews. Jesus said in John 4 that "salvation is of the Jews." The gentiles have the opportunity because of the Jews rejection of Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith is the only condition for us receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.


    NASB
    Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    This proves that no one , Greek speaker or no, no one believes the words that are written.
     
    #50 JD731, Sep 19, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You know nothing of the sort. The and's prove there are three distinct things being said.
    1) repent.
    2) be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness.
    3) you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Note, it is the gift.
     
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  12. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Active Member

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    once again

    In the Greek.

    Repent (second person plural) was a command given to everyone. the modifying 2nd person phrase is and you will be given the gift of the spirit

    Be Baptized is a 3rd person singular command. Given only to select individuals. The modifying phrase is for the remission of sin.

    since the command to be baptized is in reference to remission of sin. Those who RECEIVED remission of sin are the ones who are commanded to be baptized.

    The first group received the gift of the spirit. BECAUSE they had received remission of sin based on their repentance. So it is quite obvious Peter told EVERYONE to repent and they would receive the gift of the spirit. then on account of their already received remission of sin. Let those people be baptized.

    Someone mentioned the NASB. it is not correct either.. It is limited by the english language.. which is just further proof there is no perfect english bible.
     
  13. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    No, the context will not permit that interpretation of the text. The passage means what it says. It says the same thing in the Greek that it says in the KJV and other English translations. It has been translated by no one to say what you are advocating. You are being silly.

    The gentiles, to whom God opened the door of faith and whom God baptized with the Holy Ghost in Acts 10 had no such command to be baptized to receive the Holy Ghost. They received him upon believing the gospel that Peter preached. However, in or around the year 59 AD Paul met 12 Jews who were disciples of John the Baptist and had never heard of the gift of the Spirit. Following is the record;

    Ac 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
    2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
    3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
    5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
    7 And all the men were about twelve.

    I will ask this of reasonable people who can apply logic to a text. Were these Jews? The answer is yes. Was this 29 years after the resurrection of Jesus Christ? Does the text say they received the Holy Ghost before or after they were baptized in water? What else happened after they were baptized in water but before they received the Holy Ghost? Was this consistent with how all Jews received the Holy Ghost during the apostolic era of the beginning of the church of Jesus Christ? Why will men read this and then deny what it says?

    The text demands that we ask some questions and search out the answers, because God reveals his answers to those who will believe his words. He will reveal nothing to those who deny his words, like many on these forums.

    In Acts 2:38 he is telling these men of Israel to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Later I will post a third example of a Jew who repents and believes in the Lord Jesus but must get baptized in water as a condition for receiving the Holy Ghost. It, like the other examples, will be irrefutable to anyone who honors the scriptures and believes the words.
     
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    KEY WORD - Interpretation
     
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You do not seem to know what you are talking about.
    Water baptism is a work. Receiving the Holy Spirit is explicitly a gift.
     
    #55 37818, Sep 19, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
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  16. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    No, it is not a work. It is a condition for receiving the gift.

    So, a wealthy billionaire named DB Jones sends out a notice in a town called Smallville where he had grown up. The notice informed all the people by the name of Jones who lives on the South side of town from Elm St to Nicholas Ave to present themselves at the 2nd National Bank on Thursday because he has a gift of 5000 dollars for each one who will come. The notice continues to explain that those who come needs to enter in the bank at the double doors on the Southwest corner between 7:00 AM and 2:00 PM and wear a blue shirt and they will receive the gift of 5000 dollars.

    Does the conditions make this a work and does it nullify the 5000 dollars from DB Jones as being a gift to those designated? Inquiring minds wants to know.
     
    #56 JD731, Sep 19, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  17. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    How do you know that it says the same thing in the Greek?
    Are you claiming that you know NT Greek or that you are an authority on NT Greek?
     
  18. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    No, I looked at some of the translations and the translators have all missed the memo that EG got.

    You cannot get around this one. The passage and the doctrine proves that you fellows do not believe the words in the text, whether you are reading a translation or the Greek manuscript of your choice. The comments are making learned men seem stupid. (at the very least they are doing some stupid reasoning)
     
  19. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You continue to jump to wrong conclusions or make incorrect accusations.

    Disagreeing with your opinions or interpretations of a text would not be the same thing as not believing the words in the text. I have not stated anywhere that I do not believe the words in the text so you improperly try to put words in my mouth or mind that are not mine.
     
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  20. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    So, let's talk about the apostle Paul, who was Saul. He was a persecutor of the church of Jesus Christ and an uncompromising Pharisee. He was not a man who would repent and get baptized for the remission of sins and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. But in AD 37/38 he met Jesus Christ on the Damascus Road and was gloriously converted to Christ. It was there on that road that he repented and believed in Jesus Christ and his gospel. But Jesus Christ did not give him the gift of his Holy Spirit at that time. He would need to be baptized as the condition for receiving him into his body. How do I know that? Because I believe the words I read.

    Below is Paul's personal testimony.

    3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
    4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
    5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
    6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
    7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
    8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
    9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
    10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
    11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
    12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
    13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
    14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
    15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
    16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

    I call your attention to verse 16. This is the same formula as all the Jews were given. He had repented on the Damascus Road but he had not received the Spirit at that time. Why? Because baptism in the name of the Lord is the condition for the Jews to receive him into their bodies. In this passage Paul is using the metaphor of the baptismal waters of washing away his sins.The outward and inward is cleansed by the Spirit, the baptism of which is typified by the water that came out of heaven and is also that which is drank into the body to wash away inherent sins so he may dwell there.

    God always, I said always, uses the physical to illustrate the spiritual but it gives understanding to the spiritual and blinds those who will not see.

    You must believe the words. If you choose not to, you will remain blind.
     
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