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Shedding Light on the Length of Pre-Sun Creation Days: A Text-Based Approach

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by Ken Hamrick, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. Ken Hamrick

    Ken Hamrick Member

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    In the ongoing debate over the Genesis creation account, one supposed problem that seems particularly troublesome for many is the question of the length of a day prior to the creation of the sun (on Day 4). Since the sun is the means by which a day is usually measured, then it is objected by Old-Earthers that we are left without any sure understanding of what God might possibly mean by the term, “day,” when it is used to describe the first three days of creation. Here’s the text:

    Genesis 1 ESV
    1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

    6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

    9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

    14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

    Notice in verses 4-5 that God defined the idea of a day before there was a sun: “…And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.” God “separated” the light from the darkness. The introduction of light into a dark room does not separate the light from darkness but rather, it dispels the darkness. How then was the darkness separated from the light when God created the light? As it continues, the text informs us of the nature of this separation: “God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.” The separation of light from darkness refers to the separation of day from night, “And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.”

    It is that separation of light from darkness—of day from night—that marks off one day from the next. Thus, the account of God’s creating follows the pattern of creative activity during the period of light, followed by the period of darkness, which is followed by the dawning of the next day, which marks the completion of the previous day. The sentence, “And there was evening and there was morning, the first day,” does not mean that the morning was included in the first day; but rather, that the advent of morning ended the period of the first day. Each day is a chronological account of what happened on that day, with God’s creative activity happening during the daylight, followed by evening, and the full day ending with the appearance of the morning light.

    In this way, what the text clearly displays for us is the repeating of day and night (together making one full day) as[​IMG] the earth rotates. In the description of the fourth day, we come to understand more precisely how light is separated from darkness in such a way as to separate day from night: “And God said, ‘Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night…’ …And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night… to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.” It is by these lights that the day is separated from the night—in particular, it is by the sun (whose light is reflected by the much-less-luminous moon) that the light and dark sides of the earth are separated, and because of which the rotating earth experiences both day and night. Without the sun, we would have no period of daylight—all would be the continual darkness of night; but with the sun shining on the earth from its place in space, the darkness of the dark side of the earth is separated from the daylight of the light side of the earth (and the rotation spins off one day after the next).

    But does this really mean that before God created the sun to rule the day and separate the light from darkness, that there is no reasonable way for us to conclude that the length (or definition or nature) of “day” was the same as it was after the creation of the sun? In order to have a day of the same nature and definition, God would have needed only a light in space to shine on the earth, separating the light from the darkness on the earth—separating day from night—and of course, a rotating earth to move through the separated daylight and darkness to the dawning morning, repetitively. But, did God have this? What did God use to separate the light from the darkness prior to creating the sun? Look at verses 3 and 4: “And God said, ‘Let there be light,’ and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.” “And GOD separated the light from the darkness!” The text unequivocally puts GOD in the physical role that it later puts the sun in, that of separating the light from the darkness in such a way as to separate daytime from nighttime on the rotating earth. And the text goes on to declare that because God was separating the light from the darkness, then “there was evening and there was morning, the first day.” God Himself was the Source of light shining on the earth prior to the sun, enabling days to be experienced and incremented three times before there was any sun.

    God as a light so great as to provide daylight? What other Biblical support is there for such an idea? Look at Rev. 21, describing the New Jerusalem:

    Rev. 21 ESV
    23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25 and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there.

    There will be no night there because the glory of God gives it light—no need of a sun to shine on it. This text affirms that God can indeed (and will one day) provide a great enough light to provide daylight itself. It describes the light of God providing daylight continually, without any period of darkness, because the source of the light—God—is present on the earth (in the New Jerusalem). In order for there to be daytime and nighttime, the earth would need to rotate in the face of the light standing apart from it in space and shining on it, like the sun. And if God is capable of the former, He certainly is capable of the latter!

    Stand firmly on the Word of God!
    (Also posted here).
     
  2. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Notice the terms Day and Night are capitalized in the KJV as if they were two people. Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.

    It's because Jesus IS the Light of the first Day and darkness is the personification of the darkness, Satan.

    Each of God's Days is best understood as an Age since each is some 4.5 Billion years long in man's time. Here's why. Science has discovered that it was 180 Million years AFTER the beginning of our Universe at the end of the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 until the FIRST Stars formed and lighted up on the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16 Scripture and Science AGREE. It's proof of God.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Interpreting scripture based on science is never appropriate.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    IF God told us the Truth in Genesis, and He did, then Genesis must agree with the Truths discovered by mankind. Otherwise, we will stay with the theology of ancient men who lived thousands of years BEFORE Science.

    God tells us that in the last days before Jesus returns, that He is going to pour out His Spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth upon ALL flesh. Joe 2:28 Act 2:17 God is currently pouring out His Spirit of Truth through the recent discoveries of Science. Otherwise, NO unbeliever (or scientist) would hear His Truth.

    I have many references in Genesis which AGREE in every way with recent discoveries of mankind and NO evolutionist can refute a single one of them because God's Truth agrees with EVERY other discovered Truth. Amen?
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Science is not sure, it is man made. It changes all the time. It is never settled. God's word never changes, and was settled long ago.
     
  6. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Amen. Changeable Theories of Science are the things which change. Repeatable facts of Science do not. What happened was that God hid His scientific Truth, which will be discovered in the last days before Jesus returns, in Genesis. He told Daniel HOW to do it. Daniel 12:4 God hid it in the future and now we are here with the increased knowledge of the tenure of Humans on planet Earth.

    A good example is the Scriptural fact that the beginning of our Universe was on the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4 Science AGREES and has discovered that it was 180 million years from the big bang until the FIRST Stars appeared. https://www.nationalgeographic.com › news › 2018/02 › first-stars-univers...

    Did God get it right? Of course He did by showing that the FIRST stars lit up on the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16 Testable Science and Genesis agree. It's proof that only God could have written Genesis 3k years ago. Jesus is coming soon. Amen?
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Good luck with all of that.
     
  8. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Thanks. I now realize the difficulty of telling others what Scripture actually says instead of what many people THINK it says. Amen?
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No what you did is tell what science says not scripture. Nothing more than opinion.
     
  10. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Really. Would you like to see some recently discovered scientific Facts which were first written into Genesis? I must warn you that NO one, Christian nor Scientist has been able to refute a single one of them.
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Good luck with that.
     
  12. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Can anyone tell us HOW these recently discovered scientific facts got into Genesis? Of course not since it is proof of God.

    1. Genesis 1:21 shows that every living creature that moveth was created from water on the 5th Day. Science recently discovered the same. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/s...-ancestor.html Jul 25, 2016

    2. Genesis 2:4 shows that the big bang was on the 3rd Day and Genesis 1:16 shows that it was the 4th Day before the first Stars were made. Science recently discovered the same. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...-born-big-bang Feb 28, 2018 - The first stars lit the cosmos by 180 million years after the Big Bang,

    3. Chromosone 2 fusion shows that Adam, the first Human was first made, long before plants, herbs, rain, trees, or any prehistoric person. Genesis 2:4-7
     
  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Seem I was told that originally -only capital letters were used in writing.

    Would anyone be able to confirm that<?
     
  14. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    I'm sure that the KJV translators capitalized the names of Day and Night to represent their views 400 years ago. Here is confirmation:

    1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
     
  15. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    I added another proof of God below: Can anyone explain?

    5. Genesis 1:1 correctly shows that Water was not created. ALL physical matter came from the Heaven/Air and the Earth/Ground. The binary system was used by God from the beginning. It took Humans more than 3k years to learn the same. Amen?
     
  16. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, it's discovered a lot of things, and recanted and corrected itself, recanted again, corrected itself, etc., etc. I love science, but basing your interpretations on ever-changing theories is not a good idea.
     
  17. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    Depends on how you look at it. What I have found in Genesis is the agreement of Scripture with science, history, genetics and math, which is irrefutable in any way because it was authored by the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit. Does your view of Genesis agree in every way with everything learned by man in the last 3k years? To me, it's a Pearl of great price. Amen?
     
  18. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    No, what you've done is try to reconcile Scripture with modern naturalistic ideas. And there are numerous other interpretations out there trying to do that same thing.

    It's no different than the geocentric days, when geocentrism was mainstream science, and theologians read geocentrism into the Scriptures.

    Best practice is to leave scientific theories out of it, and read the Text in a logical straightforward way. Then you'll know what God is saying.
     
  19. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

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    Except man's science CHANGES.
     
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  20. BenWest

    BenWest Member

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    False, since I cannot find another view which shows the AGREEMENT of Scripture with every other discovered Truth of mankind. IF God's Truth in Genesis IS the Truth, then it MUST agree with the factual discoveries of mankind or you don't understand Genesis. Only the people of the last days with the "increased knowledge" available today can understand Genesis. Daniel 12:4
     
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