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Featured Should Churches borrow money?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Reynolds, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Should churches borrow money to build bigger sanctuaries? I say no. What is your opinion?
     
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Agree.
     
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  3. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I don't know that it should be an absolute prohibition, but pretty close to it. I've seen too many churches left with strangling debt. Preacher Smith comes to town and attendance jumps from 75 to 300, so the church builds new facilities to accommodate all the people. The Preacher Smith goes to a bigger church, attendance drops and the 75 people are left with the debt as the newcomers melt away.
     
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  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I have observed that happen many times.
     
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Instead of building a bigger building - I would suggest - starting a mission church.
     
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  6. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    That seems to me like the way it should work.
    What has me wondering about this is the fact our church is about to vote on a new building program. We have supposedly "outgrown" our sanctuary. It seats a little over 400 and we run about 300. We only have one service because two services would "divide the church into separate groups that rarely see each other." So, we need to go out and borrow a few million for a new sanctuary. Its not really setting too well with me.
     
  7. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    No, they don't need the debt, and often don't need the building. Starting another church, as Salty mentions, is a better solution. Interesting that you mention "We only have one service because two services would 'divide the church into separate groups that rarely see each other'." I wonder how many of the 300 actually "see" each other in any kind of meaningful way? That's one reason that two churches would be better than either one bigger church in a bigger building or one church having two separate churches. If it is going to be two churches in practice, why not make it so in fact?
     
  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I fully agree. Churches around here don't plant other churches. They did 100 years ago, but not any longer. They try to get big. Now off shoot churches pop up when the nasty church splits happen, but churches are never willingly planted by other churches. About 20 years ago the association planted a church, but none other than that.
     
  9. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    At the moment I can think of only one time that I remember in this area when a church organized a mutually agreeable division that led to a church plant in another area of the same city. Plenty of "plants" from splits, though, unfortunately.
     
  10. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Active Member

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    I understand what you all are saying, but respectfully disagree.
    You say that churches shouldn't borrow money, is that just for existing churches? Or can new churches borrow money for a building?

    If you say you think they can borrow for a first building, you really are not opposed to borrowing money.

    Can an existing church borrow money to build an educational wing for more SS space? Again, if you say they can, you really are not opposed to borrowing money.
    I graduated from Tennessee Temple. They did both mission churches as well as building bigger buildings for both worship center and for SS.

    I think it has to be a on a church by church basis.
     
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  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    There probably are exceptions. The borrower becomes servant to the lender. The church becomes a slave to the debt. Outreach, missions, and community aid become secondary to the bank note.
    Why not save up money and then build as you have money to pay for it?
     
  12. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Active Member

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    I guess what I am saying is that as I read the responses here, you are saying "No borrowing money!" What I am saying is that there is no hard and fast answer to that.

    There is also no answer to how big should a church be? I can't see any Scripture that gives an answer.

    I agree that the borrower is servant to the lender. I am completely out of debt. I paid cash for my cars. I paid off my mortgage 5 years early. So I believe in debt free living. But unless you personally believe you should never borrow money, you can't say churches can't borrow.
     
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  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Have you brought up the possibility of starting a couple of mission churches?
    If so, what kind of response have you heard?
     
  14. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    No. It has all happened kind of suddenly. The deacons quietly appointed a steering committee a while back. Now out of the clear blue comes the recommendation.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I would think that the prudent take would be to be as debt free as possible, as debt payments would be taking away from church monies to use for the investing into the work of the Kingdom.
    I would also wait to see if the lord can raise up material supporet over time, and wait upon the Lord and his timing.
    Saying all of that, my own church is now in midst of a large building construction. We waited for several years, and have had many finanicl experts go over situation, and think we will ahve enough financial blessings in our midst to move forward. We also have taken the loan out with our Church's building fund, as it is lower %, and has built into it options to pay back shoter/longer.
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    This reminds me of a quote from a well know movie "If you build it they will come"!... I grew up in a family church and during good times we were blessed to have a hundred... At other times we had half of that and sometimes half of that... In this little intimate flock we got to know each other and the fellowship was great... Though the church has now closed I can look back over 50 years and name everyone in it... Can you do the same thing in your church?... Growth is fine in a church but just don't grow out of fellowship... I look at some of these churches and I'm saddened even in the church I now go to with my wife, that there is this lack of fellowship with larger congregations... The one we use to belong to had over 2,000 members and the one we belong to now has 200... There is more intimacy and fellowship in the 200 compared to the 2,000... Reynolds ask should we put ourselves in debt to build a bigger sanctuary?... You gave a little outline of your church and I like what Salty and agree with the other brethren, but again who is going to be left holding the bag so to speak?... Since this was tabled and came out of the blue, the church needs to act on it, as a church, and speak as one voice... Remember it is the Lords church and that is what some seem to forget... Since it is don't allow those to lord it over the Lords church, which at the time may seem like a good thing but in the long run will there be rejoicing or suffering because the church made the wrong decision... Brother Glen:)
     
    #16 tyndale1946, Aug 8, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Church building should be clean and in no need of immediate repair, but no need to have it made to look like a palace, as sometimes it tends to be!
     
  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Did you come to church to see the beauty of the building or the beauty of the Lord?... Some have in times passed worshiped with less... Brother Glen:)
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are the chuerch, so even if we have to met in the kitchen or bathrooms...
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Well that being the case I say we all meet in the kitchen... The preacher can set up his pulpit in the kitchen and while he feeds us the word, we can feed our face:Biggrin... I know how Baptist love to eat!... I know Jesus fed the 5,000 AFTER the sermon on the mount... Just a suggestion... Brother Glen:D

    Btw... You also mentioned bathroom... Well brother if you want to meet in there, you're going to have to go there alone!
     
    #20 tyndale1946, Aug 8, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
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