Should I Leave the Southern Baptist Convention?

I have a few reasons to leave the SBC now, but I wanted to discuss with you guys and my church leaders whether I should stay or not. Here are my current reasons for wanting to leave, which may expand honestly:

1. The denomination is too "big tent." I now believe that doctrine and moral teaching is of extremely high importance. A significant minority, if not a majority at times, of Southern Baptist churches teach or enforce things I could in no way support. (Charismaticism, a kind of evangelical "modern" womanhood, birth control, church discipline in only extreme circumstances, embrace of the nuclear family over and against the extended family, a turning away from the bible as the rock of all we believe in, a poor understanding of when or when not to go to war, an odd style of American nationalism, ecumenism, health and wealth over charity, and even socially liberal politics).

While many of these are rare problems, 2 John 9-11 warns us that we are not to even welcome false teachers, let alone go to church with them! Also, some of these are trends in the denomination that I am concerned will win out in the near to mid future. Or, as is the case with church discipline, they are broad problems with determined minorities fighting for a biblical position.

2. The denomination was founded Calvinistic with heavy attention to the Doctrines of Grace. I am Arminian, and honestly coming to arguments with people at church or in the conference about this issue seems foolish to me, since the denomination is most true to its roots when it allies with people, who do not believe as I do.

3. Of all the church leaders of church history, I most identify with Menno Simons, so I view myself as a Baptist who is ultimately descended from the Mennonites and their teachings. Teachings that are heavily altered in some cases to better conform with a literal interpretation of the bible. I do not identify myself with the Reformation and its theology all that much over and against the Mennonites. Here again the SBC doesn't seem to fit given its more Reformed roots.

Thanks in advance for any comments!

 

The SBC is not a hierarchical denomination. Member churches are still independent. The majority of the SBC is not Calvinistic. Founders churches are well represented and very vocal, but they are still a minority. I think you are going to have a hard time finding any local church that satisfies all your lines in the sand.

 

Good point. My church is Arminian so that isn't an issue and its not that I think Calvinists are entirely wrong or anything. I could easily tolerate their beliefs. My church is not really into church history, as much as I hate that.

The church will not rule out Charismaticism as being of the Holy Spirit, which is a big issue to me. The church is trending more liberal on divorce and the role of women. The church is not opposed to birth control and rarely talks about sex and marriage that much beyond social political issues. Church discipline is almost nonexistent, which is a HUGE issue for me. The church I attend embraces modern evangelical culture, so its views on the family is more modern and is not like mine. I worry my church is not clinging to the bible as much as it should, and I believe, with divorce and the role of women, it is letting the culture determine things more. We don't talk war much even though we have brave souls out there fighting for us. The church is increasingly ecumenical. The church doesn't have as much of a push for the working poor, orphans, widows, etc. as it should. The church is alright with nationalism and it is politically conservative but respects me, an independent.

Thank you so much for that comment salty. The thing is I now really see what is pushing me away. I started to look for another local church and I am not impressed with the other options so far in the SBC. I live in Orlando, FL.

 

Hey TCassidy, that's a low blow come on. I stepped into that TULIP argument knowing I had no fixed position, but if you get me talking certain other issues I have researched and am comfortable with I stick to my guns unless you beat me flat out with bible study.

 

I live 30 minutes from you. There are a number of conservative SBC churches in Orlando. Even some of the Calvinistic churches (like Faith Baptist Church, Orlando, and Orlando Grace Church, Altamonte Springs) are good choices. They are sound, biblical churches that do not beat you over the head with Calvinism. You are not lacking good choices.

 

Thank you for quick and honest counsel. The problem is I want a church that won't cross my red lines, the understanding of this I now have will help. Salty's comment led to a comment about what is really wrong in my local church, what I really need to do is address my red lines and figure out what they are. I will post on this in the future for this thread..

 

Thank you. I will need to check those out, and maybe I need to just ask what some good churches in Orlando are on some message boards. A still need to address my red lines and see why I feel they were crossed though, by my current church.

 

Forgive me for counseling you as I would my own adult child. Why do you have to post on this in a future thread? TCassidy is right. It is very odd that a person will change their theological positions so rapidly on a message board. You come across as pedantic. That is not a good thing. I do not see why you have this arbitrary time frame you need to establish. Steven, take the pressure off yourself.

 

No problem calling me out, whatsoever Reformed. I just wanted some time to think about what my red lines were, but I have already started to write that post. I shouldn't put things off though so I can go watch TV and grab a drink when they are this important. As for changing my mind based on the evidence so quickly, I think the real issue is I am very young compared to all of you it seems. I just don't have the knowledge or experiences you guys and gals do. I also believe flexibility on doctrine that is "disputable" is a huge virtue.

 

OK here are my red lines I now realize:

1. My church lacks clear church discipline.
2. The church is trending away from me on women, divorce, birth control, and the family.
3. The church is trending away from me on Charismaticism.
4. The church is fairly ecumenical, I'm not at all.
5. Some church leaders take issue with me at times for emphasizing good works so much when I feel I am just being true to 2 Peter 1:3-11.

 

I now see that my current church is indeed very bad for me. Thank you everyone. The issue is are my three original points in the OP a good reason to try another denomination? Am I allowed to warmly greet some of the people I will encounter in the SBC if I stay?

 

Nothing in this post is true

 

That would be very easy for me to do in the SBC. A major reason I am in the SBC, apart from familial ties, is because the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 is such an easy document for me to sign off on. It seems very "big tent" theologically compared to other denominations that stress a much tighter interpretation of the bible that I view as in error in some cases.

However, what really got me here are two things. One very personal that I cannot go into online. The second is that I found 2 John 9-11 and soon after other verses like it. I see those verses as a challenge to forsake anything that is not of pure doctrine, excepting disputable matters. For instance, for now I could be in a church that teaches the Doctrines of Grace if they allowed me to be Arminian without incident. However, the issue is my five red lines, which I can explain to get better feedback in this thread.

1. The church is against me on the issue of prophecy now. I used to be charismatic as you know. I am now out of that damnable cult thanks to you and this board TCassidy. Thank you all again! However, my pastor and the church still supports the modern Charismatic gift of prophecy and other sign gifts if they are practiced "biblically." They use Wayne Grudem's text on prophecy for doctrine.

2. The church and I have been increasingly far apart at Bylaw meetings on the role of women and divorce. We now have women as ministry leaders of all types except Deacon and Pastor. We also look over divorce when picking church leaders. I have had to recuse myself form certain ministries because I would not put myself under the authority of a woman. The church's culture also accepts family planning, which is anathema to me.

3. The church is fairly ecumenical, even when it comes to any and all Christian denominations except Mormons it seems. I have been told straight up that denomination doesn't matter by a number of people, including church leaders. I subscribe to the idea that there is a church of Jesus the Christ and church of the Antichrist at work in church history. A Mennonite and fundamentalist viewpoint based on passages primarily in 1 John. To be told that the church of the Antichrist himself, currently the high church and the mainline at least, is no different than the church of Jesus the Christ is beyond my ability to tolerate.

4. My church feels like it does not teach the avoidance of sin in the life of a Believer properly. By this I mean that I have been told by church leaders that the judgment for Believers has no real punishment to it and is just God explaining how disappointed but not angry He is with us. This is quite against the "as through fire" bible reference I keep getting when I bring up the subject with anyone on BB. Also, this teaching on sanctification goes against the bible repeatedly when it talks of making every effort to not sin. This is anathema to me and I am convinced it is leading others astray who are culturally churchgoers.

5. My church lacking clear church discipline is a humongous issue to me that is unlikely to get any better. That is unless I turn into some church discipline reformer as has happened at other SBC churches I have read about, which I considered but not for this church given the other red lines.

Wow, I get it, just leave this church and continue to debate whether to hop denominations.

 

I may be just too inside my head most times . What is in error in the OP?