How is this making a false claim about grammar?
That's right... It isn't. But, I have noticed since I've posted these sources, you seem to only have the personal attack left--showing you never had a leg to stand on in the first place.
The Archangel
Sin Laid On Jesus... A Sermon by C. H. Spurgeon
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by tyndale1946, Jul 25, 2022.
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The Archangel Well-Known Member
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Since several scholars agree that the word means to meet or encounter something, Archangel's pathetic claims demonstrate a willingness to create false charges. -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
Fact: You said: "You have been shown to be willing to make false claims concerning original language grammar" in a post that now appears to have been deleted. So, there's you quote. The charge isn't false.
The Archangel -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
The Archangel -
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Now he claims his cited source did not say "fell on." I kid you not. See post 41. -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
The Archangel -
The Archangel Well-Known Member
*HIPHIL—(1) causat, of Kal No. 1, a, to cause anything to fall upon any one. Isa. 53:6, הִפְגִּיעַ בּוֹ אֵת עֲוֹן כֻּלָּנוּ “he caused to fall upon him the iniquity of us all”.
Wilhelm Gesenius and Samuel Prideaux Tregelles, Gesenius’ Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament Scriptures (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2003), 666.
*The verb pāgaʿ appears forty-four times in the OT with the above range of meanings. The two basic meanings of the Hiphil are (1) “to intercede” (Isa 53:12; 59:16; Jer 15:11; 36:25); and (2) “to lay, burden” (Isa 53:6, “the Lord has ‘laid’ upon him all our iniquity”).
Victor P. Hamilton, “1731 פָּגַע,” ed. R. Laird Harris, Gleason L. Archer Jr., and Bruce K. Waltke, Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Chicago: Moody Press, 1999), 715.
*The Septuagint uses παραδίδωμι for פָגַע in Isaiah 53:6. παραδίδωμι is used "as a legal technical term for passing someone along in the judicial process hand over, turn over, deliver up"
Timothy Friberg, Barbara Friberg, and Neva F. Miller, Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, Baker’s Greek New Testament Library (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 2000), 295.
*Hiph. 1. cause to light upon, Pf. 3 ms. הִפְגִּיעַ c. acc. rei + ב pers. Is 53:6.
Francis Brown, Samuel Rolles Driver, and Charles Augustus Briggs, Enhanced Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1977), 803.
*So what has happened? The consequences have fallen on the Servant. This is not accidental; the text says explicitly that God has made this happen. What a mystery! The conventional thought of the day said that if a person suffered it was because God was bringing his iniquity on him (Num. 32:23; Ps. 40:13 [Eng. 12]). Here God has made this person suffer for the iniquity of “all of us.” Who can this person be?
John N. Oswalt, The Book of Isaiah, Chapters 40–66, The New International Commentary on the Old Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1998), 389. (Emphasis mine)
*The Hebrew verb paga‘ means “to meet” “come upon” (cf. Exod. 23:4), often in either the sense of entreat (e.g., Gen 23:8) or encounter with hostility (e.g., Exod. 5:3). Thus, in the causative stem, the verb means “to cause x to come upon y” as it does in Isaiah 53:6: “and Yahweh caused the (הִפְגִּיעַ אֵת) iniquity … to come upon (ב) him.
John D. Meade, Part 4: Who Does the Servant Intercede For? (available from: Part 4: Who Does the Servant Intercede For? by John Meade Accessed 31 July 2022).
The Archangel -
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The Archangel Well-Known Member
Again, I didn't "Falsely" claim anything. You should really think twice about continuing to call me a "liar."
The Archangel -
*HIPHIL—(1) causat, of Kal No. 1, a, to cause anything to fall upon any one. Isa. 53:6, הִפְגִּיעַ בּוֹ אֵת עֲוֹן כֻּלָּנוּ “he caused to fall upon him the iniquity of us all”. [To fall upon means to encounter]
*The verb pāgaʿ appears forty-four times in the OT with the above range of meanings. The two basic meanings of the Hiphil are (1) “to intercede” (Isa 53:12; 59:16; Jer 15:11; 36:25); and (2) “to lay, burden” (Isa 53:6, “the Lord has ‘laid’ upon him all our iniquity”). [Thus the HIPHIL meaning agrees with my view]
*Hiph. 1. cause to light upon, Pf. 3 ms. הִפְגִּיעַ c. acc. rei + ב pers. Is 53:6. [to light upon means to encounter]
*The Hebrew verb paga‘ means “to meet” “come upon” (cf. Exod. 23:4), often in either the sense of entreat (e.g., Gen 23:8) or encounter with hostility (e.g., Exod. 5:3). Thus, in the causative stem, the verb means “to cause x to come upon y” as it does in Isaiah 53:6: “and Yahweh caused the (הִפְגִּיעַ אֵת) iniquity … to come upon (ב) him. [Agrees with Van's view]
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The Archangel Well-Known Member
I can't help but notice you only posted a partial list.
*HIPHIL—(1) causat, of Kal No. 1, a, to cause anything to fall upon any one. Isa. 53:6, הִפְגִּיעַ בּוֹ אֵת עֲוֹן כֻּלָּנוּ “he caused to fall upon him the iniquity of us all”. [To fall upon means to encounter][Thus the HIPHIL meaning agrees with my view] False. Notice this part: (2) “to lay, burden” (Isa 53:6, “the Lord has ‘laid’ upon him all our iniquity”). It does not agree with your view.
*The verb pāgaʿ appears forty-four times in the OT with the above range of meanings. The two basic meanings of the Hiphil are (1) “to intercede” (Isa 53:12; 59:16; Jer 15:11; 36:25); and (2) “to lay, burden” (Isa 53:6, “the Lord has ‘laid’ upon him all our iniquity”).
[to light upon means to encounter] False.
*Hiph. 1. cause to light upon, Pf. 3 ms. הִפְגִּיעַ c. acc. rei + ב pers. Is 53:6.
[Agrees with Van's view] False Notice: Thus, in the causative stem, the verb means “to cause x to come upon y” as it does in Isaiah 53:6: “and Yahweh caused the (הִפְגִּיעַ אֵת) iniquity … to come upon (ב) him.
*The Hebrew verb paga‘ means “to meet” “come upon” (cf. Exod. 23:4), often in either the sense of entreat (e.g., Gen 23:8) or encounter with hostility (e.g., Exod. 5:3). Thus, in the causative stem, the verb means “to cause x to come upon y” as it does in Isaiah 53:6: “and Yahweh caused the (הִפְגִּיעַ אֵת) iniquity … to come upon (ב) him.
Again, I have NEVER been arguing that Jesus does not bear our iniquity. I've only been arguing that the Hifil stem of פָגַע does not mean "Encounter" as you wrongly claim. "Encounter" has an active meaning. "Lay upon" does not. There is a huge difference.
Now, you're demonstrating a fundamental disconnect with English, too....
The Archangel
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The Archangel Well-Known Member
The Archangel -
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5 point Gillinist Active Member
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Alan Gross Well-Known Member
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tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Alan Gross Well-Known Member
Happens all the time.
אני חכם
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