Well, a former Southern Baptist Church in my hometown (which is smack dab in the middle of the Bible Belt), baptized to opening gay men a few years ago. Fortunately the county Baptist Association immediately kicked the church out of the association.
When the pastor was interviewed on TV he sounded more like a pastor from a very liberal denomination and not Baptist at all.
Sodomites and Baptists
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Rubato 1, Apr 8, 2006.
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Your knowledge and understanding of the SBC and it's polity is painfully lacking. First of all we do not have 'delegates'...we have messengers...big difference.</font>[/QUOTE]AVL...A matter of symantics and my typing at 3 am without sleep. Either way your messengers were given that position by the church. I fully understand the SBC having been in it back in the early 80's and then again for the past four years. So, until you know what you're talking about, you might want to close your pie hole. :eek:
[quote}Maybe you should read the BFM 2000 and the resolutions that have come out of the SBC before you comment on what you do not know anything about. [/QUOTE]
I have read it, several times, and even helped form a church in the area that intends to go SBC, of which I am ashamed because of it's liberal leanings. But, no, in case you're wondering, it's not one of those that supports homosexuals in the SBC. It's more of a charismatic/apostolic type thing. Glad we left that mess.
You can try to goad me into giving you the names if you wish, but, it's not going to help you. The local conventions and the state conventions have known about these churches for some time. It would be hard for me to believe that the headquarters for the SBC wouldn't have been notified by other churches. Yep, the SBC has surely been rescued from liberalism! I find that hard to believe. If it ever was, it has declined since that time that it split, and now the SBC is getting far closer to being what they got rid of. -
AVL...if the SBC is so reprobate, liberal, and beyond any form of redemption...why were you in it for the past four years?
And I'm still convinced that the reason you won't "help us" in knowing of even three SBC (not CBF) churches that affirm gays, is because you can't back that up. Undocumented claims don't hold much validity.
Buddy, you seem really, really angry. -
That was supposed to have said "two openly gay men..." sorry!
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:eek: :D -
Me? Angry? I think not...Another typical ploy from the SBC playbook. Keep on trying, rbell. Maybe one day, you'll get it right. -
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***Personal attack deleted***
The thing is that when I read your retorts, you don't sound like you know anything about Baptist polity at all...you go on about the SBC "Cramming" the Holman bible down our throats. GEE, I have been a pastor in the SBC for 16 years...never once has the SBC tried to cram anything down my throat...do you even understand what a convention is and how it works? DO you know anything at all about local church autonomy. DO you understand in the least bit the difference between congregation and Presbyterian (federalist) polity? You go on and on with your pseudo conspiracy theory approach about Southern Baptists, their liberal leaning ways, their openness to all things wrong, yet in your profile you say you are Southern Baptist and at the same time you say something about starting a church and 'helping' them become southern Baptist, and then I don't know what you meant by the Charismatic/apostolic thing. why in the world would you be a part of and help others to be a part of something that is so wrong? Again, credibility.
Again, brother...how about some facts...not just accusations that have no backing.
**Personal Attack deleted**
Moderator warning!! Posters will conduct themselves in a Christ like spirit or be subject to suspension!
J
[ April 18, 2006, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ] -
AVL,
my friend, there's a whole lot of stuff in this world more likely to tick me off than a BB thread...water off a duck's back here.
God's on His throne, my church is absolutely rockin', and folks are coming to Jesus. I couldn't be happier. So whether you respond to my questions or not, I'm cool either way... :D
I will restate a question you didn't address: if the SBC is so reprobate, liberal, and beyond any form of redemption...why were you in it for the past four years? -
Me? Angry? I don't think so. But, I can tell you I have better things to do with my time than to go round and round with someone who defends the SBC tooth and nail. I know a lot more about church polity than you think..and I know a lot more about the SBC than you think. Continue to yammer on all you want...I'm done with this thread. As stated, I've got better things to do with my time than to waste it here being told I can't defend my position. Apparently it does tick you off because I won't tell you the names. All I can say is "Oh well". I'm glad the SBC works for you....it doesn't for me. I wish you well, friend.
[ April 18, 2006, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ] -
During our time in the SBC, we attended a very convservative SBC church. But, some events in the church started leading that church down the road to more liberal positions, and many of the people who were so-called fundamentalists were attacked and eventually chased away from their positions of leadership and staff in the church. Things continued to get worse in the church, and we had a minor split just after the building program was completed. Since we had moved out of town and the church was so far away, we joined a small country church (SBC...both were, not the other faction that split as you and the other brother have tried to imply several times). After several months in the church, events took place which gave a deacon more power, and the balance in the church turned. We were gone for six weeks because of my mother in laws hospitalization from a fall in her home, her hospitalization, diagnosis of terminal lung cancer (they gave her 45 days to live) and then her death. We were there for the funeral and some other legal matters, and when we came back at the end of the six weeks, we walked into a war in the church. The deacon had gained a majority of the control in the church and there was a major vote that evening on the changing of the church by-laws and constitution. The deacon packed the church, and his side won. The pastor and assistant left the church, and I was left as interim of the church. After three weeks, I was led out of there, praise the Lord! These people wanted to follow the deacon more than the Bible. We ended up with those who had split in forming a new church.
In the first few weeks and months, the new church was on the right track. But, our pastor started taking it down a road that wasn't Biblical. He later resigned, leaving the associate pastor, who was of a Charismatic/Pentecostal background as pastor. I was a non-staff preacher for the church because of it's size. This church started going down the apostolic/charismatic road, they adopted a constitution and bylaws that would have allowed divorced pastors, single pastors and in some cases women pastors. I had been on the constitution and bylaw committee. But, I was the only Fundamentalist on the committee. When I missed a meeting because of an illness in the family, before the document was presented to the church for confirmation as the one that they wanted to adopt, it had been changed to what I stated above.
They wanted to adopt "private prayer language" positions, and we didn't find that as scriptural, nor did several others who debated all the above items. At any rate, because we felt the church could be educated and possibly turn around, we stayed. The Lord hadn't told us to go yet. Plus, though we had voted to become SBC, we had no sponsor church to present us for membership, and were essentially an independent Baptist Church. We had recommended that they stay that way from the beginning, and knowing that it would take time to be sponsored, etc., and brought into the convention, we stayed. But, when the church took the leanings that were mentioned above, we knew it was time to leave, and the Lord opened the door for us to do so. Three to four weeks later, the church went defunct when the pastor resigned.
We had been visiting around in IFB churches for several weeks, and started attending Victory, and will probably be joining there in a few weeks. -
This is my final post on this subject. Apparently the Mods felt I was personally attacking AVL. I guess it is ok to use ad homonym attacks on the SBC and her church's and men like Johnny Hunt (another thread) but my comments were deemed as a personal attack. I will abide by the rules of the board and I offer my personal apology to AVL if my 'verbal sparing' seemed too abrasive. AVL...I apologize...I do not have to agree with you in order to dialogue and be your friend. I have read many of your posts and you and I are much more on the same page than one would think.
TO the moderator...a personal message would be appreciated on why my post was deemed a personal attack when earlier I was told to "Shut my Pie Hole", and that was not deleted...since I am new I would like to know what line I crossed.
Now I got to go and weed out the Homosexuals and women preachers in my convention (Just joking guys...everybody relax)
J -
JR, I didn't take it as a personal attack. I agree that we don't have to disagree to be friends and Brothers in the Lord. But, your apology is accepted.
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