It's idealistic in the extreme, and typical of a long, bygone, and presently unreal, Christian era.
In present-day terms, this sabbath-keeping is wishful thinking of day dreamers.
In reality it simply is unscriptural.
Sola Scriptura: week-day-1 vs Bible Sabbath
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Mar 30, 2016.
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
Reality begins with the Scriptural reality of “the day The Seventh Day is Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD”—not Sunday even though the first day of the week … is called the Lord's day: IT’S UNTRUE.
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Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" - for all eternity even in the New Earth according to the text.
In the OT - the liturgy of the organized church -- nation church, one true nation church started by God at Sinai with priestood appointed by God - included the use of animal sacrifices. In Hebrews 10 - the "once for all time" offering of Christ as sacrifice - ended the animal sacrifice "He takes away the first to establish the second" Heb 10. So instead of an ongoing perpetually confecting of the "body soul and divinity of Christ" in the mass - Hebrews 10 says it is a "once for all" sacrifice and with it ends the animal sacrifices -- according to that chapter. -
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And your own Pope John Paul II affirms this same point - the TEN Commandments still apply to the saints.
Col 2
18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? -
Interesting the creative ways that some are finding to 'get around it'.
The OP provides a Bible comparison. Sola Scriptura guys should love that!
But we do have "Holy Day of the Lord" -- In Is 58:13 - not pointing to week-day-1.
And we do have Christ himself saying He is 'LORD of" a certain day in Mark 2:28 -- but is does not say "Lord of week-day-1"
My point is - Bible details matter. -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
In any case this very passage and subject have been discussed numerous times (between you and me) on this very board. And you should remember that (if you have any honesty left in you) the debacle about it when I was the one who before anyone published it on internet including this very board, and the SDA REMOVED IT FROM THE NET ---AND YOU CONFIRMED ITS REMOVAL. It's all in the archives, Bob Ryan, right here in the BB archives, including your excuses for why the relevant passages from DA DISAPPEARED ON INTERNET when I exposed them for the world to see.
But they are still WRITTEN in the copy(ies) on your own shelves, pretender! And most probably have been replaced on internet as well. Check it up. I have finished with such humbug forever. Your Mrs EGW instructed you through the Holy Spirit to observe SUNDAY for Jesus' day of resurrection. I'm not quoting me. I'm quoting HER FOR YOU. -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
"The Lord's Day" ---'Heh Kuriakeh Hehmera'--- is "The LORDLY Day".
Why?
Read why in Exodus 15, in Genesis 2:23; 3:8-24, in 2Chronicles 23; 2Kings 11, in Isaiah 58, in the Gospels, et al.
Because: "The LORD is a Man of War"; because "the LORD TRIUMPHED GREATLY". Because "God raised Christ from the dead and exalted Him at his own right hand HIS HEAVENLY MAJESTY!" Because "when God raised Christ from the dead", it was "IN THE SABBATH'S FULLNESS". -
By contrast what I present in the OP may be compared to one person arguing that the Bible shows Jesus Christ to be "God on Earth" -- and another arguing that Peter was "God on Earth" - I think a sola scriptura review of the subject would show many texts pointing out that this works for Christ -- and by contrast does not work for Peter. (I am sure you would agree to this last example favoring Christ as well).
The retort of the form "yes it is hard to show Peter was 'God on Earth' from the Bible but that is like the difficulty in proving the Trinity' - does not work in the presence of Bible details.
in Christ,
Bob -
Does it ever end? -
BobRyan -
I read through a few of your replies. I am not certain you understand what, in the main, I was trying to communicate. I think you have tried to deconstruct a teaching on the principle of Sola Scriptura, but I am not getting the impression that you understand that principle. In other words, the OP doesn't properly apply it or use it to address the teaching.
Also, you used the reasoning my initial reply addressed when I asked if you held to the doctrine of the Trinity. You had said that the phrase "Christian Sabbath" does not appear in the Bible. Neither does the word Trinity. We are, I hope, men who have moved passed such reasoning that a phrase used must be present irregardless of the thing being there. The triune nature of God is evident in Scripture, as is a Christian Sabbath. And neither are without much debate.
The practice of Christians gathering, worshiping, et. on the first day of the week is well established in the NT. John calls it the Lord's Day in the Revelation. The Sabbath itself is a creation ordinance. I suppose if the Sabbath can be done away with, so can marriage! -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
You say I'm lying. Therefore you must know the chapters from Desire of Ages I'm referring to.
Now I ask you, does Mrs White say or does she not say the First Day of the week should be remembered forever on earth and in heaven or words to the exact same effect? Yes or No?
And does she give Jesus' resurrection for reason, Yes or No?
What do you answer? -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
Do you see the spaces in between the lines in my post above?
I guess you can guess what they are filled with withal. -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
There is not one instance in the NT of the “~practice of Christians gathering, worshiping, et. on the first day of the week~”.
Not one!
John does NOT in the Revelation call “~it… the first day of the week… the Lord's Day.~”
Not at all!
“~The Sabbath itself~”. is NOT “~a creation ordinance~”.
You got the idea from the SDA! -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
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Let's evaluate that claim "sola scriptura" --
1. There is not one NT or OT text saying "week day 1 is the Holy Day of the LORD" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Is 58:13. (AND we do not have ONE text in the NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the LORD's Day)
2. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says that "they met EVERY week-day-1 for gospel teaching" for both Jews AND gentiles but we DO have that for Sabbath in Acts 18:4-6.
3. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says "they met week-day-1 after week-day-1 " for anything - but we DO have that in Acts 13 and Acts 17 regarding Sabbath for both Jews AND Gentiles.
4. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "from week day 1 to week day 1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - but we DO have that in Is 66:23 for the Sabbath.
5. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "the Son of man is LORD of week day 1" but we DO have that in the NT for the Sabbath in Mark 2:28.
6. There is not ONE text in the NT saying "there REMAINS therefore a week-day 1 rest for the people of God" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Heb 4.
7. There is not ONE text in NT or OT saying "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" but we DO have that in Ex 20:8 for the Sabbath.
8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13
Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.
By contrast - case by case is evaluated for the subject of BIBLE statements regarding
1. Keeping some day of the week holy
2. A day of the week that God calls "My Holy Day"
3. A day of the week that God says will be kept by all mankind - after the cross - for all eternity
4. A day of the week where Christ says HE is "LORD" of it - specifically.
5. A day of the week that we are "commanded to keep" Holy
6. The subject of tweaking/editing/setting-aside one of the Commandments of God for the sake of church tradition.
There is no case in OT or NT where the term "Sabbath" regarding a weekly day of rest, is not applied to the 7th day of the week. And we all know it. No such thing as "weekly Sabbath -- and by that term this particular text means week day 1, or 3 or 5" -- and we all know it.
The comparison is not to "trinity" where we can see it in Matt 28.
Try this comparison between one claim that "Christ" was "God on earth" (A term not found in the Bible but we can find texts to show it in any case) and the idea that "PETER was God on Earth" -- using the same term not found in the Bible but applying it to Peter.
Yet even that example fails since SABBATH IS a term found in the Bible - and Sabbath applied to the 7th day - IS a teaching we DO find in the Bible.
Now for your two specific examples -- your claims are:
1. Example 1 - NT shows WEEKLY week-day-1 after week-day-1 and even EVERY week-day-1 worship services taking place. (Even if there is no actual command to do it).
2. Example 2. The NT Text actually says that week-day-1 is the LORD's Day.
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Both of those claims were illustrated in the OP - showing what we have in real-life in the actual Bible on those two points. But I will add that week-day-1 is not mentioned at all in Revelation chapter 1. There is only one place where "The LORD's Day" is specifically mentioned and that is Rev 1 - and it says nothing like "The seventh day is the Sabbath" -- or "week day 1 is the Sabbath" or "Week day 1 is the LORD's day" in that chapter -- as we all know.
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Are we simply "not supposed to notice"??
Jesus was born - we should remember that event - yet it is not a weekly event.
Jesus died for our sins and was raised -- we should remember those events but there is no weekly cycle at all for them. -
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
byGerhard Ebersoehn» Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:36 am
the Great White Lie, 'Desire of Ages' chapters 80 to 83 the whole of, in its acme in deception and fraud on
Page 789
What a day is this to the world!
Page 790
Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. Christ was to complete His work, and fulfill His pledge to "make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. All power in heaven and on earth was given to the Prince of Life, and He returned to His followers in a world of sin, that He might impart to them of His power and glory.
While the Saviour was in God's presence, receiving gifts for His church, the disciples thought upon His empty tomb, and mourned and wept. The day that was a day of rejoicing to all heaven was to the disciples a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity.
Sunday and Sunday sacredness and observance according to SDA doctrine born and inaugurated in the very courts of Sanctuary of God in heaven.
THIS, BobRyan, is what you say I am lying about.
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