Apocrypha books were written after the books of the Hebrew Bible. And in all those books can be found either a teaching that is simply not true or contrary to the word of God. I do not have a handy list. Examples can be found.
Someone help me out here.....
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Scarlett O., Apr 1, 2019.
Page 2 of 4
-
George Antonios Well-Known Member
Was the Septuagint the Bible of Christ and the Apostles? -
Bunch of hooey from a well known KJVOnly source, ultimately going back to Ruckman.
-
George Antonios Well-Known Member
You say that as if those were bad things.
It would be more helpful to counter the evidence than unexplainably thus dismiss it. -
Put another way: *who* among legitimate (non-KJVO) scholars agrees with the KJVO/Ruckmanite position regarding the nonexistence of the LXX in the BC period?
-
George Antonios Well-Known Member
What is "legitimate"? We probably have differing criteria for that. We still do not have any B.C. copy of the Septuagint. All scholars confess as much.
-
This is so rare a position (Rukaminite) as to be questionable.
-
George Antonios Well-Known Member
Well, I understand that. It's a natural reaction. But such skepticism must also be tempered with the understanding that many a time the majority was wrong about many an issue. In the Bible, the scribes, who were in the majority, were almost always in the wrong. The fishermen were right. I'm not saying that the minority is always right. As far as I'm concerned, and after sincere prayer and research, I am satisfied that most (not all) scholars are erudite fools and that even the saved ones approach the Bible with the humanistic/naturalistic textual criticism mindset. I cannot account for the majority position when:
A) there are no B.C. manuscripts (and not even 1st century A.D. manuscripts) for a supposedly famous Bible version. I just don't get how they can be so certain.
B) The O.T. in only that version mysteriously matches the difficult N.T. references to it - as if manipulated to do so
C) the historical background for that version is a fictitious Egyptian story
D) I'm Middle Eastern man who preaches to Jews and can't imagine Jews using a Greek O.T. Some would rather die. Literally.
E) Given the negative Biblical connotations of Egypt (I'm reasoning spiritually here, not humanistically) I can't imagine Christ quoting an Egyptian Greek version. Christ wouldn't even countenance the Greeks who sought him in John.
F) the Septuagint is hopelessly messed up in many a place -
A. There are BC fragments of the LXX. If we happily use papyri fragments to show the antiquity of the NT books, seems we should give the LXX the same courtesy.
D. Ascribing the same opinions that modern day Jews have to Jews 2000 years ago seems unwise.
E. Ah, the old everything related to Egypt must be tossed out angle. I'm not buying it. -
What were Josephus and Philo using in the first century AD? Hint #1: it wasn't always the Hebrew OT. Hint #2: it often agreed more with the LXX than any other possibility.
Ruckmanism's claims regarding the LXX are phoney, and only intended to promote KJVOism.
(This area of discussion should be moved to the translations and manuscripts section). -
George Antonios Well-Known Member
Which fragments? Attested by who?
It may seem so, but not to Jews. Not to religious Jews.
You don't have to buy it. It's Biblical and it's free :) -
Rather than continue being wearied by the KJVO Ruckmanite nonsense, I suffice to close with a QUOTE (emphasis added) from the Jewish Encyclopedia online:
"It is *more than probable* that the whole of the (Hebrew) Bible was translated into Greek *before* the end of the 2nd century BC."
www.jewishencyclopedia.com, under "Bible translations" and "Septuagint"
Q.E.D. -
George Antonios Well-Known Member
"Rather than continue discussing evidence presented by a man that believes the Bible and with whom I disagree, I will quote lost men who don't believe the Bible and rest me on their mere expression of a probability."
-
-
And please cite the verse that says the LXX didn’t exist prior to the 2nd century AD. I must have missed that one. -
"Yes sir, Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie -- I put that envelope under that pile of garbage." -
Papyrus Rylands 458 fragments of a LXX is dated by the style of Greek writing to tbe 2nd century B.C.E. prior to the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
-
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
-
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
So why were they in the Septuagint (LXX)? I don't think that answer is recorded in history, so we must guess. But But my take on your question is that the LXX is:
1. OT era stuff, not relevant to the church.
2. Not in Hebrew, so not considered authoritative by the churches.
3. Much of the LXX is really strange, and obviously not spiritual. Just read "Bel and the Dragon," and you'll know why sensible Christians agree that the Apocrypha is not part of God's Word. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Page 2 of 4