I have heard so many different explanations for what others say the soul and the spirit are. It really is so simple. Our mind, our feelings, our conscious, that is our spirit. If anyone gets a modern English version Bible, such as the NIV, you can easily see that whenever the bible talks about our soul, it is at that time concerned with our living body (our physical living body with its spirit). Whenever the bible talks about our spirit, it is concentrating on our spirit, our spirit whether in our body or out of our body. Whenever the bible talks about our body, it is speaking of a living physical body or a dead physical body. A soul is a physical body alive with a spirit. The body is dead without the spirit (James 2:26), and the spirit lives on after death of the body.
Refer to 1 Thessalonians. We can see that God will sanctify us through and through, our whole spirit (spirit without a body), soul (spirit and body together), and our body (with or without our spirit/dead or alive). God truly sanctifies us through and through.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I just wanted to share all that with others, and I hope we have agreement.
Soul and Spirit
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Moriah, Feb 22, 2012.
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In doing some research on the spiritual gift of discerning spirits I was using the Complete Word Study Dictionary. It has an extensive write up on the word Spirit (Strong's # G4151). In that definition it says the soul is the intangible part of man that allows him to interact with the world (think, process information, etc). It also describes the spirit as the intangible part of man that allows him to interact with God.
I like this as it maintains a proper delineation of three parts that make a person (soul, spirit, and body). The English language does use the word soul to talk about physical people, but that does not rightly address the meanings of the original Greek words used in the writing of the NT. Also, maintaining the distinction of the three helps us stress the fullness of the importance of being holy. What we do with our body matters. What we think (soul) matters. What or who we worship matters, as does how we worship (spirit). -
Thank you for your reply. Since you have read my post, you know that I do not believe there are three, as you and Strong say. There is only three after we receive the Spirit of God. The Bible says the soul is dead without the spirit. Since the soul is dead without the spirit, then how do you get more than two? -
I understand what you believe.
If you look into verses like 1 Thes 5:23 (which you posted in the OP) and dig into the original language and definitions you will find the distinctions. Admittedly most people do not go that far in their study and are happy to hang their hats on the English words. It is this same reason why we so often have a narrow catchall definition for sin when the Bible talks about sin, iniquity, and transgressions.
I encourage you to dig in. I am sure it will bless you. -
The soul is a body with a spirit. When the Bible speaks of the body, it could be about a body alive with it's spirit, or it could be about a dead body, a body without it's spirit. When the Bible speaks of a person's spirit, it could be speaking of the person's spirit with, or without the physical body. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Isaiah says that our sins have SEPERATED us from our God - Isa. 59:1-2 - and we are "dead" in tresspasses and sins (Eph. 2:1) or SEPARATED from God by our sins rather than cessation of existence.
Hebrews 4:12 says that nothing is hidden from God and that the Word of God is able to distinguish between "spirit and soul" just as it is able to distinguish between "intent and thoughts" of the heart and "joints and morrow." Hence, the Word does distinguish between the "spirit and soul."
1 Thessalonians 5:23 is a prayer for the MORAL ("blameless") sanctification of the "spirit" and "soul" and "body" and therefore there is a moral application to both spirit and soul.
The "spirit" of the lost man is existing before new birth as it is the "spirit" of man that is born again - "that which is born of Spirit is spirit" - John 3:6
The new birth is not bringing the human "spirit" into existence but is rather the "washing and renewing" of the human spirit from the defilement of sin. It is "renewing" it in the "image of God" and restoring it to spiritual UNION with God as it is that aspect of man where the Holy Spirit dwells within man.
The temple has an outer court (body) and holy place (soul) and holy of holies (spirit) and God dwells in the innermost part of the temple (spirit). Regeneration simply cleanses the inner sanctuary of man from demonic influences, and provides a sanctified sanctuary within man for The HOly Spirit to dwell.
God has provided us with three distinct seats of consciousness:
1. Our body is the seat of outer world consciousness through five senses
2. Our Soul is the seat of self-consciousness - mind, will, emotions
3. Our Spirit is the seat of spirit world consciousness -
Just as God is "spirit" and they who worship Him must worship Him in "spirit" so also Satan is a spirit and they who worship him also worship him in "spirit" as the human spirit is the medium for fellowshipping with the spirit world both good and evil. The spirit is where the faculties of conscience, intuition and communion exist. -
Thank you for your reply, Biblicist. I want to take what you said slowly, that way I can see exactly where we start to differ, if we do.
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1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB) "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord."
Spirit = the spirit of man is his eternal nature made in the image and likeness of God. Fallen due to sin but renewed by the finished work of Christ.
Soul = The mind, intellect, emotions, and will of man. A function of the flesh but existing apart from it.
Body = The body of this flesh, in which dwells no good thing, to be redeemed and glorified at the return of Christ. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Second, Paul is talking about their present state of existence as "spirit, soul...and body" being preserved until the coming of the Lord which He expected during his own lifetime.
1. As a type of the Triune God:
a. Outer court was visible to the world - The incarnate Son of God - altar of sacrifice
b. Inner court was invisible to the world - The Holy Spirit - oil represents The Spirit, Altar of incense power of the Spirt - Rom. 8:26-27
c. Holy of holiest - The Father on His throne.
2. As a type of triune man:
a. Outer court was visible to the world - the human body
b. Inner court was invisible to the world - the soul
c. Holy of holiest was invisible to the world- the spirit - where the Holy Spirit dwells.
The Bible distinguishes the "body" from the "soul" in the following passages:
1. 1 Thes. 5:23 - spirit and soul listed distinct from body
2. Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Jesus says man is able to kill the body but he is not able to kill the soul. If they were one and the same this would make no sense
3. Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
God has a "soul" but NO BODY! -
The evidence that you are describing the spirit but calling it a soul is because you say it lives on when a person dies, but is not the spirit of the person the part that lives on? Is not the spirit of the person that lives on a conscious, thinking, talking, and emotional existence? I believe yes. The fact is, that when a person dies, his or her soul only changes by the death of the body. When the body dies, what else is there? There are not three separate parts to a human that lives on. There is not even two parts that live on after the body. So, the body is one part, and the spirit is the other part, and that makes two. -
In addition, I just want to point out that not all Bible translations say “soul” in Hebrews 10:38. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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1 Thessalonians 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We keep the body blameless by not sinning with our body.
Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.
1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own.
As for Matthew 10:28, we are told that we should not fear what man can do to us now and here, that we should only fear God who can do more to you than what man can do, for man can kill the body, but God can throw the body, and the body and spirit (the soul) in hell. Remember, the soul IS the alive body with the spirit, the body is alive because of the spirit. Man cannot kill the spirit, but God can throw it in hell with its body.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. -
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Here is something for you to consider carefully, 2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know---God knows.
Here Paul does not know for sure if he was caught up to the third heaven in his body or out of his body. How could Paul possibly wonder if he was caught up out of his body if there is no such thing as our spirit living outside our body? -
If so you have the first part taken care of already. :D -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
1 Cor. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Paul is asserting that your body is "corruptible" and remains "corruptible" or CORRUPTED by sin until the resurrection when it is glorified. It is not kept "blamelss" from sin or the power of sin now after death.
Mt. 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The same subject "them" for the assertion "which kill the body" is the same subject "them" which "are not able to kill the soul."
You are saying that soul = body but Jesus is flatly denying that. Jesus is saying man can kill the body but man cannot kill the soul. If the "body" = "soul" then Jesus would have said "fear not them which kill the body and thus kill the soul" but HE DID NOT SAY THAT. he stated man can kill the body and yet could not kill the soul. The present tense is used for both statements so neither is IN THE FUTURE! What is in the future is what God can do. Even what God can do demonstrates the body is not the soul because Jesus says "BOTH" rather than saying the body is the soul!
There is no possible way you can twists his language to make it mean that the soul is the body either now or in the future in regard to this statement. -
So why do you act as if I am speaking my words and not the Word of God? This is strange that you have blinded yourself from acknowledging the Word of God, and instead you treat me as if I have made comments from my own imagination. Avoid every kind of evil. Why does that offend you so much? That is the word of God.
Jesus said man could kill the body but not kill the soul. Do you think Jesus should have said a man could kill the body but not the spirit? The point we should be concentrating on is what God can do, and that is throw the body and soul in hell. The body is what man can kill, God can throw the body in hell. It is like saying a man can destroy a man's body...God can destroy a man's body...AND THE SOUL. After the resurrection, there will be no more separation of body and spirit, so can you see why the point is that of the soul? Remember, the soul is a body with its spirit. Jesus says God can throw the body in hell. Jesus says God can throw the soul in hell. If you remember that whenever the Bible speaks of the body, it can be with or with the spirit, (it can be dead or alive). Whenever the Bible talks about the soul, it is speaking of the body with its spirit, so why would not God say body and soul?
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead...."
Therefore, in order for the body to be something man can kill, it must have the spirit abiding in it or else it is already dead!
However, if as you say, the soul EQUALS a body with spirit, then man could kill the "soul" by killing the body with the spirit in it! If the body has no spirit in it, James says it is already dead. Man cannot kill what is already dead. Hence, what man kills is something alive and for it to be alive it must be a body with spirit.
James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead...."
Thus by your definition man can kill the soul as that is the only thing man can kill since the only living body is a body with spirit. However, by Christ's definition man cannot kill the soul, therefore, the body plus the spirit does not equal the "soul" by Christ's definition.
You are reading into this text what Jesus does not say. He does not say man can kill the body whether it is with or without the spirit! He does not say that the body with the spirit is a soul! He does not say that! YOU are the one reading this into the text.
Jesus says that the body with the spirit can be killed - as the body without the spirit is ALREADY DEAD and man cannot kill what is ALREADY DEAD. However, Jesus says man cannot kill the soul! Hence, the soul cannot include the body with or without a spirit or otherwise man could kill it. So your interpretation is wrong!
When the body is killed by man both the spirit and soul depart from the body but man cannot kill either. God does not anihilate either in Gehenna. -
If the soul and spirit are different then what is the origin of each? How do they come into existence?
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