I think we would all agree that God is sovereign. There are many different kinds of sovereignty. Here's some.
Could it ever be the case that God would suspend the affects of even one of the kinds of His soverignty?
Maybe the same question but reworded: Could it ever be the case that we would not attribute all the kinds of sovertignty to God at the same time, for all time?
Sovereign in all ways, at the same time, for all time?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by humblethinker, Aug 24, 2011.
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I've wondered about what some believe regarding God's sovereignty in regard to hell. Will God be in "complete and total control" of the eternal torment of souls, or will He be genuinely separated from those in hell in every way?
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per His love and His Holiness!
Wonder IF since we will know things SAME way God does in final state, that we will not grieve for the lost, as know that all lost will be for a reason! -
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Would Calvinists answer both questions accordingly?:
Could it ever be the case that God would suspend the affects of even one of the kinds of His soverignty?
No
Maybe the same question but reworded: Could it ever be the case that we would not attribute all the kinds of sovertignty to God at the same time, for all time?
No
Anyone care to disagree or elaborate? -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterQuote:
Originally Posted by JesusFan
Think that God is ONLY being with "full and complete free Will" , and that He will either use direct/indirect means to have His ultimate Will and Plans fulfilled!
I don't think anyone here on BB will disagree with either of your points.Click to expand...
Who says free will exists period! philosophy does...but scripture does not...
Is God "free" to sin...against His Holy nature???
Is God "free" to change????
Free will is a falsehood of secular philosophy. -
Iconoclast said: ↑Wrong...this is the BB after all....
Who says free will exists period! philosophy does...but scripture does not...
Is God "free" to sin...against His Holy nature???
Is God "free" to change????
Free will is a falsehood of secular philosophy.Click to expand...
What would your answer to the OP be? -
Iconoclast said: ↑Wrong...this is the BB after all....
Who says free will exists period! philosophy does...but scripture does not...
Is God "free" to sin...against His Holy nature???
Is God "free" to change????
Free will is a falsehood of secular philosophy.Click to expand...
Its just His Will shall ALWAYS be with His nature, and would nevr violate His perfect holiness and all other attributes! -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporterhumblethinker said: ↑God cannot sin? What if His intent was for good though? ;-)
What would your answer to the OP be?Click to expand...
Jf......because we are bound to our nature...the will is never free..that is the point. -
Iconoclast said: ↑Jf......because we are bound to our nature...the will is never free..that is the point.Click to expand...
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporterhumblethinker said: ↑Would you disagree with the following: "God is bound to His nature... His will is never free."Click to expand...
Jesus never acted independant of the will of the Father...He did not have to. -
Iconoclast said: ↑Yes......because He cannot violate His Holy attributes...He is perfect in His nature.
Jesus never acted independant of the will of the Father...He did not have to.Click to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporterhumblethinker said: ↑Just to make sure I understand you, you would agree that God does not have contra-causal free will of any sort?Click to expand...
I do not believe free will exists.....there is free moral agency....
but free will is only a philosophical idea...not a fact.
God's will being perfect as all His attributes are. -
Iconoclast said: ↑Humble,
I do not believe free will exists.....there is free moral agency....
but free will is only a philosophical idea...not a fact.
God's will being perfect as all His attributes are.Click to expand...
thanks. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporterhumblethinker said: ↑I think we would all agree that God is sovereign. There are many different kinds of sovereignty. Here's some.
Could it ever be the case that God would suspend the affects of even one of the kinds of His soverignty?
Maybe the same question but reworded: Could it ever be the case that we would not attribute all the kinds of sovertignty to God at the same time, for all time?Click to expand...
8For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.Click to expand...
The best I have read on it is Pink....
http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sovereignty/sov_01.htm -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Here is from A Baptist Cathechism with Commentary; by WR. DOWNING
God Considered as the Source, Support
and End of All Things
This means that God is the Creator or Originator and Definer of all things,
the one who sustains all things in the universe, and that all things exist and are
being brought to final consummation [their final ordained end or conclusion]
in him (Acts 17:24–28; Rom. 11:33–36; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:1–3).
In relation to time and space, God is transcendent, i.e., he far exceeds all
the limitations of the universe he has created. He is above and beyond all time
and space. There is nothing that exists above or beyond God. There is no law,
person or thing to which he must answer; he is absolute, and all created reality
is relative to him. He is moved only from within himself and his own moral
self–consistency (Psa. 90:4; 113:5–6). God is also eternal or supra–temporal,
i.e., he exists above and beyond time (Gen. 1:1; 1 Tim. 1:17). He is immense
and imminent, i.e., fully and personally present throughout the universe (1
Kgs. 8:27; Heb. 4:12–13).
In relation to creation, God is omnipresent (Psa. 139:7–10), omniscient
(Psa. 139:1–5; Jer. 17:9–10; 23:24; Acts 1:24; 15:8) and omnipotent (Gen.
1:1, 3; Psa. 115:3; Isa. 46:9–11).
In relation to moral beings, God is faithful and truthful (Deut. 7:9–10; Jn.
17:17; 1 Cor. 1:9; 10:13; Tit. 1:2; Heb. 6:13–18; 1 Jn. 5:10), gracious,
merciful and good (Psa. 103:1–2, 8–14, 17; Rom. 2:4; 8:28–39), loving and
kind (Jn. 3:16; Rom. 5:5; Eph. 2:4–10; 1 Jn. 4:8, 16), righteous, just and holy
(Psa. 145:17; Isa. 6:1–4; Hos. 1:1–11; Rom. 3:21–26; 11:33–36).
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