I have just started watching the first video of John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference. Has anyone here watched the entire conference?
Strange Fire Conference
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Reformed, Nov 8, 2013.
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Pastor MacArthur made this statement in his first session:
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I have watched most of the videos from the Conference. I enjoyed it since I'm an apologist. It included many of my favorite pastors. Good stuff.
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It's sort of a last gasp from MacArthur, kind of parallels 33.A.D. Pharisees losing membership and money to Jesus, Religion losing membership and money to charismatics. Pharisees always used scripture to ridicule and criticize.
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
We've had multiple posts about the conference. I'll leave most of my comments to what I said in those posts.
Suffice to say, I found the conference to be an unnecessary and ill conceived approach to a topic that isn't a foundational issue of the faith. MacArthur has yet to adequately engage those who have legitimate questions about his theology and statements on the miraculous gifts.
I've watched much of the videos. -
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I will read it, but it comes down to a verse. The definition of "that which is perfect is come". MacArthur will say it is the bible, therefore no need of miracles and healing. But demon possession and sickness are still here. God will not take away our weapons of warfare when we are still at war.
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I don't really understand your second question. There are serious theological objections to Dr MacArthur's positions. Particularly his version of cessationism which is flawed in its biblical approach. There are legitimate evidences of miraculous gifts within the world today. In our ministry network, we just heard from one of our partners who was preaching in a foreign country where a legitimate exercise of the gift of tongues was seen by him and two others.
I can go on, but I have no emotional arguments for the exercise of miraculous gifts so I'm not sure how your point applies. Perhaps some clarification will help. -
The conference was very good and very sound in Biblical truth. In other words it was objective.
He (pij) has nothing to cite and it is apparent his decisions are bathed in his bias. He has no time to read, he only has time to dismiss, nor can or will he prove his accusations of 'serious theological objections' because, yet again, subjective drive by accusations are his only source. :) -
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
As for video, seriously man this is an informal BB. I'm not going to post a video or dig up research for this thing beyond five minutes of time. If you're serious about your request you can find plenty of folks who probably will provide you this stuff.
I'm not a charismatic or pentecostal, but I won't sit around and listen to bad theology be pushed against their viewpoint. This conference is bad theology and bad ministry. It lacked any engagement with actual charismatic theology and caricatured the real issues. I've said my peace about this before elsewhere. -
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
When we look at the NT manifestation of the miraculous gifts, there is no evidence that there is a ending of the gifts. As I've said before, I'm no charismatic or pentecostal. I've never spoken in tongues. I don't have a private prayer language.
However, when we place constrictions against God's work in the world we take our so-called objectivity and make it entirely subjective. As the Spirit was poured out at Pentecost in Acts 2 it continued through the NT period. As Paul lays out the appropriate expression of tongues in 1 Corinthians 14 begins with "pursue the spiritual gifts" particularly with the ability to prophesy (14:1.) Yet this comes after Paul, supposedly, states that tongues (or languages) comes to an end (13:8.) I believe it is a misinterpretation of the 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 to understand this as an event prior to the eschton. Paul's language is eschatological, as well as his point. Nevertheless, there seems to be adequate NT data to support a proper view of the charisma gifts in the NT era and beyond. I'm no charismatic, but I'm not about to say, "God can't do this" or "God can't do that."
Also, my objections aren't subjective, but rather based appropriately in the objective truth of Scripture. Dr MacArthur and his group falsely portrayed charismatic and pentecostal theologies in his conference to bolster their point. He refuses to engage in dialogue with educated and credentialed charismatic theologians. He also speaks down to these groups without appropriately understanding them and their leaders.
While there are certainly terrible excesses in these groups, mischaracterizing them and giving a poorly framed theology of cessation to support your own claim is just as bad. I appreciate Dr MacArthur's ministry but have little time for theological thugs who wish to drag others down to make their points.
Please check me above points if you want an actual conversation and not just a flame war. Have a good evening. :) -
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporterpreachinjesus said: ↑Actually I'd say my theology drives my understanding of experiences that I've had and others' reports.
When we look at the NT manifestation of the miraculous gifts, there is no evidence that there is a ending of the gifts. As I've said before, I'm no charismatic or pentecostal. I've never spoken in tongues. I don't have a private prayer language.
However, when we place constrictions against God's work in the world we take our so-called objectivity and make it entirely subjective. As the Spirit was poured out at Pentecost in Acts 2 it continued through the NT period. As Paul lays out the appropriate expression of tongues in 1 Corinthians 14 begins with "pursue the spiritual gifts" particularly with the ability to prophesy (14:1.) Yet this comes after Paul, supposedly, states that tongues (or languages) comes to an end (13:8.) I believe it is a misinterpretation of the 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 to understand this as an event prior to the eschton. Paul's language is eschatological, as well as his point. Nevertheless, there seems to be adequate NT data to support a proper view of the charisma gifts in the NT era and beyond. I'm no charismatic, but I'm not about to say, "God can't do this" or "God can't do that."
First of all, just call me PJ; makes things easier. Secondly, I have plenty of time to read substantive theology that is worth my time. MacArthur's text isn't worth my time. I listen to his podcast and have viewed enough of the conference to get the book. There are better and more important texts for me to read than this book.
Also, my objections aren't subjective, but rather based appropriately in the objective truth of Scripture. Dr MacArthur and his group falsely portrayed charismatic and pentecostal theologies in his conference to bolster their point. He refuses to engage in dialogue with educated and credentialed charismatic theologians. He also speaks down to these groups without appropriately understanding them and their leaders.
While there are certainly terrible excesses in these groups, mischaracterizing them and giving a poorly framed theology of cessation to support your own claim is just as bad. I appreciate Dr MacArthur's ministry but have little time for theological thugs who wish to drag others down to make their points.
Please check me above points if you want an actual conversation and not just a flame war. Have a good evening. :)Click to expand... -
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporterquantumfaith said: ↑Thanks for your "classiness" (I only wished I could respond with such.)Click to expand...
Also if you read Charles Stanley's book on the Holy Spirit (which bye the way he wrote and did not preach) you would see that he also does not agree with the Charismatic movement. -
evangelist6589 said: ↑So you were wrong and fail to admit it?
I have never heard of that author. Scholar of what? The Charismatic movement? You accuse Mac of bad theology yet won't even read his book on the topic. Okay have you read Charismatic Chaos? That one was not preached but written to my recollection. Its sounding allot like you have no argument beyond your emotions and experiences. Hence even WinMan argues better. He often misses the point, but at least he tries to prove others wrong.Click to expand...Click to expand...
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