1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Supposedly "KJV Only" Refuted At This Link

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Hark, Feb 10, 2021.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What if the TR itself is the Greek text deviation from the originals, and thus the Kjv is also then?
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What doctrines have the modern versions "corrupted" then?
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    HUH?
    Well, it's sure not hades!
     
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you believe the KJVO myth, then please provide SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for it. Without Scriptural support, it can't be true.
     
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,213
    Likes Received:
    405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you clearly identify that "Received Text" and where to find it?

    Glenn Conjurske observed: "Whatever they [KJV-only people] say against the Greek text of the modern versions will apply with equal force against the Greek text of Tyndale and Coverdale. That there is often a difference in degree I freely grant, but I contend that in no way affects the question. The doctrine which contends for a perfect text and a perfect version cannot legitimately or consistently tolerate any degree of variance from its immaculate standard. They cannot have it both ways. To claim that either the text or the version of Tyndale is 'the same basic Bible' as the King James Version is in reality to give up their position altogether" (Bible Version Controversy, p. 152).

    Glenn Conjurske noted: "The King James Version does not entirely agree with any edition of the Textus Receptus" (p. 146).

    Glenn Conjurske asserted: "These editions of the Textus Receptus all differ from each other, and the King James Version differs from every one of them" (p. 236).

    Glenn Conjurske asserted: "No man can construct a Greek text which exactly agrees with the King James Version, unless he does it dishonestly--unless he purposely falsifies the Greek text, in order to conform it to the Latin Vulgate in those places where the King James Version follows the Vulgate instead of the Greek" (p. 181).

    Glenn Conjurske wrote: "But it will be said that the differences in text in the new versions are greater and more numerous. This is undoubtedly true (except in the NKJV, which is translated from the same text as the KJV), but it does not affect the question. It is a difference in degree, not in kind" (p. 151).
     
    #45 Logos1560, Feb 16, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Excellent point that reinforces to us that only the Originals were inspired by God and fully Inerrant!
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This one really does refute KJVO!
    The Origin and Danger of KJV- Only-ism ; Kent Hovind et al Refuted
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The KJVO myth is easily refuted by the fact that it has no Scriptural support, even in the KJV itself.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,213
    Likes Received:
    405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Glenn Conjurske contended: “The main tenet of this [KJV-only] system, which exalts a human and imperfect translation to the place of perfection, giving it an authority equal (or superior) to the original, is a tenet of Romanism, which no Protestant ever believed before the advent of the present generation” (Bible Version, p. 62).
     
  10. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you consider the lost books of the Bible are not accepted in the Bible because of verses in those lost books running contrary to the accepted scripture, then the debate about translation should be boiled down to not sowing doubts in His words. In other words, no translation cannot be contrary or opposing the truths in His words in other parts of that version Bible. If it is, then you may understand why I rely on the KJV, because changed message declining from the testimony of His Son or supporting false teaching or false spirits is why it is hard to correct anyone in that Bible version they are using that tales selected verses that supports that heresy or apostasy.

    Is not keeping the faith the good fight or not?

    So while debunking relying on the KJV only for the meat of His words as if that means KJV-Onlyism, for all that is claimed for what KJVOnlyism is meant to represent as supposedly claimed by both sides of this debate, then that would be considered as throwing the baby out with the bath water & with it any chance of using meat to discern good & evil with Him by the KJV.

    You cannot prove the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for uttering His intercessions in almost all modern Bibles per Romans 8:26-27 even though John 16:13 says in all Bibles that the Holy Spirit cannot speak or utter anything from Himself in representing Himself when He can only speak what He hears whereas the KJV keeps the truth in His words by saying that He cannot even utter His groanings in Romans 8:26 even though other Bibles cast doubts in His words in believing some kind of sound is uttered.

    How does this relate to keeping the faith? Modern tongue speakers are preaching another gospel, another Jesus, another spirit to receive ( 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15 in order to get this tongue for private use that comes with no interpretation but is gibberish nonsense ( Isaiah 8:19 & 1 John 4:1-6 ) Proof of this other calling is by receiving that tongue as a sign or as evidence; 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 in spite that tongues were not to serve as proof or a sign to the believer themselves for receiving anything from the Lord; not as a sign of salvation, not as a sign of God calling them into the ministry & not as a sign that they got this other baptism of the Holy Ghost by that sign f tongue ( Matthew 12:39 ).

    So no matter how you try to reason by intellectual prejudices against relying only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good & evil, you have to ask yourself what are you called to do... keep the faith in Jesus Christ or keep railing against relying only on the KJV? To me, you cannot do both.
     
    #50 Hark, Mar 2, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  11. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is a famous deflection from the issue at hand, often parroted by those refusing to stick to the issue at hand.

    Proof? Try applying that to every Bible version in English then.

    Reapplying your words "To even act like Jesus was referring to the English Bible as a whole is ludicrous and error filled. A man made argument and taking the Words of Jesus out of context."

    Since you can get KJV in a foreign language as well as other English versions, then the proper use of applying His words goes to non-contrary translation in any English Bible that does not sow doubts to His words in other parts of that bible version..

    You cannot prove the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for uttering His intercessions in almost all modern Bibles per Romans 8:26-27 even though John 16:13 says in all Bibles that the Holy Spirit cannot speak or utter anything from Himself in representing Himself when He can only speak what He hears whereas the KJV keeps the truth in His words by saying that He cannot even utter His groanings in Romans 8:26 even though other Bibles cast doubts in His words in believing some kind of sound is uttered.

    How does this relate to keeping the faith? Modern tongue speakers are preaching another gospel, another Jesus, another spirit to receive ( 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15 in order to get this tongue for private use that comes with no interpretation but is gibberish nonsense ( Isaiah 8:19 & 1 John 4:1-6 ) Proof of this other calling is by receiving that tongue as a sign or as evidence; 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 in spite that tongues were not to serve as proof or a sign to the believer themselves for receiving anything from the Lord; not as a sign of salvation, not as a sign of God calling them into the ministry & not as a sign that they got this other baptism of the Holy Ghost by that sign f tongue ( Matthew 12:39 ).

    So no matter how you try to reason by intellectual prejudices against relying only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good & evil, you have to ask yourself what are you called to do... keep the faith in Jesus Christ or keep railing against relying only on the KJV? To me, you cannot do both.
     
  12. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Differences do affect doctrines which is why I rely on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good & evil with Him by His words..

    You cannot prove the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues for uttering His intercessions in almost all modern Bibles per Romans 8:26-27 even though John 16:13 says in all Bibles that the Holy Spirit cannot speak or utter anything from Himself in representing Himself when He can only speak what He hears whereas the KJV keeps the truth in His words by saying that He cannot even utter His groanings in Romans 8:26 even though other Bibles cast doubts in His words in believing some kind of sound is uttered.

    How does this relate to keeping the faith? Modern tongue speakers are preaching another gospel, another Jesus, another spirit to receive ( 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15 in order to get this tongue for private use that comes with no interpretation but is gibberish nonsense ( Isaiah 8:19 & 1 John 4:1-6 ) Proof of this other calling is by receiving that tongue as a sign or as evidence; 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 in spite that tongues were not to serve as proof or a sign to the believer themselves for receiving anything from the Lord; not as a sign of salvation, not as a sign of God calling them into the minsry & not as a sign that they got this other baptism of the Holy Ghost by that sign f tongue ( Matthew 12:39 ).

    So no matter how you try to reason by intellectual prejudices against relying only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good & evil, you have to ask yourself what are you called to do... keep the faith in Jesus Christ or keep railing against relying only on the KJV? To me, you cannot do both.
     
  13. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not know everything that makes up the KJVO myth since no one can really say that is what KJVO is really all about. Both sides say different things but I say I rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words as I trust Jesus as my Good Shepherd to help me understand His words & apply them, even when discerning the changed messages in modern Bibles that supports heresy & apostasy. So He will have to do that for you if you trust Him to do it over all your teachings from men to see.
     
  14. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Since the arrest was made during the days of the unleavened bread which follows the day of Passover, it cannot be after that specific day of Passover. Since the origin of the word Easter was not Hebrew nor Greek origin, its meaning that the festival of the 7 days of unleavened bread to be in relations to the Passover day should not be missed.

    I know Who those verses are talking about. In fact if you compare the 2, your versions seems to want to give credit & the glory to God the Father through Jesus Christ rather than to Jesus Christ as God & Savior as the KJV has it. I am sure if you speak with those that deny the deity of Christ, that they would apply your version in that way.

    In any known manuscripts? Did you know that the phrase "Majority Greek Text" is not meaning ALL Greek manuscripts but a selected amount out of the many? Most of the Greek texts collated were from Eastern Orthodox that had a vested interests in changing the texts to combat Sabellianism for why there were not that many Book of 1 John among them as well as 1 John 5:7 written as is in the KJV.

    Dr. Van Soden did not collate more than 400 out of the 5,000 Greek texts.

    Since hell is thrown in the lake of fire, then the lake of fire is the lake of fire. But if you were to be discerning, you would have done a word search to find this in the NIV of 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;....NIV

    Now how can you be in hell awaiting the judgment as in the final judgment of being put in the lake of fire unless hell is a different holding area than the lake of fire? So no matter how you do not like this, hell is hades & sheol. If contenders were making a big deal about hell, then why hades & sheol since they both are accepted as representing that same place? Since modern Bibles has hell written as a holding place before the final judgment, it is not a mistranslation, now is it?.

    Nothing in your list addresses the KJV as changing the message that can be taken out of context to support false doctrine by that changed message in that verse.
     
  15. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The NIV of 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;....NIV

    Contenders should pray & lean on Him to prove everything taught for why they are anti-KJVOnlyism. Hell is used in modern Bibles and if angels are in chains in hell, awaiting their final judgment which has to be the lake of fire, then hell cannot be the lake of fire.
     
  16. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The NIV of 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;....NIV

    Closed eyes? Why don't we all prove our own beliefs & "facts" with His help. Does hell exists in the Bible versions that has sheol & hades in it? One can do a search at Bible Gateway, select your Bible versions & put hell in the search engine to see.

    One has to question from your point of view, why then hades or sheol? Why not just use one reference & not another referring to the same place? But since they do, then applying hell as proven by 2 Peter 3:4 is the same as referring to sheol or Hades. Therefore no mistranslation.
     
  17. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,408
    Likes Received:
    63
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Scripture told you how the Holy Spirit would bear witness in leading you to do also in worship; to testify of the Son to glorify the Son & thereby God the Father. You are not led by the Spirit of God in worship to honor, nor glorify the Holy Spirit but the Son, & by Him, God the Father.

    Scripture told you what the Holy Spirit will do.. John 15:26-27 & John 16:14 So are you led by the Spirit to do that in worship or not?
     
  18. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are certainly wrong here. A believer can recognize the KJV as the word of God, and be mature enough to know that it is not always right, but contains mistakes that should be corrected to have the word of God more complete. To pretend the KJV is always right is fantasie and a man made lie, devoid of accurate Bible study.
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Th
    The KJVO myth is the false doctrine that the KJV is the ONLY valid English Bible translation, & that it's perfect.

    I have posted the MAN-MADE ORIGIN of the current edition of that myth elsewhere in this "Bible Versions" forum. But NO believer of the KJVO myth can support that myth with SCRIPTURE from the KJV.(Or any other version)

    Dr. Bob has posted an excellent rundown of the definitions of the KJVO myth in this forum at the beginning of it, in the "sticky posts" column.

    Have you ever asked your self WHY some of the wording is changed in newer versions, besides getting rid of the archaic English? The MAIN reason is that some of the renderings are WRONG. For instance, "Easter" in Acts 12:4 is an outright GOOF. Newer versions replace it with the CORRECT rendering od "passover".

    Now, while MVs have their own mistakes, the KJV is chock-full of them !
     
  20. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,213
    Likes Received:
    405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your opinion is incorrect.

    KJV-onlyism is really all about making exclusive, only claims for only one English Bible translation and about in effect trying to imply perfection or near perfection for that one imperfect English translation. Human KJV-only reasoning suggest that the KJV is the word of God translated into English in a different sense than any other English Bible is the word of God translated into English.

    Glenn Conjurske observed: "Most of the King James Only men have of late been shy of the word 'perfect,' but if they ascribe to the King James Version what practically amount to perfection, their scruples abut the word 'perfect' signify nothing" (Bible Version Controversy, p. 127).
     
Loading...