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TEN Commandments - e.g. "do not take God's name in vain".. still moral law

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Aug 10, 2017.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

    Moral law of God -- that which "defines what sin is and what righteousness is" - as we see in Romans 7 and in Romans 3.

    "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-33

    "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

    So then it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain". Even for Christians.

    "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

    "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Revelation 14:12

    Ephesians 6:2 The 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" in what unit of law?

    Answer -- in that still-valid unit-of-TEN.

    So then even for born-again Christians -- it is a sin to take God's name in vain.

    ==================================
    the Bible statements above are hardly even debatable given this short list of groups that affirm them.

    The Baptist Confession of Faith,
    the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
    D.L. Moody,
    R.C Sproul,
    Matthew Henry,
    Thomas Watson
    Eastern Orthodox Catechism
    The Catholic Catechism.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which christian thinks that we can cuss out God now?
     
  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Does abortion break any commandment?
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    So then "even you" admit that the Ten Commandments are included in the moral law of God?? Written on the heart under the New Covenant?

    OR - were you going to make the case that "Do not take God's name in vain" is not in the Ten Commandments - but rather some "other place"???

    What then about Ephesians 6:2?? Also not in the Ten Commandments???
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are we saved by Grace, or by keeping the Law? Hint, paul wrote 2 whole books on that!
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Saved by grace through faith -- still.. a sin even for the saints - to "take God's name in vain" -- and we all know it.
     
  7. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Define what it is to take the Lord's name in vain.
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    The word for "vain" (shav) Empty.

    To speak or refer to Him in an "empty" manner with no useful purpose, either in prayer or teaching others.
    e.g. Commonly used as a curse asking Him to damn someone or something, even (IMO) the common expression (OMG).

    We are not under the law but who, being indwelt of the Holy Spirit, would even want to do this?

    Doesn't it make you cringe?, If not we are spiritually ill.

    HankD
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In this thread the question is "define what it means to actually QUOTE something in the OT as found in the NT"
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Romans 3:19-20 Paul defines the term "under the Law" to mean "under the condemnation of the Law" -- the lost are under the condemnation of the LAW - the TEN Commandments - to this very day.

    The saints have the LAW known to Jeremiah in Jer 31:31-33 "written on the heart".

    Thus it is "still" a sin to take God's name in vain - even for the saints.

    AND even in the NT "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1John 3:;4 -- just as it was in the OT
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    And does that mean it is no longer sin to "take God's name in vain"??
     
  12. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Sin is sin. Christians sin everyday by failing to meet God's moral law and holiness. Hopefully no one is saying they have attained sinless perfection.
    The question is: Must we confess every sin for God's atonement of sin to be actualized? The answer is: No.
    If we were to lose our salvation because we failed to confess every time we fell short of perfectly following God's moral law, we would spend eternity in hell and God's grace would not exist at all. Salvation would be by works and works alone.
    But, we are covered by God's grace. We don't continue in sin so as to abuse grace, but we know that God is gracious in regard to our corrupt nature.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    The issue is that the Ten Commandments are a part of the Law which was given to Israel at a specific time in history as a covenant. It was not given to the world, it was given to Israel. And it was not given to Israel prior to the exodus (Deut. 5).

    But the Law reflects (as does anything God does) God’s own nature and God’s moral law (God is immutable). So it was wrong to steal outside of the Law as it was under the Law. The difference is categories – what are the moral aspects of the Law reflecting God’s universal moral law and what was commanded of Israel under that covenant pointing, as the Law itself points, to its fulfillment in Christ?
     
  14. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Bob, anyone who wants to keep the commandments should keep the whole law not just the 10 commandments.

    Deuteronomy 11
    26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
    27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
    28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

    One infraction and those who attempt to keep the law are guilty of the whole law.

    James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

    Deuteronomy 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

    When that happens to those who try:The cure:

    Matthew 11
    27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
    28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    The Spirit of Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death and He never leads us into sin.
    In fact He has given us a new heart of regeneration that does not want to sin.

    He does not need to command His sheep to stay out of the hog wallow.

    HankD
     
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, but that doing that will not cause one to lose salvation either!
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Some teach that the saints will be taking God's name in vain all the way to heaven

    Christ did not preach that in Matt 18.. in fact He refuted it.
    Paul did not teach that in Romans 11 - in fact he refuted it.

    But if you can bring yourself to admit that taking God''s name in vain is still 'sin" just as it was in Exodus 20:7.. well then you are accepting the Ten Commandments
     
  17. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    And if you bring yourself to where you never draw or take a picture you're following the 2nd commandment, which says to "...make no graven image or any likeness of anything..."
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are still under the moral aspects of the Law, but we are saved by grace alone/faith alone!
     
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  19. AwesomeMachine

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    Jesus was of the notion that Jews are superior, and that He came to save the Jews first. Paul wanted Christianity to be available to all people, even people who did not follow Jewish law. However, Jesus said, "Not one letter shall pass away from the law until all is accomplished."

    The essence of sin is conscience. Leviticus 5 implies that if a man utters a rash oath, when the man becomes aware of his sin, he shall be guilty of the sin.

    The Ten Commandments were indeed intended specifically for the Israelites, as the bare minimum legal standard. But there is nothing in scripture to suggest it is permissible to violate any of the Ten Commandments. However, the law keeps evolving.

    During the fifteenth century the Church proclaimed that it is adultery for a married man to have relations with an unmarried woman. The entire world, even Catholics, ignored the edict. If one is to read Roman history, it is readily apparent that marriage laws were entirely male-chauvinistic. Married men were legally permitted unlimited access to unmarried females, and the wife had no recourse.

    I know I've drifted a bit from the OP, but I'm illustrating a point of how the law can change. Ancient Roman males could divorce their wives for practically any reason. A wife on the other hand were required to prove she had been abandoned or that the husband tried to murder her.

    It was the puritans from England who first adopted the Catholic teaching on male adultery. During the time of Christ, it was expected that a man would sire children by his maidservants. It was encouraged that every man sire children by all the females not of blood relation to himself in his household!

    The new understanding of adultery is one of the things that strengthened marriage in the United States. Now it's considered a sin for a married man to have relations with an unmarried woman. But until the fifteenth century there was no such teaching observed by any culture, not even Jewish culture.

    Even today, it is only Western culture that observes monogamy for males. So, if anything, the Commandments of God have become more stringent today than in the past. My understanding of taking the Lord's Name in vain is using the Holy Name to strengthen an oath, or to use it in an empty context, as an exclamation of sorts.

    I don't claim to be 100% positive about that last part. Perhaps others have some ideas.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    So you are ... or are not ... in favor of taking God's name in vain for Christians??
     
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