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Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?6

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Brightfame52, Sep 14, 2022.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Christ's Death Turns us from Iniquity !

    Acts 3:25-26

    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

    The Resurrected Christ turns EVERY ONE OF THEM, of those He died for, Turns them away from their Sins, Other words , gives them Repentance !

    Thats part of the Blessing of Abraham Promised, Gen 12:3

    3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    Part of the being blessed, and a major part, is that of being Turned away from our sins, for that it was connected to the Blessing of Abraham, Peter makes plain lets read Acts 3:20-26


    20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

    21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

    23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

    24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

    The promised to be blessed in Vs 25 is the fufilled through Christ, Abraham's Seed [Gal 3:16] here in Vs 26, Christ through His Redemptive Work, His Death, and having been raised up, He blesses Abraham's Seed, in turning each and every one of them away from their sins.


    Now True, Peter at this specific time was preaching at a remnant of jews, however, he stills quotes a Divine Promise in the connection thereof that applies to Gentiles, when He spake these words Acts 3:25

    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    Paul under the inspiration of God applies the very same words to the Gentiles Gal 3:8

    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    However these heathen Gentiles also belonged to the Seed of Abraham, for remember, God made Abraham a Father of many nations Gen 17:5

    5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

    So therefore the Promise to turn every one of them [the seed] away from their sins, did also apply to Abraham's Seed among the Heathen, thats why Peter says here Acts 11:18

    18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

    Thats what " turning away every one of you from his iniquities." being turned away from ones sins denotes, that we have been Granted Repentance from God through Jesus Christ, and consequently, all believers through Christ, jew or Gentile, are Abraham's Seed and Heirs according to Promise Gal 3:29

    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    One of those Promises being Acts 3:25-26

    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
     
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  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF you seem to have overlooked who Peter was speaking to. We find the answer in vs 12 “Men of Israel” they were the ones that denied Christ Jesus, the Messiah they had been waiting for vs 14. Further you left out a critical verse Act of the Apostles 3:19 where he tells them they need to repent of their rejection of their Messiah and be converted so their sins can be blotted out. But note that having their sins blotted out is conditioned on their repenting of their rejection of Christ.



    If you had taken these verses in to consideration you would not have come to the conclusion you have. Jesus Christ came to bless those that would repent and turn to Him in faith which is the appropriate response to the gospel message.
     
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Did you notice Acts 3:26 ?"

    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

    What is the Blessing of God having raised up Jesus His Son ?
     
  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF are you now promoting universalism?

    To answer your question yes I noticed it but you can not just pull the verses out of context which is what you are doing. But the question is did you not notice Act 3:19? The blessing is salvation for those that repent as we see in verse 19 which you seem to ignore. You are letting your calvinism determine what the text means which is the wrong way to study the bible.

    Act 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
    Act 3:20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,

    Notice what vs 25 says "AND IN YOUR SEED ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED" Does that mean that all will be saved, NO. Does that mean that all can be saved, YES and that is the desire of God. 1 Timothy 2:3-4.
    What we know is that through faith in Christ Jesus, the elect one, those that trust in Him will be saved. And that is the Blessing of God having raised up Jesus His Son.
     
  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Thats part of the blessing of Abraham, that Jesus Christ turns His People from their sins, that means He gives them repentance. Now this blessing of Abraham wasn't just confined to some of the jews who Peter preached to, but it also applied to some Gentiles.

    Notice Peter quoted the source of the promised blessing here in verse 25

    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    Notice it says this is based on Gods promise that all the kindreds of the earth shall be blessed

    So this tells us that the same blessing of being turned from their sins applies to the Gentile nations as well, even though the blessing is first being applied to some jews.

    We know this is true because Paul when writing to the galatians wrote that the Gentiles have been blessed based upon the same Promise Gal 3:8

    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    So some gentiles are included in the blessing of Acts 3:26 but it would be following the blessing to the jews first !

    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

    So no Im no universalist but I understand that the blessing doesnt apply to just jews, but it included gentiles.

    This is accomplished by Jesus death !


     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know that the blood of Christ covered the sins of all mankind, did you not understand that by the words "ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED". Those that repent of their sins and trust in the risen Son will be saved. I have pointed that out to you a number of times.

    I asked if you were a universalist because you seem to focus on " in turning away every one of you from his iniquities" Since you had not included verse 19 your focus leads to one of two conclusions 1] all Jews will be saved or 2] Everyone will be saved. That is why context matters. By including vs 19 we see that it is only those that repent and trust in the Son that will be saved.
     
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I can see now you dont understand, even after I took time to explain to you. The Blessing of Abraham through his Seed Christ produces in the children, the Spirit, which regenerates and repentance and Faith, any spiritual obedience needed to experience redemption/salvation in this life and the one coming. The Blessing of Abraham is for a remnant out of the jews and a remnant out of the gentiles !
     
  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I can see that you do not understand scripture as you have the person regenerated before they repent and believe. No wonder you have such a hard time with the bible and salvation.

    The blessing that came through Abraham was meant for the whole world Genesis 12:3, Genesis 22:18. Christ Jesus was the seed that was being spoken of. Salvation through faith in Him was meant for the whole world. So while salvation is available to all only those that repent and trust in the Son will be saved.

    BF you continue to miss this even though it has been pointed out to you a number of times.
     
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Right it was for Abrahams Seed from amongs jews and gentiles. Its still limited to Abrahams seed. The blessing is for Abraham and His Seed
     
  10. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Abraham's seed that the verse refers to is Christ Jesus. The whole world is blessed through Him.
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    By His Stripes they are healed/ saved !

    1 Pet 2:24

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    Sure Peter is writing to believers, that needs be since without believing, their is no evidence that Christ death saved or healed you.

    Stripes in this verse goes without saying means His Death it is a Synecdoche, and it effects healing or saving !

    The greek word for healed here is iaomai and means:

    I.
    to cure, heal

    II.
    to make whole
    A.
    to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation


    Here are verses as it , the word heal pertains to Salvation/ Conversion :

    Matt 13:15

    15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

    Jn 12:40

    40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

    Acts 28:27

    27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

    The english word healed means :

    to free from evil; cleanse; purify: to heal the soul.

    Also the word saved here Eph 2:5

    Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

    The greek word here is sōzō and means:

    I.to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
    A.
    one (from injury or peril)
    i.
    to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health

    So Peter here in 1 Pet 2:24 is saying without question to believers, your conversion to God, your Salvation is the healing effects of His Stripes for you, or His Death for you !

    Those Christ died for, His Stripes alone saved them from their sins, its penalty, its power because it effects your conversion to God, and so for this cause, the Gospel is sent to such to inform them of their Salvation, so to them it is the Gospel of their Salvation plain and simple Eph 1:13

    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    The Gospel of ones Salvation is logically sent to those whom Christ's stripes healed or saved, for that is why it is the Gospel of their Salvation ! And they hear it because they have ears to hear Matt 13:15

    15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

    Paul said they heard the word of Truth Eph 1:13

    13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    The word heard here in Eph 1:13 is the same word for hear in Matt 13:15

    But only the Healed one from Christ's Stripes 1 Pet 2:24 shall hear the Gospel of their Salvation to convert them !

    1 Pet 2:24 very damaging to the antichrist lie that Christ's death/ stripes alone does not cause ones Salvation, Conversion experience ! 22
     
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Its Christ and His Spiritual seed in Him because they're one. Gal 3:16,29

    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Actually 1Pe 2:24 shows, even as you said, that it is believers that are saved. What do they believe in, a dead Christ, NO. They trust in Christ Jesus because God raised Him from the dead. It is by grace because of their faith that God saves them. As Paul said, if Christ was not raised you are still in your sin. In other words you are not saved.

    While agree that stripes can be used as a Synecdoche to represent the death burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus the reality is that if Christ had only died then our sins would be covered but if He had not risen then we would still not be saved

    I note you refer to Eph 1:13
    Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    So the question becomes what is the gospel message
    1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
    1Co 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
    1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

    1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
    1Co 15:18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

    BF the atonement does not save, His life saves. So I would say that 1Pe 2:24-25 is very damaging to the antichrist lie that the atonement saves.
     
  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF you have to decide are you saved by faith in Abraham or by faith in Christ Jesus? You seem to be very confused on this point.
     
  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It shows how they were saved/healed. According to that scripture how were they saved/healed ?

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
     
  16. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    BF you ignore scripture that tells you clearly how we are saved and hold to a verse that is not intended to support your view. Why is that? Are you so stuck on your calvinism that you refuse to trust what the bible says.

    Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    So the question becomes what is the gospel message
    1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
    1Co 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
    1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

    1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
    1Co 15:18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

    BF the atonement does not save, His life saves. So I would say that 1Pe 2:24-25 is very damaging to the antichrist lie that the atonement saves.

    Why do you refuse to accept what the bible tells you?
     
  17. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You still dont get it. Christs death turns those He died for from their sins. Thats the blessing of Abraham.
     
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    1 Peter 2:24 tells us how people were saved, by Christs Death. If you dont believe that, your faith is in something else.
     
  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You still do not get it BF. The atonement covers the sins of mankind His life provides salvation for those that believe. Those that hear and believe will turn from their sin but as we know not everyone that hears believes do they.

    You say that all Christ died for will turn from their sins but that view makes you a universalist according to scripture.

    For whom did Christ die
    1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all
    Heb 2:9 that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
    Joh 3:17 that the world through Him might be saved
    1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
    Rom 5:6 Christ died for the ungodly.

    Do you fit into any of those groups? If you do then Christ came to die for you.

    But there is a condition for salvation. FAITH.

    Mar_16:16 He who believes ...will be saved
    Act_16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
    Rom_10:9 confess ... believe ... you will be saved
    Gal_3:8 ...God would justify the Gentiles by faith
    Gal_3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
    1Co_1:21 ... save those who believe

    I know this a hard pill for you to swallow but scripture does not support your view of atonement saves.
     
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    We are saved by Christ life. If you don't believe that then you are denying scripture.
    1Pe 2:24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

    Notice those words "having died to sins", what do you think those mean? You deny the obvious so that you can hold to your man-made theology.
     
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