The Bible Tongues is not what being done today

[John3v36]

Speaking in Tongues, the way the churches do it today is not how it was practice in Bible time.
In the Bible, you never had to teach some one to speak in tongues.
In the Bible tongues where used to speak a language that you did not already know.
Never in the Bible do you see people rolling in the alias speaking gibberish.

The so-called tongues of today is not the tongue of the Bible or of God but the devil.

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by John3v36:
Speaking in Tongues, the way the churches do it today is not how it was practice in Bible time.
In the Bible, you never had to teach some one to speak in tongues.
In the Bible tongues where used to speak a language that you did not already know.
Never in the Bible do you see people rolling in the alias speaking gibberish.

The so-called tongues of today is not the tongue of the Bible or of God but the devil.

John, I have had the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in other tongues, for over thirty years. I have never seen anyone rolling in the floor or speaking "gibberish."

You people read too much and listen to non-belivers. Chill out!

MEE

 

[John3v36]

Originally posted by MEE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John3v36:
Speaking in Tongues, the way the churches do it today is not how it was practice in Bible time.
In the Bible, you never had to teach some one to speak in tongues.
In the Bible tongues where used to speak a language that you did not already know.
Never in the Bible do you see people rolling in the alias speaking gibberish.

The so-called tongues of today is not the tongue of the Bible or of God but the devil.

John, I have had the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in other tongues, for over thirty years. I have never seen anyone rolling in the floor or speaking "gibberish."

You people read too much and listen to non-belivers. Chill out!

MEE

</font>[/QUOTE]In my BC day (That is before Christ), I was 19 in the Air force in Mississippi and in the RC church.
A friend of mine named Jim Higgins asked me to go to church with him. So I did.
The next Sunday some people came to pick us up. We rode for 1 ½ hr in to the middle of nothing with woods all around it was a little church. We went in and I sat in the next to the back roll. The preacher started preaching and right in the middle of his sermon all people(and I do mean ALL) they all crawling to the front on the knees with they arm swing back and forth in the air and jabbering. I was scared to death. When they made to the front, the preacher started touch each on the forehead and as he did, they started falling on the floor and rolling flopping around like a fish out of water. I thought they where all crazy.

About that time the preacher turned to me (I was the only one left in his set) and said “Brother come on down” I sat there shaking my head no. He said “that’s the devil speaking” I keep shaking my head no. He said to 3 men “go and cast the devil out of him” and as I like to put it when they came to cast the devil out of me I got devil out of there. Ijumped up and ran until I could run no more and caught a ride bake to base.


St John

 

[John3v36]

John, I have had the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in other tongues, for over thirty years.

MEE [Saint]

The Spirit baptized me the day I was saved and I never spoke in a tongue other than English. The Bible say you will know them by there fruit and it say you will know them by there love. I never read where it said you would know them by them speaking some unknown sound.

 

[music4Him]

So John... you based you decision on one experience?
I am a Spirit filled christian and I beleive the gifts including tongues are still for today. But, to me it sounds like that church was not operating right. You did the right thing of running out of there.

 

[John3v36]

I believe in the gift of tongues. However, what most people are teaching as the gift tongues is not what the Bible teaches. I do not care what you have expected if it does not match what the Bible teaches it not true.

 

[music4Him]

John I look at it this way if I took a spanish class to "learn" how to speak spanish and I some how learned how to speak it.... for me it would be a gift.

I also believe the Lord can do anything He likes. On the day of pentecost when the Peter and the disciples were filled and went into the street......every man heard what they were saying in their own tongue and some were amazed but others mocked saying they were drunk. Well thats just like today for those who do not get the interpretation I guess it would sound like they are drunk? Thats why the scripture says we ought to pray for interpretation too.

The rolling on the floor and gerking I don't think that has to do with talking in tongues? I can kinda understand the falling thing though... Remember when Jesus was in the garden and they came to get Him to be crucified? Well remember when they asked Him if he was Jesus and he said he was ...they fell down when he spoke.
John 18:3-6
Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. 4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? 5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

 

[MEE]

Music4Him, those are exactly the two scriptures that came to mind. I didn't bother to post because I thought, what's the use?

Shame on me!

MEE

 

[music4Him]

I'll let it slide this time ~MEE... but don't ever leave out a scripture when got one.

I always like to back up what I say when I can. Jesus did when He was being tempted in the desert and you see how easy it was for Him to solve with the word.

But I can see where ~John is kinda put off with tongues with the experiance he had at that..?...that..?.. "place" he went to. I'm sorry but it really upsets me.

Music4Him

 

[Walguy]

On Pentecost the believers spoke in known languages, not some kind of private prayer language. At the arrest of Jesus, the people who fell to the ground were unbelievers who did not have the Holy Spirit. Neither of these passages offer any support whatsoever for the modern usage of 'tongues.'
The sign gifts did not have to be taught. Someone who had the gift of healing could heal at will. No one had to teach him how to do it. Same with tongues. The Holy Spirit gave the gift as He saw fit to those who had been specifically chosen by God to have it, and they were able to use it at will. It was not a gift everyone was supposed to have, only a select few as with the other sign gifts.
The most powerful refutation of modern tongues, as I've pointed out numerous times on this board, is that Paul specifically said that Spiritual Gifts are given to us for the COMMON GOOD, to edify others. Modern 'tongues' is used by people to edify themselves, not others. No true manifestation of the Spirit is ever to be used that way. One of the main reasons for God giving Spiritual Gifts in the first place is to help us get our minds off of ourselves and onto serving others. To give a manifestation of the Spirit that is used to minister to ourselves would undermine the very purpose of the Gifts, and God would never do that. We are naturally very good at thinking about ourselves, we certainly don't need God's help for that.
I have yet to see any modern 'tongues' speaker give an adequate response to that point, btw, on this board or elsewhere.

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Walguy:
[QB] On Pentecost the believers spoke in known languages, not some kind of private prayer language.

**Walguy, when the saints at Pentecost were "filled with the Holy Ghost" they spoke with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them the utterance. If the Bible had stopped there at Acts 2:4, what other sign of being filled with the Spirit of God would they have looked for? There is no other sign!

The sign gifts did not have to be taught. Someone who had the gift of healing could heal at will.

**People aren't taught to heal anyone. God does the healing. There is no such thing as someone having the "gift of healing." It's called, "gifts of healing." These gifts come from God. A person doesn't carry this power around in their pocket to use at will.

**Even the apostles had to come to Jesus for help at times. Jesus said that this type of healing comes about by prayer and fasting. The He proceeded to heal that person. Look it up..don't have time.

The most powerful refutation of modern tongues, as I've pointed out numerous times on this board, is that Paul specifically said that Spiritual Gifts are given to us for the COMMON GOOD, to edify others. Modern 'tongues' is used by people to edify themselves, not others.

**Well Walguy, if a person has the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in other tongues, why would he have to edify someone else?

Seems to me that they all should have the same power and could take care of themselves. Keep in mind we are taking about speaking in tongues..not one that prophesies. It has it's place as well as speaking in tongues, as far as edification goes.

Remember Paul said, "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

This could go on and on, and it probably will but this is how I see the scriptures.

MEE

 

[tamborine lady]

I too am a spirit filled Christian and it really gets tiresome trying to explain it to people who don't really care to study it.

They just say we're wrong and that's that!

But praise God, it doesn't matter what they say, I know that tongues is for today!!



Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

[Walguy]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

I too am a spirit filled Christian and it really gets tiresome trying to explain it to people who don't really care to study it.

They just say we're wrong and that's that!

That's a blatant falsehood, and you owe an apology to people like me and DHK who have taken much time making long posts, filled with Bible references, refuting modern 'tongues' speaking in great detail. Our posts are about as far from 'that's that' as it's possible to get, and you are well aware of it. We HAVE studied the matter IN DEPTH, and our analyses are sensible to those who are not blinded by the emotional 'high' of modern 'tongues.'
It is your side who refuse to substantively address the issue of the Gifts being given for the benefit of others. And also why, if ALL the Gifts are still fully operative, we don't see anyone today exercising the Gift of Healing (instantaneous healing of any disease/injury/disfigurement).
It seems to me that your side is a lot closer to 'that's that' than we are.

 

[music4Him]

OK somebody better post that scripture......


Its a well known scripture........

Oh well, here it is.........
1Cor.13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

To me and what I have seen on these boards...this passage is a pivitol part of whether or not one believes whether tongues are for today or not.

The next argument would be what one conciders perfect..... ie the bible (written word) vrs. Jesus.

 

[DHK]

"That which is perfect" is in the neuter gender in the Greek.
Christ is masculine.
So the answer is quite obvious.
"That which is perfect" refers to the Bible.
DHK

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Walguy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tamborine lady:

I too am a spirit filled Christian and it really gets tiresome trying to explain it to people who don't really care to study it.

They just say we're wrong and that's that!

That's a blatant falsehood, and you owe an apology to people like me and DHK who have taken much time making long posts, filled with Bible references, refuting modern 'tongues' speaking in great detail.

**Walguy, I've tried to be nice on this forum, so don't push my buttons! Tam or no one else owes you or DHK an apology. There are no big I's and little U's on this board. Understand?

It is your side who refuse to substantively address the issue of the Gifts being given for the benefit of others. And also why, if ALL the Gifts are still fully operative, we don't see anyone today exercising the Gift of Healing (instantaneous healing of any disease/injury/disfigurement).

**OK, here is a one of God's "gifts of healing" that was reported on our online prayer requests that just came by e-mail this morning.

( Also my nurse told me of a true miracle on Tracy
Lovins, the young mother with advanced cancer with no hope of a medical cure---after much prayer by many including a prayer vigil at her house which evidently was attended by 137 people including the laying on of hands, her repeat CT scan was totally free of any cancer !!!!!!!!!!!!! what an awesome GOD we serve
Thanks and be blessed, Craig )

**Walguy, it takes faith in God for healings to happen. Believe it or not, it's up to an individual...the choice is up to you.

MEE

</font>[/QUOTE]

 

[Walguy]

Originally posted by MEE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walguy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tamborine lady:

I too am a spirit filled Christian and it really gets tiresome trying to explain it to people who don't really care to study it.

They just say we're wrong and that's that!

That's a blatant falsehood, and you owe an apology to people like me and DHK who have taken much time making long posts, filled with Bible references, refuting modern 'tongues' speaking in great detail.

**Walguy, I've tried to be nice on this forum, so don't push my buttons! Tam or no one else owes you or DHK an apology. There are no big I's and little U's on this board. Understand?

It is your side who refuse to substantively address the issue of the Gifts being given for the benefit of others. And also why, if ALL the Gifts are still fully operative, we don't see anyone today exercising the Gift of Healing (instantaneous healing of any disease/injury/disfigurement).

**OK, here is a one of God's "gifts of healing" that was reported on our online prayer requests that just came by e-mail this morning.

( Also my nurse told me of a true miracle on Tracy
Lovins, the young mother with advanced cancer with no hope of a medical cure---after much prayer by many including a prayer vigil at her house which evidently was attended by 137 people including the laying on of hands, her repeat CT scan was totally free of any cancer !!!!!!!!!!!!! what an awesome GOD we serve
Thanks and be blessed, Craig )

**Walguy, it takes faith in God for healings to happen. Believe it or not, it's up to an individual...the choice is up to you.

MEE

</font>[/QUOTE]</font>[/QUOTE]I believe in miraculous healing in response to prayer, which is what that is an example of. What we do not see is the GIFT of healing, the ability to INSTANTANEOUSLY heal any person of any affliction at any time. If all the gifts are still active, why is no one doing that?

Tam implied that anyone who doesn't agree with her on tongues is basically a lazy ignoramus. As one who has spent MANY hours studying the relevant texts and reading opinions on both sides before coming to the conclusion that tongues and the other sign gifts were temporary things whose time has long past, and who has made long posts crammed with Bible references about the subject on this board, I naturally resent that and think an apology is in order.
As a follower of Jesus Christ, of course, I also forgive her.

I also think it was rather unbecoming of you to jump on me instead of the one who made such an obviously false and insulting statement about others. But I forgive you too.

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by DHK:
"That which is perfect" is in the neuter gender in the Greek.
Christ is masculine.
So the answer is quite obvious.
"That which is perfect" refers to the Bible.
DHK

DHK.......have you looked up all the different ways perfect is spelled in the greek text in the strongs dictionary? Some of the 10 ways it is spelled, look masculine while some look feminine. How do you know you have the right one? To me wouldn't one have to see the original greek text of that scripture to dicern what Paul ment?

BTW, I found this commentary by Robert W. Yarbrough. No where did I see what your talking about.
--------------------------------------------------
Christ. The New Testament is aware that Jesus Christ was sinless (John 8:46; Heb 4:15; 7:26). It speaks of him being "perfect, " however, only in the Book of Hebrews. God made Christ "perfect through suffering" so that he could bring "many sons to glory" (2:10). "Once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him" (5:9). Paul surely refers in part to Christ when he says that "when perfection comes, the imperfect [lit. that which is partial] disappears" (1 Cor 13:10). The New Testament does not belabor the perfection of the Son of God, perhaps because the divine nature (and therefore perfection) of someone who forgave sins, raised the dead, and ascended to the right hand of God seemed to make the point obvious enough.
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you,
Music4Him

 

[DHK]

teleioV teleios tel'-i-os
from 5056; complete (in various applications of
labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.);
neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, perfect.

STRONG'S

 

[music4Him]

DHK, What about
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4137 in the strongs "pleroo"(1)to fill, make complete
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THE NEW STRONG'S COMPLEATE DICTIONARY of BIBLE WORDS