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Featured The breath of God...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by awaken, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Then stop doing it.

    I have explained several times the exceptions. Those are the facts. All believers receive the HS baptism when they believe, not later and not after they have to seek it. That is false doctrine.
     
  2. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Well, NOWHERE in sciptures does it tell us to handle snakes! But it does show how the Holy Spirit was received, both in and upon!
     
    #102 awaken, Mar 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2013
  3. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    I gave the facts of the unusual, one-time, exceptional circumstances that are the scriptural truth that you are either too dimwitted or obstinate to accept; thus, you are unteachable.
     
  4. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    AGAIN....THe facts you claim are your interpretation! Not what is plain in scripture! Seek and you will find! I asked just like scriptures teach us to do! Ask the Father for the Holy Spirit! He first has to be your father/born again/indwelt before you ask for the Holy Spirit/upon/power.
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Then why do you keep ignoring it?
     
  6. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Silly! I could turn that around and say the same for you..but that would not settle this! You have not proven anything about it being a one time event! Does it say it only happens one time this way and we will change it for everyone else? No, it does not! So you are making an assumption! The examples are for our teaching.
     
  7. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    I will repeat what I said earlier! The scriptures I do not ignore..it is your interpretation to satisfy your theory that I ignore!
     
  8. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Facts are facts. Each instance of the HS being delayed was a special, one-time exceptional circumstance with the reasons being easily understood by anyone willing to do so. You are not. No believer has to ask for the HS. Every believer is baptized by the HS and receives the HS upon coming to faith. It is not a later, separated, second blessing. That is false doctrine.
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Are you suggesting that Thomas is not born again, and that God the Father is not his Father?
     
  10. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    There was a first time that the Gospel was received by non-Jews. This was a one-time, exceptional circumstance. Your willful ignorance and stubbornness is going to get you into trouble. Mark my words on this and when it happens, remember what I said. I have seen it happen to many people.
     
  11. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    If I ever post a theory, I'll let you know.
     
  12. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Believe it or not, I saw this accusation made against someone very close to me just because she didn't speak in tongues. See, this is where the false Charismatic doctrine leads.
     
  13. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)

    If you are a Christian, a child of God, then you can ask your Father for the Holy Spirit. First you must be saved (at which point God becomes your heavenly Father - see John 1:12-13, Galatians 3:26, and 4:4-7), then you can ask for the Holy Spirit. When we become saved we automatically receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, we don't have to ask for Him! Yet Jesus says that God will give the gift of the Holy Spirit to those who ask for it. This gift, therefore, is not salvation (because we do not become saved by asking God for the Holy Spirit), but instead this gift is what the Bible calls the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit for receiving spiritual empowerment:
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Some years ago, I dared to tell a Charismatic that I didn't believe tongues was of God, nor would I ever attempt to speak in them. He became very angry, and then tried to cast a demon out of me! :laugh:
     
  15. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    How did you come with yet another assumption on your part?
     
  16. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    I have had a lot of experience with the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches, through my studies and also personal experience.

    They take a couple of exceptional circumstances and try to make these the norm for every Christian believer, making people believe they are lacking in something, making them uncertain, making them second-class Christians and inferior. They build entire denominations and yes, cults, on these exceptional circumstances. Just look at all the varieties of this movement, all claiming their doctrines and practices are inspire by the Holy Spirit! Anybody who can't recognize that movements like the Brownsville assembly are Satanic, cultic nutcases needs to have his/her head examined.
     
  17. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    THis is where I differ! I do not believe that!

    We can recognize Jesus' true disciples by their "fruit." These are the things that we are told to look for as evidence that a person has received salvation. The Bible never tells us to look for supernatural manifestations as evidence of anyone's salvation.
     
  18. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    You were lucky that one didn't jump out of him and onto you! :eek:
     
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    At first I thought you were speaking directly to him, and you still might have been. But I re-read your post and you may have been using an "impersonal you." I can't tell. Maybe you can clarify that.

    If Thomas is a Christian....
    First he must be saved...
     
  20. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    I have never made a claim of anyone being second class!
     
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